Can Bitcoins Price be manipulated like Gold is? - page 2.

Daniel91

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Quote from: Amph on July 25, 2015, 03:00:07 AM

yes, and in a strong and more fierce way, than gold, gold manipulation don't happen overnight like with bitcoin, when you suddenly see the price changing from 10-to 20 or more %, with gold this happen in a long time

much less destructive than that of bitcoin, you have time to respond to it, to not lose big money

In normal time this is true but when we have a major upheaval in world stock markets the value of gold and shares can really change a lot just in a few hours.
I have some experience in Forex and I can tell you that even now the value of crude oil and gold changing a lot, even more than value of bitcoin.
Can Bitcoins Price be manipulated like Gold is?
In order to give a clear answer to this question we should know how much bitcoin have the largest investors.
Large investors can manipulate anything, it is only a matter of interest and expected profit.

Amph

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yes, and in a strong and more fierce way, than gold, gold manipulation don't happen overnight like with bitcoin, when you suddenly see the price changing from 10-to 20 or more %, with gold this happen in a long time

much less destructive than that of bitcoin, you have time to respond to it, to not lose big money

I E

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Quote from: maku on July 25, 2015, 01:54:47 AM

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 25, 2015, 01:31:36 AM

Quote from: jbrnt on July 24, 2015, 11:24:58 PM

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone
http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

This is the notion of using the blockchain technology without bitcoin. I do not think it has to be a scam. Central banks could do with a more transparent and efficient ledger to the bank reserve requirements.

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Bitcoin's market cap is only $4 billion. The top banks and hedge fund firms manages an estimate of $10 trillion. They can manipulate bitcoin like a puppet. There is no doubt what they can do, if they want to do it.

How with a ton of fiat alone could you manipulate Bitcoin apart from inflating the price? If they bought tons of coins pushing the price to the moon people would take big gains and likely pump them straight back in, all it would do is raise the VOL.

Well, it is quite simple you can bought small amount of bitcoin on different exchanges, of course not instant but over time. When you achieve that you can dump these coins at once causing huge panic.

Well in my opinion it would almost be easier to rise the price with manipulation comparing to decreasing the value.

maku

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Quote from: nextgencoin on July 25, 2015, 01:31:36 AM

Quote from: jbrnt on July 24, 2015, 11:24:58 PM

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone
http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

This is the notion of using the blockchain technology without bitcoin. I do not think it has to be a scam. Central banks could do with a more transparent and efficient ledger to the bank reserve requirements.

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Bitcoin's market cap is only $4 billion. The top banks and hedge fund firms manages an estimate of $10 trillion. They can manipulate bitcoin like a puppet. There is no doubt what they can do, if they want to do it.

How with a ton of fiat alone could you manipulate Bitcoin apart from inflating the price? If they bought tons of coins pushing the price to the moon people would take big gains and likely pump them straight back in, all it would do is raise the VOL.

Well, it is quite simple you can buy small amount of bitcoin on different exchanges(or maybe from/through middlemen), of course not instant but over time.
When you achieve that you can dump these coins at once causing huge panic and price drop. Then you can buy cheaper.

nextgencoin

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Quote from: jbrnt on July 24, 2015, 11:24:58 PM

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone
http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

This is the notion of using the blockchain technology without bitcoin. I do not think it has to be a scam. Central banks could do with a more transparent and efficient ledger to the bank reserve requirements.

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Bitcoin's market cap is only $4 billion. The top banks and hedge fund firms manages an estimate of $10 trillion. They can manipulate bitcoin like a puppet. There is no doubt what they can do, if they want to do it.

How with a ton of fiat alone could you manipulate Bitcoin apart from inflating the price? If they bought tons of coins pushing the price to the moon people would take big gains and likely pump them straight back in, all it would do is raise the VOL.

btcdealer

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Absolutely the price of bitcoins can be manipulated like gold because there was a time when bitcoin were labled as $1000 in the beginning and now they are priced at $284 and are still changing.... Lips sealed

electerium

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It is right now and has been for the past 2 years.

Until the ETF kicks off and/or a massive adoption event by either banks or people, bitcoin is laughably illiquid. On orderbooks today, there is probably 50k BTC buyable up to 100% of its current price. You could literally clear the entire world's order book for 1 hour with little coordinated effort for 30-40m USD. Conversely, because of sites that allow leverage and futures, consider how little BTC or USD you would need to begin pushing the price around. Someone with as little as 1m USD or BTC equiv could push BTC's price +/- 5% during off hours with literally zero effort or sophistication involved.

fake a few screenshots about OK coin, throw it on reddit. have a few sock accounts "confirm"

start dumping 1-3k btc on finex and finish off on btc-e. buy on the way back up

something so stupid and simple as that could cause a +/- 10% swing at current prices TODAY.

Holliday

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Holliday on July 24, 2015, 11:30:20 PM

Bitcoin is far easier to take possession of when compared to gold.

Honestly this is the only scary thing, the only true reason we need the price to increase is that by the time the banks get scared it is too expensive for them to fuck it up. I somewhat see price as a weird way of securing the network form banks.

What are you talking about?

Gold is easy to manipulate because investors do not take possession of their actual gold. They own paper gold.

Paper bitcoins does not make as much sense, because investors can very easily take possession of their actual bitcoins. In fact, any who do not are morons. See sig for more details.

Holliday

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Bitcoin is far easier to take possession of when compared to gold.

jbrnt

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Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone
http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

This is the notion of using the blockchain technology without bitcoin. I do not think it has to be a scam. Central banks could do with a more transparent and efficient ledger to the bank reserve requirements.

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Bitcoin's market cap is only $4 billion. The top banks and hedge fund firms manages an estimate of $10 trillion. They can manipulate bitcoin like a puppet. There is no doubt what they can do, if they want to do it.

nextgencoin

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My point is more about exotic deriveratives. I mean the price of Gold is not I believe a true market picture but one based on paper gold which people can multiple as much as they want it seems. Bitcoin itself can't I believe be manipulated downward BUT a deriverative could be dumped at various times to make it seem like a genuine Bitcoin dump is happening....possible?

Plus, when I say manipulation I'm talking about suppression not increasing the price.

This is a massively important question cause Bitcoin has as much chance of being a major currency as a gold has ie none....IF the central banks can print digital coins and suppress the price of bitcoin. If they can't then any system they tried would probably fail....unless they simply said Bitcoin is illegal but their currency isn't. Sadly quite a possible outcome.

Dire

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Crypto-Games.net: DICE and SLOT

Quote from: WhatsBitcoin on July 24, 2015, 10:39:00 PM

Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone, business as usual.

http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

But I thought many if they did this would prefer Bitcoin as they would see the price rising over time. BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Much easier I imagine Embarrassed

This. Less people holding and using it, equals less money needed to manipulate its price. It's done all the time on alt coins, just depends on the market cap. The higher the market cap, the harder it is to manipulate the price directly. This is why Litecoin had a large spike a short while back.

WhatsBitcoin

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Quote from: nextgencoin on July 24, 2015, 09:29:58 PM

I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone, business as usual.

http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

But I thought many if they did this would prefer Bitcoin as they would see the price rising over time. BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Much easier I imagine Embarrassed

edric

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I have a similar question. Clearly the central banks don't seem to mind the idea of digital money catching on, but like this article suggests they seem intent on centralizing it. It would not be that expensive to execute a 51% attack on the bitcoin network for a large group of banks and destroy it, so couldn't someone do this as a way to devalue bitcoin? When and will they do that? What other ways could they use to force people into a centralized cryptocurrency like the one posted above?

nextgencoin

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I saw this about central banks sniffing around Bitcoin to make a Frankenstein coin they can use to expand and scam everyone, business as usual.

http://www.coindesk.com/deloitte-central-bank-cryptocurrency/

But I thought many if they did this would prefer Bitcoin as they would see the price rising over time. BUT it made me wonder if you had enough resources they could hold the price of Bitcoin down like gold? I mean through deriveratives of BItcoin, not the actual coin. Could it be surpressed like gold?

Topic: Can Bitcoins Price be manipulated like Gold is? - page 2. (Read 1854 times)