Topic: Can CBDC users lose control of their money? - page 4. (Read 1005 times)

By the way, with the global implementation of CBDC, cryptocurrency may get a second chance. It is not a secret that states are going to use smart contracts, which will prescribe where a person can spend his CBDCs, and access to them can be blocked due to low social rating. Then the blocked person will have no other choice but to use cryptocurrencies to somehow survive

Any online monetary system these days are subject to scammers and hackers irrespective of the kind of KYC verification or security protocol involved. It's just the way it is. We are only still successfully using decentralized and centralized because to some extent, majority of the users are getting more aware and agencies have upgraded to track down criminals who launder money or hack the users account.

For CBDC users losing control, I hardly doubt that, because as the decentralized crypto currency network has been successful in implementation and execution, and not being controlled by any government, it would be a shame to the government of nations with CBDC initiative to fail. It wouldn't tell well.
CBDC is controlled by the central banks, and other monetary agencies which keep a 24hr open eye, inorder to monitor its growth and usership. The app may experience glitches from network interruptions, but I doubt it may be due to congestion. Any one can walk into the bank and request assistant also, if they got unexplained deductions and it would be resolved.
I don't think CBDC users can lose control of their money, because it is just a digital version of the bank account and it is a legal tender, which is strictly regulated.

Yeah, it seems like the decisions already have been made and they're dosing the news slowly so everyone can ease into the thought that it'll happen eventually.
What I wonder is if we'll see each individual country (with sovereign currency) being responsible for running and maintaining the CBDC systems, or will we see some central, global institution running the 'core' of it, with each country having some admin privileges to issue/burn its own coins.
We also know that anything centrally planned, which is not subject to free market scrutiny, tends to not function very well or even fail miserably, so we might experience some turbulent times in the not-so-far future.

Unfortunately, I believe that the issue of CBDC implementation has already been resolved at a high level. The state is doing everything to completely control the population. The digital concentration camp is getting closer (and in China it is already in full swing). Soon we will be expecting CBDC all over the world.

Sending Fiat digitally is everything that CBDC has to offer, users losing control of their money is less of my worry about this currency, it's about the users freedom that I care more about, are we going to keep our hard earned money just to ourselves without the central authorities wanting to know our worth? Or wanting to know what we use our money to purchase and where or who we send money to? This is my biggest concern about CBDC and it's why I won't even want to get involved in using CBDC.

CBDC is just a digital fiat currency and not cryptocurrency, which means that the government are in charge of this monetary system and the implementation of it policies, there's nothing different from the traditional currency we use with the commercial banks since the financial institutions were still the ones in charge of CBDC and the government coordinate them all, every risk involved with fiat are also applicable to CBDC, they can be hacked, controlled by government, make deductions from your account in form of charges, take you through KYC prices, intrude your privacy, inflate your transaction fees and track you down completely.

Not too many people will realize that CBDC will control them more than the benefits it brings as the government claims.  most only bitcoin investors oppose this as they know that CBDC is a serious invasion of privacy.  As for ordinary citizens, they will only know how to obey the orders given by the government.  but like it or not, the CBDC will definitely be implemented, and we will have no way of stopping it because we can't go against the government. they don't need your vote to launch CBDC, they will launch it and oblige you to use it.

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes

CBDC users can't lose control of their money because you can't lose what you don't have.

--Knight Hider

 

There you go again frankandbeans. Spreading misinformation in a subtle way. Before you gaslight everyone into believing that Liquid/Lightning = Evil CBDC Supporting Protocol, let's make it clear that they are open source code for protocols that don't need any permission to be used how they want.


"Your money" in a CBDC system will not actually be your money. It's the absolute opposite of what Bitcoin is trying to be. It may be more efficient, more convenient and user-friendly, but it's not actual money. It's a mere token.

It might be good to have and use to live in the real world. But always HODL Bitcoin as a fall back.

A bad thing doesn't become good if someone covers it with goods and stuff that makes it look good, that is simply just a presentation and the thing being presented might not be what it is being presented as. Similarly, no matter how much they say it is for the benefit of people, they might create articles, and diagrams, try and explain everything to people trying to convince them that it is just like cryptocurrencies and they should use it, that wouldn't change anything.

A CBDC is nothing more than a digital fiat, it is not decentralized, and it doesn't work independently without anyone having any access to the transactions and balances and everything of everyone utilizing it. So, don't just listen to what says, simply understand that a CBDC is only to control the finances of people even more than before.

you might want to actually look at the chinese cbdc and not take some blog post opinion of it
the PBOC do not monitor the citizens money much like the US treasury does not monitor US FIAT of citizens
instead it delegates payment services(banks) to do the customer monitoring and registration and reporting.. much the same as the american fiat system of today

and before you refer me to many crap blog sites. ill inform you of many mis conceptions
a. china is not a one bank currency. they have many many payment services.
b. you dont need to register your life history and become a citizen to get an account.
c. the chinese government have not been "watching everything"

heres a trick for you to try. go to any travel agent/money exchange service people use for vacations and ask for some chinese yuan..
note that you do not have to become a chinese citizen and have biometrics and bloodtests and give social security details over to get yuan

my previous post is actually using the e-cny example. which is where commercial services like ali-pay, wepay, tencent and other who do the customer management side.

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

Why do you resent it so much?! What's wrong with this place?
Enter the PIN code, NFC, swipe the magnetic tape through the terminal, put a fingerprint, scan the "face card" or retina - it's just a method of IDENTIFICATION, and confirmation of the payer at the cash register to the card from which the money will be withdrawn !
It's just a technology, a service. And no infringement on your eye or honor
Frankly speaking - I don't understand your indignation at all !
With such success it is possible to resent the data in the passport - photo, sex, date of birth and citizenship. But I hope there are no problems with it ?

Yes they can, do not listen to anyone who says otherwise because it is centralized and that means the central owners could end up withdrawing all of the money, it will have that function no matter what, or even reverse the whole chain as well if they want to.

People who go into this and buy into this should realize that they are trusting the creators of CBDC to protect their money as well, so if anything happens that would be because they trusted the wrong people. I know that's a sad thing to hear but the same is going on with the current stablecoins as well. There are tens of billions trusted into USDT team, tether company and if they do something wrong and lose your money then it's gone, you can't take it back and that's horrible to hear but true.

CBDC is actually fiat but in digital form controlled by the central government, what do we expect from a centralized system that is very vulnerable like this?

because it is centralized, meaning that the central bank can manage their products according to their wishes. Not even just freeze or unfreeze accounts, they can even track where the money is used, for what, and many other things, meaning that here you have no privacy for what you use. Even from this transaction data, the government can collect a lot of data that they can use for various purposes or they can sell it to third parties, who knows?

so is this CBDC better than fiat? of course not, because it only offers convenience, but for fiat privacy it still offers better privacy for various user transactions. And is it much better compared to cryptocurrencies? of course not, because cryptocurrencies are much better compared to CBDC and fiat.

funny part is if you want to look at many CBDC prototypes you can. the BIS and hyperledger have full examples
heck even china has released documentation about how their e-cny works

the easiest comparisons of many CBDB (mostly those bridged to the BIS m-bridge) are for want of a better comparison.. a liquid chain with a ln subnetwork (yes its no surprise many CBDC are using blockstream prototypes)

the liquid network is the federated proof of signature chain where funds are materialised by the fed and about a dozen payment processors(pboc central bank+ dozen commercial banks/payment services) that agree on new money creation.. and then having signed proof of creation to use on child transactions..
these signed transactions become the funding tx(parent) of the LN channel routes between the commercial banks
and then below that each commercial bank then create a sub channel(micropayment channels) give inbound balance to bank customers

there are usually 3 levels of sub channels.
a. no KYC, inbound balances of <$1k max channel liquidity (months labour max)
b. basic KYC, inbound balances of >$1kmin <$150k max channel liquidity (middle income/small business)
c. full KYC, inbound balances of >$150k min channel liquidity (rich/large business)

the (a) accounts are limited to a max amount at any one time. if you want to play with more balance. upgrade to the next level which requires KYC
the (a) is meant to be for basic 'cash' stuff like virtual visa's giftcards and other low priority stuff. where by those wanting savings accounts and t put wages into would ned a higher level account, the amount of the no KYC inbound balance is so low that they dont care about the administration and monitoring for stuff like terrorism becasue its small amounts so they just dont bother

even chinas e-cny work like this

where the PBOC(chinas central bank) do not see the daily transfers of any(a,b or c) of the channel routing upfront/live. its upto the commercial banks(routers) to monitor, log and report suspicious behaviour which is similar to the logging and reporting banks today have to do with fiat

the only reason their system is functionally working better than blockstreams LN is that there is only 12 hubs(factory channels) with the liquidity management. with known control/limits on liquidity, funding and payment routing control

His assessement is on point, and it has been happening in the cryptocurrency world for years. A "blockchain" without Proof Of Work as a consensus and a security mechanism is not an actual blockchain. A real blockchain should also be immutable. If there's a centralized authority deciding which coins get burned or which of them get frozen, then perhaps they should consider not wasting their time on "blockchain" and use a centralized database.


The "convenience" part is not what's truly concerning about CBDCs. It's the fact that there's a central authority somewhere that could censor you from using the system. It could be a dangerously tyrannical tool - the opposite of Bitcoin's ethos.

I haven't taken a look at the source code, going by Pedro Magalhães assessment:

Blockchain's meant to be utilized as a trustless system IMO but all Brazil's done here is centralize the system with this alleged protocol. Under no circumstances should coins be burned from addresses nor should they be frozen. Assume it'll be abused by the government to compel compliance from their constituency and assume they'll try and market this as a cryptocurrency adjacent by throwing around the word "blockchain"

Yes, it’s laziness and stupidity, it’s not difficult to guess that under this “convenience” there is total control over every step, every cent spent. Retinal scanning discouraged me in general, it's really stupid, but I see that it's even fun for buyers to pay in this way, this is a bad sign, the majority will accept all the innovations and be happy about it, and no one will think about the consequences until it's too late. I don’t know, any step against the state will endanger their finances, went out to some kind of protest, scan the retina from a drone and block all the money in the account. It may sound a little paranoid, but this is just one example.