Can crypto gambling be provably fair to regulators? - page 2.

kawetsriyanto

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 21, 2020, 08:17:29 AM

~~ casinos are traditionally a good spot for money laundering, so the government needs to be sure that the house doesn't create fake winnings for some players. ~~

I don't want to be pessimistic but I'm not sure the government can do this. In what way the government can ensure people that they guarantee the real winning in a match (not fake winning)? Even the government can make a certain regulation, but it can be manipulated as it is totally the authority of the gambling sites (company). It is the trust-based between the gamblers and gambling sites (company), people will leave them if they know the gambling sites (company) are cheating. And I think the gamblers now are quite smart. Cheesy

Heisenberg_Hunter

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Casinos which are primarily based on accepting cryptos doesn't rely on the regulation and so does the users using them up. But rather the reputation of the site are considered to an extent. Some of them do have open source code which does prove that the casino is running a provably fair site and they aren't scamming the players.

If the outcome of a particular bet is to be known to the gambler or verifying of such an instance by running up a script, it would violate the gambler user agreement with the casino and vice versa. I rely on the trustworthy casinos like FJ, Cryptogames, Freebitco for my rolls and the probability of themselves scamming is of utmost null.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: el kaka22 on March 31, 2020, 12:05:44 PM

Provably fair is provably fair, there is no reason to check anything else, even if casino itself creates a user themselves and gamble they do not hold any advantage that is not in the gamblers itself, they are risking as much as other gamblers. The only thing they can actually get out of creating some gamblers themselves (so faking the user number) would be marketing, if you have hundreds of people playing on your website at all times others will think you are cool and will join as well and you will have organic 100+ instead. That is literally the only thing I can think of right now.

There could also be competitions of wagering where they fake numbers and just lose to themselves to get the win and not pay to others. However, there is no stealing investors money by gambling, you lose equally at all times even if you are the house making a new gambler.

+1 to this!

Once your gambling site had been approved then it does signify that it already complied with the rules this is a no-joke business if we do talk on expense or on how big it is.
Its just too dumb for you to mind on doing shady acts to make money on that particular time and of course you will surely think about long term aspects.
I agree that increasing or faking out numbers is one of market strategy that been commonly used and im not surprised with that one.

semobo

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Fiat based gambling sites need to be audited well to avoid money laundering but giving the rights to third party doesn't look great idea to be honest.When crypto gambling sites claims that they are provably fair means they are having nothing to cheat so verifying the random bets will be enough to check their legitimacy.

el kaka22

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Provably fair is provably fair, there is no reason to check anything else, even if casino itself creates a user themselves and gamble they do not hold any advantage that is not in the gamblers itself, they are risking as much as other gamblers. The only thing they can actually get out of creating some gamblers themselves (so faking the user number) would be marketing, if you have hundreds of people playing on your website at all times others will think you are cool and will join as well and you will have organic 100+ instead. That is literally the only thing I can think of right now.

There could also be competitions of wagering where they fake numbers and just lose to themselves to get the win and not pay to others. However, there is no stealing investors money by gambling, you lose equally at all times even if you are the house making a new gambler.

thekrakennnm

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In short, it can once crypto itself becomes well-regulated there. Until then not likely we'll see legit and fair crypto gambling to regulators.

Sanitough

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Quote from: Russlenat on March 31, 2020, 07:36:29 AM

Quote from: Sanitough on March 31, 2020, 07:26:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We'll i dont think there's no need for that as long as it follows the gambling rules and requirements with a feature of provably fair to be trustworthy. Then there's no need for another party to interfere, as you know provably fair ensure the players winning percentage wont be tampered by the online casino itself. Just be sure to only play gambling games to sites that has good feedback and also verified.

When a casino is regulated, regulators will ensure they can't cheat against its gamblers, that's the first priority, and 2nd is they can't cheat against the government as an everyone single profit the site will earn, the government is entitled with a certain percentage as tax.

I thought their firs priority is the tax.. lol..

Tax is the lifeblood so that should be, but anyway that is not important, what's important is the site will comply with the rules so they will be able to continue their business and continue to make profit as well, of course if they choose to cheat, they can certainly do that, but that's their call as they know the risk and the consequence when they get caught, not only they destroy their reputation, they could also go to jail.

They will prioritize the safety of the gamblers as that is the recipe for them to continue collecting taxes, if the site keeps its good reputation, they will continue to be profitable and they will also continue to pay the taxes due to the government.

bitcoinst

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A lot of difficulties will be associated with the fact that in different countries cryptocurrency has a completely different legal status.
In some countries, this status has not yet been determined what to take cryptocurrency out of state control, which means it can also be used to launder money through a casino.

CaVO32

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Quote from: Russlenat on March 31, 2020, 07:36:29 AM

Quote from: Sanitough on March 31, 2020, 07:26:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We'll i dont think there's no need for that as long as it follows the gambling rules and requirements with a feature of provably fair to be trustworthy. Then there's no need for another party to interfere, as you know provably fair ensure the players winning percentage wont be tampered by the online casino itself. Just be sure to only play gambling games to sites that has good feedback and also verified.

When a casino is regulated, regulators will ensure they can't cheat against its gamblers, that's the first priority, and 2nd is they can't cheat against the government as an everyone single profit the site will earn, the government is entitled with a certain percentage as tax.

I thought their firs priority is the tax.. lol..

Tax is the lifeblood so that should be, but anyway that is not important, what's important is the site will comply with the rules so they will be able to continue their business and continue to make profit as well, of course if they choose to cheat, they can certainly do that, but that's their call as they know the risk and the consequence when they get caught, not only they destroy their reputation, they could also go to jail.

I think there are some casinos that are doing that, the backdoor per se. Do you think all casinos are honest to the core and following all the rules and regulations? and the provable fairness, I guess it is the responsibility of the casino itself. maybe the government rep will randomly check but it will not be on a regular basis. though I don't have the knowledge about the govt checklist on how they check legal casinos but i guess they will not be so strict if the casino has already acquired gambling license.

Botnake

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Quote from: mu_enrico on March 31, 2020, 07:45:10 AM

A few ideas:
- The government manages server seed hash;
- Use future block hash, for example Bitcoin block hash (only applicable for some games);
- Compliance with KYC and AML (regulated).

Well, if we talking about regulators, the outcome won't be fun.

I am not sure the government will go technical on just approving the license, they may have an idea about it but they will only be limited to monitoring and implementing sanction for violators. Managing would be the job of the gambling site, they are responsible for their actions, therefore they need to comply everything.

Quote

Compliance with KYC and AML (regulated)

This is given, we can expect the site will implement this and gambling would not be as easy as today.

mu_enrico

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A few ideas:
- The government manages server seed hash;
- Use future block hash, for example Bitcoin block hash (only applicable for some games);
- Compliance with KYC and AML (regulated).

Well, if we talking about regulators, the outcome won't be fun.

Russlenat

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Quote from: Sanitough on March 31, 2020, 07:26:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

We'll i dont think there's no need for that as long as it follows the gambling rules and requirements with a feature of provably fair to be trustworthy. Then there's no need for another party to interfere, as you know provably fair ensure the players winning percentage wont be tampered by the online casino itself. Just be sure to only play gambling games to sites that has good feedback and also verified.

When a casino is regulated, regulators will ensure they can't cheat against its gamblers, that's the first priority, and 2nd is they can't cheat against the government as an everyone single profit the site will earn, the government is entitled with a certain percentage as tax.

I thought their firs priority is the tax.. lol..

Tax is the lifeblood so that should be, but anyway that is not important, what's important is the site will comply with the rules so they will be able to continue their business and continue to make profit as well, of course if they choose to cheat, they can certainly do that, but that's their call as they know the risk and the consequence when they get caught, not only they destroy their reputation, they could also go to jail.

Sanitough

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Quote from: ?? on ??

We'll i dont think there's no need for that as long as it follows the gambling rules and requirements with a feature of provably fair to be trustworthy. Then there's no need for another party to interfere, as you know provably fair ensure the players winning percentage wont be tampered by the online casino itself. Just be sure to only play gambling games to sites that has good feedback and also verified.

When a casino is regulated, regulators will ensure they can't cheat against its gamblers, that's the first priority, and 2nd is they can't cheat against the government as an everyone single profit the site will earn, the government is entitled with a certain percentage as tax.

Latviand

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Quote from: imstillthebest on March 31, 2020, 01:28:20 AM

Quote from: ralle14 on March 29, 2020, 07:18:44 PM

Yes, its possible I remember hearing a similar discussion in bustabit or bustadice chat room (forgot which one) and they explained this kind of provably fair to one of their users that was curious. I think you can also find this topic being discussed in their main thread. There's positives and negatives to it but still possible afaik.

the what ? the verfication of bets ? or as known as provaly fair system ? and what is its negative side ? i dont think it has but i can only say that its a good idea that they implement such system because this is for their users to verify if the site is legit or not .

Verification of users are also important so it is necessary to implement it in all of the gambling casinos and site as people are really good at fooling people. Hackers should be detected if it entered a certain gambling platform, manipulator are the one who's very affected. Verification of bets, identity, and etc., of the customers should be strict so that fairness in gambling will stay in its casino. Working hard regulator manages to become more fair when it comes on giving service and managing our casinos so that all of the customers will also be comfortable and enjoyable.

Quote from: imstillthebest on March 31, 2020, 01:28:20 AM

online gamber will be more confident if a platform is provably fair than compare to not . the topic is also on other gaambling forums and as well here too . there are explanations that have been laid out if how those stuffs work .

It is perfect for this season as you can't go outside to gamble and many of us prefers using online gambling, customers online will enjoy and be satisfied as this gambling casino is very fair and it value customers rights to have a safer gambling experience. Everyone wants comfort while playing with their money so that gambling casinos should verify its customer so that scammers will not enter their platform. We don't understand the effort of the regulator because we don't see what's happening inside the gambling platform, the thing they make is not that easy to do most especially when you're in a wide and popular gambling platform.

michellee

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I think maybe that is work in the land-based casino because the government can control the casino by requiring the owners to send the report to the government. The government will know if the casino cheats them and use the casino for money laundering. But I don't think that will easy if it's applying in the online casino because every owner of the gambling site will stay anonymous, and only a few people will know about them. It is what I am thinking so far because I see that on every website, it is difficult to know who the owner is.

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Quote from: AniviaBtc on March 31, 2020, 03:59:09 AM

Yes, they should be fair because regulators did their part as they are doing their best just to manage the platform or casino that most of us are using. Cheating in gambling must be prohibited and should not be tolerated so that those people who will scam and hack the casino will face the consequences of that. Most of the people who use hacks are in a gambling section where crypto are being used, they see that there is more money in crypto than in gambling casino who only use fiat currency. Sadly, our regulators are still having a hard time fixing the problems in a certain gambling casino as it is not easy to handle it. That's true that license is essential so that the gambling casino is supported by the government. It is not that hard to have the license aifthe gambling casino is legit and follow some standard or they fulfill the requirements that is needed.

You guys are funny. You want regulators to help make casinos fair? We have crypto gambling and provably fair concepts which already mean we can prove for ourselves the game outcomes are fair. Regulators can't do much. They can force audits, and then we can get certifications from third parties but how do we know for ourselves that things are fair? Only by provably fair algorithms!

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Quote from: Botnake on March 29, 2020, 07:54:46 AM

They have to because if they cheat, they'll face the consequences, when a gambling site applies for a license, it's not the gambling site that will dictate on the terms, its the government, and therefore gambling sites has to follow the requirements in order for them to pass and will be granted a license.

if they cheap the government in any way, that's called a violation of the law, and there is a corresponding punishment on that, depending on how serious the case is against the gambling site.

Yes, they should be fair because regulators did their part as they are doing their best just to manage the platform or casino that most of us are using. Cheating in gambling must be prohibited and should not be tolerated so that those people who will scam and hack the casino will face the consequences of that. Most of the people who use hacks are in a gambling section where crypto are being used, they see that there is more money in crypto than in gambling casino who only use fiat currency. Sadly, our regulators are still having a hard time fixing the problems in a certain gambling casino as it is not easy to handle it. That's true that license is essential so that the gambling casino is supported by the government. It is not that hard to have the license aifthe gambling casino is legit and follow some standard or they fulfill the requirements that is needed.

avikz

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 21, 2020, 08:17:29 AM

For a long time I was thinking that [fiat] online casinos are required to run licensed software just to ensure the players that they don't cheat, but then I understood that there's another side to it - casinos are traditionally a good spot for money laundering, so the government needs to be sure that the house doesn't create fake winnings for some players. As you know, the provably fair system guarantees that neither the player nor the house cheat, but when both the player and the house are the same entity, they know the result of the bet before it is made and can alter it.

Do you think it's possible to create a system where a third party can verify that the outcome of the bet wasn't known to any of the parties ahead of the time?

It's only possible if the offline casinos remove their slot machines and replace them with computer systems connected to one server. The physical slot machines can't be connected to a single network so desktop computers will be needed there. It will be very similar to the online casinos that we have today. Imagine the website as a physical casino floor where 10 computers are given to play Roulette and another 10 computers are given for blackjack and another 10 for Plinko. All of these systems are connected to a central server which ensures that the games are provably fair.

That doesn't look much feasible because majority of the players visit physical casinos for experience and relaxation. If this is implemented, casino floors will look more like a cyber cafe!

imstillthebest

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Quote from: ralle14 on March 29, 2020, 07:18:44 PM

Yes, its possible I remember hearing a similar discussion in bustabit or bustadice chat room (forgot which one) and they explained this kind of provably fair to one of their users that was curious. I think you can also find this topic being discussed in their main thread. There's positives and negatives to it but still possible afaik.

the what ? the verfication of bets ? or as known as provaly fair system ? and what is its negative side ? i dont think it has but i can only say that its a good idea that they implement such system because this is for their users to verify if the site is legit or not .

online gamber will be more confident if a platform is provably fair than compare to not . the topic is also on other gaambling forums and as well here too . there are explanations that have been laid out if how those stuffs work .

ralle14

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Yes, its possible I remember hearing a similar discussion in bustabit or bustadice chat room (forgot which one) and they explained this kind of provably fair to one of their users that was curious. I think you can also find this topic being discussed in their main thread. There's positives and negatives to it but still possible afaik.

Topic: Can crypto gambling be provably fair to regulators? - page 2. (Read 525 times)