Topic: Can Greece adopt Bitcoin? The answer is No - page 2. (Read 3905 times)

Well said, I think Greek people prefer the first solution like you do. Probably they know nothing about Bitcoin, so it's time to introduce Bitcoin to Greek people. Maybe they can use Bitcoin(or nationally created GreekCoin) instead of Euro in the future

Yeah, right. And the union benefits that bankrupted Detroit were "voluntary" contracts between the employer and the employees too.


Whatever. My point is that the problem arose because the government(s) who ruled the country since it became a member of the Eurozone till the financial crisis took on a lot of debt and wasted the money (like governments are wont to do), mostly on socialist idiocies and welfare, instead of letting the private business develop.


In case you don't know, so were the Nazis. The name is an abbreviation for "Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei", which means "national socialist workers' party of Germany". Left or right, socialism always ends in a dictatorship, eventually. It believes in "distribution of wealth" (i.e., theft), which cannot be accepted voluntarily by those from whom the wealth is taken, so a legal/political/military system is necessary to beat them into submission.

Oh, and I don't live in the USA. Thank goodness. It's bad enough here; I have no need for it to be even worse.

it can and should.
if they adopt bitcoin their government will not be able to continue borrowing money with zero interest rate and will have to cut spending, allowing the free market to bring prosperity back.

i don't think greece will adopt bitcoin, but we can get positive news from russia or india about bitcoins
seems like they are getting interested in bitcoin

You are wrong in something and i think is not your fault but the propoganda from global financial system about Greece and Greek people.
First the 14 salary is a contract between employer and company to keep every month some money from employer salary to give all of them in specific time of the year like christmas . Is not a gift from state to the employers.
Second the several government that you say is two political parties like i write before. They rule Greece for half century,
And the last Syriza is a traditional europe left political party that for someone who live in USA is difficult to understand. The left parties for a USA citizen is evil and they compare them with North Korea. In europe the situation is very different and this parties is more democratical than other right or libertarian political parties.

Well with Bitcoin you need to think a bit wider than "just adopting it as the currency for a country". Bitcoin is already a world coin that is being used in businesses and alike an will create a much needed diversification for people and businesses ( especially the small ones) Bitcoin will exists as "that other payment option" (besides 99.999999999% of your paycheck is already digital ) So allowing businesses and people to create a diversification ( aka not putting you money in 1 or 2 pots) will generate a more stable climate. a more stable climate will push banks to give out better loans, which in turn will give the companies opportunities to evolve and grow, which in turn generate better/more job opportunities , etc
So bitcoin will contribute into job creation because it can have stabilizing quality.

+1. Bitcoin is not a silver bullet for everything.
Furthermore, bitcoin in Greece would just encourage corruption and black market which are already sky-high in Greece today.

No country will ever adopt a crypto currency as a sovereign currency. A crypto is too decentralised and impossible to control. Adopting a crypto does not solve unemployment and government debt.

Would adopting btc really solve the structural issues that the Greeks have? How does it make their industry more productive and competitive?

In my opinion Bitcoin will be the best answer to stop corrupt politicians and elite. The blockchain technology allows transparency( on the transactions part) but also allows for privacy. Besides who is to order you "not to use digital currency"? The government can't police the internet ( they even fail to thwart hacking attempts.. not to say that i can do a better job but still    ) so how are they going to search for people using Bitcoin or altcoins? They need the in-house know-how that is lacking and with  corruption spreading like wildfire ( not only in Greece but in every country) that will not happen. I've seen very intelligent people being ignored for job openings but t he sons and daughters of the wealthy & elite get the job, even if they haven't got a clue what to do. That is mostly why I quit my previous job.

Now being a member of the EU does hinder policy making a bit. if the ECB or the EU parliament create a laws that says "bitcoin will be taxed" or " is illegal" or some such thing the members of the EU need to follow this ruling ( otherwise fines and other nasty-ness.. and again its the people that are bearing the full brunt of that shitestorm.. just as it was with nearly very other crises in the last 3 decades or so). Currently EU countries have the liberty, to a certain extent, to do with BTC what they want. France for example did a heavy crackdown ( or smack-down) on everything digital currency. However they are changing their stance a bit after seeing the possible benefits. Belgium on the other hand, a neighboring country, does allow digital currencies to be traded back and forth without taxation and other more positive attitudes are coming from the government ( sometimes politicians can be open minded... and it doesn't hurt if you know some politicians and know how to work the system and have a great bitcoin association to boot)

So why not create a Greece/bitcoingroup that is open to dialog ( yes even with the politicians to educate them) IF that is done correctly someone in your community should fire off a letter( official one) to ask the tax authority of Bitcoin, dogecoin or digital currencies are going to be taxed now? they have to respond and if they do it like the Belgian government, they will agree that no tax will be levied ( basically allowing the trade and use of BTC). This gives you some legal leverage (since it is an official document) and will create more trouble for the government in the future if they decide to ban or levy taxes. It also helps to have an in-house legal expert/lawyer it wouldn't hurt to speak to the inner greed of the politicians too ( but not to obvious)

I also think that a tougher stance on migration is in order because migration/immigration isn't really to help the "poor people that are fleeing war torn countries" but for big companies to get cheaper labor forces than the average joe or jane. This in turn creates anger between residents and immigrants/migrants which in turn keeps both parties not organised, which is the main goal of most big businesses. The big businesses take the lessons from history to hart: "know your enemy, know your surroundings and know yourself and you will be victorious" Sun Tzu or  "divde et impera" Phillip 2 of Macedon or "divide ut Regnes" Caesar. However if a small band of brothers and sister clamp together, like oh I don't know the Spartans did against the overwhelming force of the Persian empire ( to say in history or other examples), they might be victorious. I know a bit of a dreamy reminiscence but i find it an apt description for current day troubles. Now i'm not a racist bigot that only plays and gables in digital currency but you have to look at the job opportunities that are available and if you have about 200 000  or more jobless people already do you really need to add  thousands more refugees? A quota would be great in theory but still in practice we've seen that there are also corrupt officials that help people to get "their legal things" in order at the sight of a high stipend

Anyway I think Bitcoin should be adopted by Greece. This will be a well placed F****** you to the EU and the rest of the world. Personally I think that the elite are purposefully keeping Greece, Spain & Portugal artificially "in the hot seat" so to speak. That way the elite can buy up lands, companies etc   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHUk-lyfUV8  ( no worries , English subtitles are present    ) Now there was a prominent Belgian investor ( company has about 5 billion €), read an article in a financial journal a couple of months past, that said that he was buying up companies, buildings, office spaces etc in Greece because "Greece will get back in its feet and business will flow again".

So chek2fire I do agree with most of your conclusions. Education is a problem, however it is us, the BTC community, to educate the people ( elite fear "the people" getting organised around something like bitcoin). Maybe you are good with words so you can go to speeches, talk to people, network with certain open minded people. If you are not so good with speaking but are a great writer you can always make a Greek news site that educates and informs people about happenings in the digital currency community ( but then in your native language) and if you want you can have a  chat with Alex Preukschat about the translation of the Bitcoincomic to Greek. That way you create a great awareness about bitcoin ( honestly who doesn't love to read comics )

By devaluing it into oblivion like they did (several times) in the past, before adopting the euro?

Did you know that, despite the fact that most Greeks dislike the EU, more than 63% of them want to keep the euro as their currency? They remember how it was before, when they had their own currency that the government could devalue at will.

While many people in Greece blame Merkel for their economic woes, it is not really Germany's fault for being reluctant to pay other people's expenses. It is the fault of the Greek governments (several of them) that they have taken on huge debts (using the fact that the market demanded very low interest rates since those were "bonds of an EU country") and wasting the money on stupid socialist projects and welfare (14th monthly salary anyone?).

Of course, the EU also has done some pretty stupid things. "Austerity" when you are up to your neck in government debt is a good idea only if implemented properly - which means cutting government expenses drastically but also cutting taxes and letting the private businesses flourish. Instead, the troika has insisted on cutting government spending and raising taxes, which is a recipe for disaster.

Not to mention that the original idea of imposing a single currency on the Eurozone without a single Eurozone debt was an economic idiocy that guaranteed that the current economic crisis was going to happen. Imagine the USA with no Treasury bonds, only state and municipal bonds, but the states cannot print money and cannot be allowed to go bankrupt. If that were the case, the USA would have disappeared by now into economic oblivion. Which is where the EU seems to be firmly headed.

SYRIZA is a rather fascist/nationalist party that is making an opportunistic power-grab, exploiting the fact that the people are angry with the status quo. It is, actually, quite likely to win the elections. It is not, however, likely to improve things there. Oh, well. At least it is not the Stalinist party or the openly fascist Golden Dawn. Yep, they have those there too. When the economy turns down, the cockroaches start crawling.

The topic should really be "Can adopt Bitcoin? The answer is no".

I think the Greeks have other problems right now
I may well be wrong but my impression is that if Syriza comes to power, they will be anti crypto not pro

I have read some of the recent market movement there, and accepting Bitcoin might make it even more worse.

Well, the title should be "Can Greece adopt Bitcoin right now?

hmmm...but people have high hopes for Africa's unbanked?  Aren't they even more technically primitive than Greece?

THAT WAS SPARTAAAA!!!!

Very sad to hear about the outlook on Greece, well spoken check2fire.

About the current state of affairs, the crumbling economry, the constant bailouts, and corrupt class and political system in place.

You'd think a country with the rich ancient history of Greece that were catalysts to change in the fields of math, technology, philosophy, and idealogy would adopt something so game changing like Bitcoin, but alas, it's the people at the top or "wealthy elite" there that are calling all the shots, not the people.

BLOOD HONOUR GOLDEN DAWN!

tell Merkel fuck off and go bankrupt. they are already bankrupt and will never change this with the euro. but its better to be your own master than to be a slave. they would do much better with their own currency after some time.

Is not so long way back to history that Greek has done great things. Is the only country that has fight germany nazis when all the other europe countries was occupied without any resistance(france, austria, holland etc). Is the country that give writing to the east nations like russian etc and that rule byzantine empire for thousand year.
Greeks was the default language for many centuries in the middle east area for thousand of people and to return in the recent history many Greeks was great person in many foreign countries and give great science things to humankind or poetry, writers( Cavafy etc). Even and here in this small bitcoin ecosystem many of the most known person are greeks or has greek roots like Antonopoulos, or the creator of cgminer etc.
Dont forget that the most ship cargo in this world is from greeks and we have a great traditional in this.
The only thing that set back greece and greek people imo is the corrupt political system