Can more ATM's increase adoption for Bitcoin? - page 11.

LUCKMCFLY

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An ATM was installed in San Antonio del Táchira, a border between Venezuela and Colombia, as this makes the adoption much more dynamic because people usually change the local currency (Bs.S to COP) Sovereign Bolivars to Colombian Pesos, but Bitcoin has an impact deeper because the cmabio is much more beneficial because they take the equivalent of USD and from there to COP.

Source: http://confirmado.com.ve/instalado-cajero-bitcoin-en-san-antonio-del-tachira/

This is one of the most moved borders worldwide, as the economic crisis in Venezuela forces people to depend totally on a deflationary economy like Bitcoin has, it is a thousand times better as the internal economy grows every day. inflation.

As people get to know more and if the change is more attractive, I'm sure they will need more Bitcoin ATMs.

Kakmakr

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ATMs are part of the problem these days, because all the KYC/AML regulations that you have to adhere to are killing the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin and it is adding ridiculous high fees to Bitcoin transactions. ATMs are making Bitcoin adoption very convenient for a lot of people who has no clue what Bitcoin is, so they could care less about high fees and anonymity. Angry

People are already used to Fiat ATMs, so the transition to Bitcoin ATMs are not a big deal for them. Wink

I prefer not to convert my Fiat to bitcoins at ATMs, because I do not want my personal information logged on exploitable databases. Roll Eyes

malevolent

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Quote from: stompix on September 22, 2019, 02:49:01 PM

Mistype, lols, I was trying to say 1000.

I haven't used one since quite a time, and by that time the yellow ones from GB had a limit of 5k PLN after which you had to scan the ID.. I have hard about the new shitcoinsclub atm's that have invaded all of eastern Europe with their no limits no id nothing but I tried to stay away from them, they are quite shaddy, their former exchange is almost dead, they have changed 2 times what company was responsible for the atms in Germany until they've gone back to the polish one...neah...I have a feeling they will get more attention than they wanted pretty soon.

Shitcoins.club is one of the two major BTC ATM networks in Poland, the other one is Flyingatom.com. Both work fine, have no KYC and a generous 60k PLN transaction limit, as long as you're not in business partnership with any of them I don't see why you should be worried. One of the people behind shitcoins.club is apparently involved in a cat and mouse game with Polish customs trying to nail him for illegal gambling operations but it's not really a concern for anyone uninvolved.

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Quote from: malevolent on September 22, 2019, 02:14:02 PM

Quote from: stompix on September 22, 2019, 12:25:57 PM

That's the anonymity, you stuff some bills in, tell it where to send your coins and if you're below a certain amount (depends on the country) they won't ask you for any documents. I know for certain that in the Czech Republic and Poland you can buy for under ~~100~~ euros (at least, no sure on the max) with no id.

In Poland none of these ATMs ever ask for IDs, and the maximum withdrawal is 60k PLN, or 13.7k EUR. Minimum transaction size is usually around 100 PLN or 23 EUR. Not sure about Czech Republic nowadays.

Mistype, lols, I was trying to say 1000.

I haven't used one since quite a time, and by that time the yellow ones from GB had a limit of 5k PLN after which you had to scan the ID.. I have hard about the new shitcoinsclub atm's that have invaded all of eastern Europe with their no limits no id nothing but I tried to stay away from them, they are quite shaddy, their former exchange is almost dead, they have changed 2 times what company was responsible for the atms in Germany until they've gone back to the polish one...neah...I have a feeling they will get more attention than they wanted pretty soon.

DarkDays

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There are plenty of Bitcoin ATMs lying around. Practically every major city has several Bitcoin ATMs in quite convenient locations.

However, I don't think that these are the way forward. We need integration with a major chain or retailer in order to truly spur adoption.

In fact, if we could get a huge retailer providing a discount for paying in Bitcoin, that would probably do a huge amount for adoption.

malevolent

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 22, 2019, 11:56:47 AM

Can you actually buy bitcoin anonymously at any of these ATMs? How is that possible aside from feeding the machine cash? I didn't think any of these things operated that way, but then again I've never used one. I don't even know where the nearest one is to me.

Here's a map of Bitcoin ATMs: https://coinatmradar.com/

Yes, you can feed in the cash, often in bundles too.

Quote from: stompix on September 22, 2019, 12:25:57 PM

That's the anonymity, you stuff some bills in, tell it where to send your coins and if you're below a certain amount (depends on the country) they won't ask you for any documents. I know for certain that in the Czech Republic and Poland you can buy for under 100 euros (at least, no sure on the max) with no id.

In Poland none of these ATMs ever ask for IDs, and the maximum withdrawal is 60k PLN, or 13.7k EUR. Minimum transaction size is usually around 100 PLN or 23 EUR. Not sure about Czech Republic nowadays.

Distraction

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I don't know how many people buys and sells Bitcoin from ATMs but ATMs will make people more curious about Bitcoin and search about it. As for the adoption of Bitcoin, I think ATMs can be helpful but not much.

Ryker1

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Well, I don't see any reasonable ideas of having bitcoin ATM's will bring and increase adoption of Bitcoin. People just like being anonymous in buying bitcoin and they have still doubt those ATM's where placed had a camera. Yes, the fees are too high and it is almost the same in the exchange or in your local exchange. I would rather buy on the internet rather go outside and paid money in front of the machine just for the buying bitcoin which is putting our lives into risk. For me, it will increase adoption but not too much.

gentlemand

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I presume the trajectory of the average user is - buy at an ATM, research further, realise you've been raped, never return.

If they had manageable premiums and spreads then yes I think they could help. They hardly ever do.

If I had a local one I could sell to that cost no more than a crypto debit card I'd definitely use it. Such a thing will never exist.

hatshepsut93

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1. Bitcoin ATM's usually charge much higher fees than exchanges, so they're not the best for customers.

2. Bitcoin exists on the Internet, so it's actually not that important for people to buy it via an ATM - people going to use Bitcoin on their phones or computers, so it makes much more sense to buy it on online exchange, instead of physically going to an ATM.

3. Lack of ATM's is one of the most improbably reasons why Bitcoin is not being adopted now, as there are a lot of more important issues. So, no, ATM's won't increase Bitcoin adoption.

Artemis3

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Quote from: stompix on September 22, 2019, 12:25:57 PM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 22, 2019, 11:56:47 AM

By the way, how do you buy bitcoin from the Vietnam machine pictured in the OP? Do you put cash into it like a soda vending machine or do you have to use a credit/debit card?

The small slot with red lighting is for inserting the cash, it looks like the basic ultraviolet scanner to identify fake bills.
I don't see anything that would fit a credit/debit card on that thing.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 22, 2019, 11:56:47 AM

Can you actually buy bitcoin anonymously at any of these ATMs? How is that possible aside from feeding the machine cash?

That's the anonymity, you stuff some bills in, tell it where to send your coins and if you're below a certain amount (depends on the country) they won't ask you for any documents. I know for certain that in the Czech Republic and Poland you can buy for under 100 euros (at least, no sure on the max) with no id.

Also, I wonder how old that ATM is, sure looks like it had been through some rough times..and the location.... Grin

Privately owned by the local owner?

For credit/debit it needs an iso7816 reader, but most importantly, banking support, and this is the biggest obstacle.

The ATMs can easily be taking pictures of you. Maybe not the ones you tried, but i expect them to do it either verbosely of secretly, just to "cover themselves" in case of a legal investigation. The camera might be on the atm itself, or nearby. Usually they have cameras pointed at them, just to "deter vandalism"...

Just like most bank atms take pictures or video of you all the time, so can these. Cameras are very easy to conceal nowdays, don't expect to notice them.

stompix

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Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 22, 2019, 11:56:47 AM

By the way, how do you buy bitcoin from the Vietnam machine pictured in the OP? Do you put cash into it like a soda vending machine or do you have to use a credit/debit card?

The small slot with red lighting is for inserting the cash, it looks like the basic ultraviolet scanner to identify fake bills.
I don't see anything that would fit a credit/debit card on that thing.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 22, 2019, 11:56:47 AM

Can you actually buy bitcoin anonymously at any of these ATMs? How is that possible aside from feeding the machine cash?

That's the anonymity, you stuff some bills in, tell it where to send your coins and if you're below a certain amount (depends on the country) they won't ask you for any documents. I know for certain that in the Czech Republic and Poland you can buy for under 100 euros (at least, no sure on the max) with no id.

Also, I wonder how old that ATM is, sure looks like it had been through some rough times..and the location.... Grin

Privately owned by the local owner?

bL4nkcode

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Increase adoption? Maybe? but not that much, it will help to spread awareness on what BTC is though and for free marketing. Even though I never have seen any ATM in my country though there are some already, but never think that I will use them to buy some.

Artemis3

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Quote from: phillymogul on September 22, 2019, 10:33:02 AM

We know consumers love ATM's and the convenience. Would you buy Bitcoin at ATM or nah?

I wouldn't, and i don't recommend anyone to do so, unless they are desperate for cash and don't have access to a bank account. Its far more cheaper to go online exchange the bitcoins and have that fiat deposited in your bank (from which you could withdraw at their atms or use a debit card).

Anyway yes, they could increase adoption, if only because they happen to be ad signs.

As i have written elsewhere, ironically those ATMs are useless where the fiat has gone the hyperinflation spiral. It is a physical problem, given the amount of useless banknotes they would need to carry, they simply become unfeasible. They could, at best, transfer money to your bank account, and then doing that online would have been many times cheaper.

Unless you haven't noticed, yes, i consider the fees Bitcoin ATMs ask horrendous, worse than credit cards.

shield132

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To be fair, no and let me explain why:
1. Current Bitcoin ATMs, each of them has huge fees which makes it very impractical to use, doesn't worth paying 10% and higher fees to just withdraw bitcoin, lower it up to 2% and that will be a whole different situation.
2. You can easily convert Bitcoin into USD with attractive rate and then withdraw from any ATM with your card, for example take XAPO, I mean service similar of them and such services are growing, in some countries even banks offer you crypto exchange. So that sounds more practical for me rather than sending bitcoin from your wallet to btc ATM.
I think these two reasons are valid against your question.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: mk4 on September 22, 2019, 10:42:15 AM

Though buying and selling bitcoin anonymously through some ATMs that doesn't require KYC and doesn't have CCTV cameras is great though.

Can you actually buy bitcoin anonymously at any of these ATMs? How is that possible aside from feeding the machine cash? I didn't think any of these things operated that way, but then again I've never used one. I don't even know where the nearest one is to me.

Also, what does "top up successful" mean? Does that mean that your address received the coins? The only time I've ever heard the phrase "top up" is with regard to minutes on a cell phone and the like. Maybe it's a phrase that's not used in my country.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Though ATMs are convenient, for me it's not worth buying bitcoin from ATMs regularly because the buy and sell rates are significantly higher than bitcoin exchanges.

I definitely see your point, although I think I'd use them anyway. Hell, I used to buy bitcoin (and doge) from wesellcrypto.com, which had quite the markup--and the sad part is that had I kept all the bitcoin I'd bought from them, I'd have made incredible profits. That was some time ago. ATMs are very convenient, and if I had one in my neighborhood I'm sure I'd use it. What I'm not sure of is whether anyone who isn't already into crypto would.

By the way, how do you buy bitcoin from the Vietnam machine pictured in the OP? Do you put cash into it like a soda vending machine or do you have to use a credit/debit card?

cabron

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Some people from this forum probably doesn't buy BTC on ATMs unless there is an ATM located nearby. I knew someone doesn't do that, I asked him as there is an ATM about 5 mile drive away from his parents house. He don't do that but just try earning some coins thru gambling and bounty instead. If there is a bullrun however, I'm sure people will try to reach a 24hour drive ATM just to buy some BTC.

mk4

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Quote from: phillymogul on September 22, 2019, 10:54:41 AM

It does makes you wonder who is the target audience?

I really don't know for sure, but probably those people who aren't willing to expose their identities by using exchanges that requires KYC? And probably those who doesn't know that exchanges like Coinbase exists. Just my guess though. I've always thought bitcoin ATMs would die out because of the price premiums, but more are actually appearing in various places; meaning that there's actual demand there, which definitely surprised me a lot.

avikz

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No! Unless the ATM companies give up the premium they are taking from each transaction! I personally wouldn't prefer to use a crypto ATM unless I have some emergency! I would always prefer p2p route because it provide a lot better pricing!

However, there's a positive side of crypto ATMs as well. An increasing number of crypto ATMs would make a lot of people intrigued about cryptos! Especially those, who are not exposed to it yet! Probably some of them would inquire about it, would probably do some google search and try to understand the cryptos. So such ATMs can make some indirect impact. But the chance of direct impact on adoption looks really feeble!

phillymogul

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It does makes you wonder who is the target audience?

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