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Topic: Can new bitcoins be created (Read 1393 times)

legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
January 25, 2013, 02:18:05 AM
#26
From what I gather they'll just keep diluting bitcoins until owning one bitcoin actually amounts to something of a small fortune.

"diluting" is not the right word and there is no "they". If the demand for bitcoins continues to increase faster than the supply, the value will continue to rise -- and vice versa. Everyone expects that the demand will continue rising, but there is no guarantee.
newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
January 24, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
#25
From what I gather they'll just keep diluting bitcoins until owning one bitcoin actually amounts to something of a small fortune.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
January 24, 2013, 10:12:06 AM
#24
50 years what?
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
January 24, 2013, 09:34:54 AM
#23
It's an interesting question, but 50 years? ?  Roll Eyes
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 251
January 23, 2013, 06:19:32 PM
#22
I see what you mean.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
January 23, 2013, 06:04:07 PM
#21
No, he's not right.

The chances of finding 'lost' Bitcoins is the same as finding 'wanted' bitcoins. As most bitcoins are 'wanted' you'll most likely just be stealing other peoples bitcoins. But wait a second? The chance of finding gold on the ocean floor is small but as we all know not absolutly impossible. The chances of 'finding' other peoples bitcoins are so many magnitudes more tiny that really it would be more truthful to just say its going to be impossible even if we had a computer for each molecule in the universe.

And dont get me started on 'lost' bit coins. Maybe I wrote down the private key in clay tablet that I absolutly expected would be dug up in 8000 years time!! You would never know!

You misunderstand.  If SHA-256, RIPEMD-160, and ECDSA are never (as in not today, not next century, not 489230824390248390 years from now) compromised then your right lost vs not lost would be the exact same (essentially 0%) chance.

However the more plausible scenario is that RIPEMD-160, SHA-256, or ECDSA will eventually be compromised and while it will be difficult to brute force (think mining but for existing coins) it will be possible.  Long before that theoretical attack becomes useful a NEW bitcoin address type based on NEW stronger algorithms can be created.  Over the course of years (potentially decades) coins would be moved to these new addresses.  Given the increasing risk of losing ones coins it is very likely the only coins remaining in "version 1" addresses would be the ones which can't be moved because the private keys have been lost.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
January 23, 2013, 05:57:45 PM
#20
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley

Except that gold has a small chance of being found. Cheesy

There is a small chance lost BTC can be found if the cryptographic algorithm protecting it eventually is compromised to the point that "treasure hunters" can brute existing addresses. 

That's something to look forward to in the future. As the son of a man who has panned for gold, metal detected on beaches and old civil war sites, and looks for treasure all the time, that interests me. It would only apply to wallets that were "lost" because they never upgraded their encryption right?


Right.  Technically if there was some "slow" users who didn't upgrade their "not so lost" coins could be treasure hunted too.  However based on prior cryptographic breaks we are probably talking about a timeline in years if not decades even after a credible flaw is found.  More than enough time for even the most clueless user to move to new address types. For example although SHA-1 is considered cryptographically broken if Bitcoin addresses used SHA-1 it would still be uneconomical to brute force.  Estimated cost to produce a single collision is roughly $2.7M USD using rented cloud computing time.  The original flaw in SHA-1 was found in 2005 based on a known flaw from SHA-0 found in 1998.  

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2012/10/when_will_we_se.html

The interesting thing is that if/when that happens we will get the first good estimate of the number of truly cost coins. 
sr. member
Activity: 286
Merit: 251
January 23, 2013, 05:53:38 PM
#19
No, he's not right.

The chances of finding 'lost' Bitcoins is the same as finding 'wanted' bitcoins. As most bitcoins are 'wanted' you'll most likely just be stealing other peoples bitcoins. But wait a second? The chance of finding gold on the ocean floor is small but as we all know not absolutly impossible. The chances of 'finding' other peoples bitcoins are so many magnitudes more tiny that really it would be more truthful to just say its going to be impossible even if we had a computer for each molecule in the universe.

And dont get me started on 'lost' bit coins. Maybe I wrote down the private key in clay tablet that I absolutly expected would be dug up in 8000 years time!! You would never know!
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
January 23, 2013, 05:47:16 PM
#18
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley

Except that gold has a small chance of being found. Cheesy

There is a small chance lost BTC can be found if the cryptographic algorithm protecting it eventually is compromised to the point that "treasure hunters" can brute existing addresses. 

That's something to look forward to in the future. As the son of a man who has panned for gold, metal detected on beaches and old civil war sites, and looks for treasure all the time, that interests me. It would only apply to wallets that were "lost" because they never upgraded their encryption right?
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
January 23, 2013, 05:45:36 PM
#17
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley

Except that gold has a small chance of being found. Cheesy

There is a small chance lost BTC can be found if the cryptographic algorithm protecting it eventually is compromised to the point that "treasure hunters" can brute existing addresses. 
Y'know, Hes actually right....  ... Coooooooooollllll
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
January 23, 2013, 05:43:27 PM
#16
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley

Except that gold has a small chance of being found. Cheesy

There is a small chance lost BTC can be found if the cryptographic algorithm protecting current addresses eventually is compromised to the point that "treasure hunters" can brute force existing addresses.
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
January 23, 2013, 05:22:00 PM
#15
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley

Except that gold has a small chance of being found. Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
January 23, 2013, 03:37:00 PM
#14
It's exactly like gold in sunken galleons  Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 271
Merit: 250
January 23, 2013, 03:09:36 PM
#13
what happens when bitcoins are lost? bitcoins are money - people dont lose money intentially but money is lost everyday/scattered around the world, under the sea, blown up, etc. it wont mean much if a bitcoin is lost because it will be a very rare occurence

This link was posted just prior to your post, but it answers your question:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#But_if_no_more_coins_are_generated.2C_what_happens_when_Bitcoins_are_lost.3F_Won.27t_that_be_a_problem.3F
legendary
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1001
Okey Dokey Lokey
January 23, 2013, 03:03:53 PM
#12
El, Oh, El.

The only way that bitcoins are going to fail due to lack of supply is if people Constantly lose thier wallets holding >1000 coins.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
January 23, 2013, 02:54:30 PM
#11
what happens when bitcoins are lost? bitcoins are money - people dont lose money intentially but money is lost everyday/scattered around the world, under the sea, blown up, etc. it wont mean much if a bitcoin is lost because it will be a very rare occurence
sr. member
Activity: 255
Merit: 250
January 23, 2013, 02:02:13 PM
#9
Hey guys, topic says it all,

Can new bitcoins be created after the 21 million Bitcoin cap is reached? Im looking 50 years down the road, won't bitcoins be to scarse for a world internet economy?

Absent a total breakdown of the protocol, yes it could be done, but you need an overwhelming degree of agreement amongst current users of bitcoin.

+1
legendary
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
January 23, 2013, 11:20:57 AM
#8
Don't forget either that Bitcoins can be broken up very easily so you could have prices like 0.0005 in fact I'm already seeing it happen in some cases but the goods clearly look like they're copied or are outright rip offs of the original work.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
January 23, 2013, 08:06:01 AM
#7
Quote
won't bitcoins be to scarse for a world internet economy?
No
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