Topic: Can police take you to the psychiatric hospital with no probable cause? (Read 1584 times)

In reality they can't but...
In my country we had one very special case when one very influential media owner send his wife to psychiatric hospital because she wanted to divorce from him and take their child with her.
He proclaim that she is crazy and call doctors and also police as support, in order to bring her by force to medical institution.
All media in the country reported about it and eventually, because of public pressure, she was released from hospital.

Ya I guess they are the law

Well in my country the police are even afraid to shoot down because they'd gonna be sued and others for killing, unlike the US that once you didn't listen to some restraint orders then they will shoot and the plice would just make his statement and thats it

Welp, no probable cause here! I feel so bad for her!


And my $300!

I do enjoy Tectroll and Greek arguing, but alas I'm sure it won't continue.  Now what I said before I think is true for all states--the police can take you in if they think you're a threat to anyone or if you get a physician's certificate saying as much.  I've seen it happen, but they don't do it willy nilly.

Police can do whatever they want, whatever they can get away with. But they better have probable cause, and it better be good. If it isn't good enough, the city will be paying - the city taxpayers will be paying.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.14204384

No. I actually found out she was telling the truth. The documents were in my hand for about 19 minutes and I got to read them actually.



There was no probable cause in this scene. She was confirmed by police in her bedroom with headphones on. Also was confirmed by the hospital that she was handcuffed when she came in .

If you're going to talk to people like that, nobody is going to take anything you say seriously.



See yourself out of my threads, please. Good day.

I believe someone might have observed her from time to time so they can get basis and report it to the police? Cause i don't think the police would just barge in to some people's house without authorization.

"Probable cause" is whatever the police say it is. That's not proof, that's someones word/opinion. So its 3 years old... and? Do the laws change every fucking year? Also that's a lawyer's website not some "organization website". I don't think he would be in business long posting inaccurate legal information. Additionally either you don't know how to read or you didn't read it because the info is there. If you don't like what I linked you can do your own research you lazy fuck. You aren't bothering to read what I am posting anyway.

Also @techshare,  that thread you researched was made more than 3 years ago. Not only that, it's not an organization website at all. I need a government issued website that is up to date.


Also, it doesn't even say anything on what rights you have. It's not related at all. Did you read the entire post?

Clearly I read what you said if I responded to it.


I did research of my own as well. Police have to have one or all of the following in order to take you into their custody:

* Probable cause
* Court appointed demand/ warrant


If you're sitting in your bedroom behind a locked door listening to music and then suddenly you get invaded and asked about things that have nothing to do with you and you exercise your right to remain silent and refuse to participate, that doesn't give probable cause that you're mentally ill.

Well sorry but I am not psychic, I don't know which state you are referring to. I did however explain the process is similar in almost every state. Police can in fact involuntarily commit you in New Jersey. Considering I am the only person so far to provide you with factual information on the subject I am surprised you don't bother reading what I post completely before dismissing it.

http://www.shapiro-croland.com/blog/families-in-new-jersey

Yeah, I mean, if she was in her bedroom doing nothing, then I guess that qualifies as probable cause, huh?



How old are you?

Bad news everyone: she was telling the truth. You're probably wondering why that's bad news. Well, I made a bet with her boyfriend that she was lying and that if indeed she is, you gotta pay me 300 worth of CAD
..



RIP money.

Ofcourse they can, if you are a crazy satanist freemason nutter you can be dangerous for others. (e.g.  murder of Black Dahlia).

There are no EU. There are different European countries. Every country has its own laws and its own culture.

That's correct. But nobody can sue them if they they took you there for a good reason.

Well in EU they can take you to a psychiatric hospital, but then your mental issue has to be confirmed by multiple doctors!

Probably irrelevant, but in many EU states the police have right to take someone to psychiatric hospital if they have a good reason to believe that because of his/her mental state that person can be dangerous for him/herself or for others. I guess this isn't much different in the States.

It depends. In a military junta like US probably, yes. In a democratic country no. In my country we kick the ass of the cops.

What were they questioning her about for her to say no comment.Need to know before I can help you.Did her parents call the cops?. And if they did why
Police don't turn up without a reason..They must of said were here because of blah blah blah.

Perhaps a financial adviser as well? I've been meaning to take care of two problems.


1 is the money from a lawsuit I had about a year ago in which I sued an employer for uncivil discrimination. I won but the money is taking too long to be paid to me and I have no idea what I'm going to do as I have bills that need to be paid.


Also, my friend's girlfriend just said her personal bedroom was intruded by police, and wants just a few minutes to talk to somebody for free on advice of what she should do. I tried googling places for free consultation but it seems like they're all indeed not free at all so I don't know on what to do about her situation

go to your solicitor to file for a debt collection no other way unless you send the mob
the courts have ruled in your favour and he is breaking is promise to the court.
If he as said he is bankrupt and he as filed for it then you get nothing

And you girlfriends problem sue for wrongful arrest and the stress it caused her..
Remember her parents let the police in so no forced entry. But she still need a lawyer no matter what happens.

But are you sure your friends not coo koo

Oh and last point..I got no money before you try that old chest nut 

That's in MAINE. This happened in New Jersey.



Also, I don't really think they can take anybody without probable cause, consent (because she's over the legal age) and also just no evidence or reason at all. She was in her bedroom, minding her own business and was being questioned about a situation that didn't even have anything to do with her. Makes no sense. Sure she didn't cooperate with the police, but if police gain access to you behind your locked bedroom door, I'd say that's crossing some boundaries.

I think she is too.


She told me a domestic violence problem between her parents was happening downstairs and the police wanted to talk to her about it.


Very odd, as it has nothing to do with her. There has got to be something she's leaving out. This is so bizarre....



I don't know. I asked her to get some documents from the hospital that she went to and we can go review the paperwork. If she's telling the absolute truth, I'll let you all know.

First, watch this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&index=10&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D.

Then Listen to the first two audio MP3s on the right side of this page - http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html.

Then listen to audios 01 and 02 at the bottom of this page - http://recordings.talkshoe.com/rss127469.xml.

Then contact Karl here - http://www.broadmind.org/Contact.html.

Snippets of some of Karl's audios can be found here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tNkWzZSNBDTl4CcjZcj1naheT0yaH9WDxdr4Q60Zz2A/edit.

Just for some very interesting info that might in some ways apply - http://voidjudgments.com/.

I just tried showing that there is worse than what she lived.

I am having a hard time even following what you are trying to argue. Your point seems completely unrelated to this thread.

Easy!
Imagine that man was jogging in street with his sweatsuits and earphones. An ordinary day. But no... Police wants to stop him.
Calls him to stop... But he has earphones and doesn't hear. Continues running. Police takes his gun and shoots him from his behind.
Comparise now. Which is worse?.

There is no "investigation" as you describe it. The person is evaluated by a psychiatrist. That is the only double checking happening. There are no penalties for the person reporting if the claim was false. Possibly if they do it more than once you could sue them or charge them for harassment but that's about it.

for sure, this can happen if you live in a police states . . but it must be investigated whether she said the truth or not.. and what reason made her father call the police ? i think she is hiding the true story..

Wrong. I wish you were right but you aren't.

This is specific to the state of Maine (just because it came up first in the search results) but the law varies slightly from state to state. In most cases it is basically the same. Anyone can be involuntarily admitted by police or family, some times anyone.

https://www1.maine.gov/dhhs/samhs/mentalhealth/rights-legal/involuntary/faq/home.html

is she going mad?
Seem very unlikely but lets say she's telling the truth, she could file an abduction case for that as far as i know. Even if her parents give permission or invitation, it doesn't count since she was being forced.

Yes, the police can involuntarily commit you without any evidence. It is more common (and easier) for family members to do this though. Your family can most certainly have you committed. If she is having difficulty with her parents and doesn't actually need medical treatment she needs to get out of their house otherwise this will probably happen again and she might not get let out next time.

They take involuntary drafts into consideration and send the bills to some sort of welfare, which I believe is called "Medicaid'.

You can also expect the hospital to bill you $1,000/day... not that I would know anything about being locked in a psych ward  

Just got her phone number. Okay, I suppose I'll be questioning her more on the matter, since she's asking me for advice and asking me to give input. I'm not even sure why I'm entertaining this situation but there is a part of me that thinks she wouldn't lie about this. If she did and she took this to court, she'd definitely be in severe trouble.


I just don't know.


Please stay tuned for more information if I can provide it everyone. Thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it if anyone can, and will be of some verbal assistance.


Be sure to give input on what I should do with my finance issue regarding a lawsuit.


Edit: never mind. I just spoke to a legal finance office. I was approved.  

...And you're asking people on bitcointalk for this kind of advice?

Don't know about "probable cause" but you can get a physician's certificate if someone is deemed a danger to themselves or others and yes the cops can take you to the hospital against your will.  Any more than that, consult a lawyer.

For the record everyone, I do not actually believe her story as it is very odd for the police to accept a key to her bedroom door to enter her room and question her about a situation that had nothing to do with her. It's very, very odd. If this is in fact true, I definitely want to look into it and see if I can assist her. If she is indeed telling the truth and the hospital confirms this, I wanna find out if compensation is within her reach.

Ah sorry my bad, but either way, the hospital would be your best bet, CCTV footage of the entrance and the parking area would stack some evidence up against the police if they were doing something genuinely illegal.

I don't know. I guess this is all she is telling me. I just texted her boyfriend, (who is my close friend). He texted her, and he just said to me that she said that when she got to the psychiatric hospital, they told her that there was a domestic violence scene of some sort happening downstairs and the police wanted to question her about it. Again, very odd, as it had nothing to do with her.





(Also, she's not my girlfriend. It's my friend's girlfriend.


I have a fiancé. This girl and I have never dated.)

As much as I love my friends, I'm not getting into it like that because it isn't my business. I will let her know to just call a local lawyer, but I think she said she already tried that...


Plus if I was to go to the police station that handled that, they'd probably tamper with evidence. It'd be impossible to sue them. The only thing that'd save her is if she's got written documents from the hospital she went to at least to prove she was indeed sent to the hospital in handcuffs for sitting in her bedroom behind a locked door.

I think she has been to psychiatric hospitals in and out. I do remember back when we went to HS together, she went for about a week for suicidal thoughts and depression.




Does that count as probable cause maybe? If it does, that was so long ago.

If you don't know whether she's telling the truth or not you should check with the local police station first and see if there are any records of what she says, then if there are contact any sort of local lawyer and just try to talk to them about it, they shouldn't have a problem if you're just asking what the hell to do.

By the way, actual records at the station will also be a way of getting the lawyer to take you seriously, I don't mean to dismiss your girlfriends story but if you don't even know what's going on it's down to you to find out for certain what's happening rather than overreact. I find that story a bit odd, you don't know whether or not she was doing something illegal and so on and was just using you to try and get out of it, or perhaps, did she end up getting into a verbal fight with her biological parents and they called the police on her and so on?

fyi, I'm not a lawyer but I think everyone would need more context including the lawyers in how this actually happened if anyone is to help out.

I do believe I had mentioned this situation in off topic. I don't believe I got a chance to really discuss it though. Here's the thread if anyone's interested.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-there-a-lawyer-on-bitcointalk-i-can-speak-to-1401031

 I am also looking for legal advice here if it can be given. Maybe a financial adviser would be best for my situation. For my friend's girlfriend's situation though, she might need a lawyer.



So if I do recall correctly, she mentioned she was in her bedroom with headphones on behind her locked door when all of a sudden, police barged into her bedroom. Mind you, she's under 25 and still lives at home with both biological parents I believe. Her father gave the police the keys to her bedroom door. They barged in, started questioning her, but she said she had the right to remain silent. Next thing she knew, she was verbally harassed, physically harassed, pinned on her bed, handcuffed, then sent to the psychiatric hospital. The doctors let her go that same evening in about 4 short hours. I do believe if the police rightfully took her in, they would have kept her much longer.


I don't know what to think here. This is quite unusual to me. I don't know if she's telling the truth that she was in her bedroom, not making a sound and just listening to music. If that is the case, what should she do?