Can the Wall Street fat boys kill Bitcoin profits? - page 3.

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: Eternu on January 28, 2018, 12:04:54 PM

Quote from: thejaytiesto on January 28, 2018, 11:04:57 AM

Quote from: hase0278 on January 22, 2018, 05:54:57 AM

Quote from: orkoso on January 22, 2018, 05:21:25 AM

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

I think people are overrating the impact of the futures market in the actual bitcoin price. They are not trading the underlying, one some promises, this doesn't matter in bitcoin.

The pump we saw was due idiots FOMOing, and the dump we saw was due idiots panic selling. Idiots: people that see Bitcoin on the news but don't have any deeper thoughts about it and why it matters. I believe the market is at least 50% idiots at any rate, and these were the ones that pumped the price to the last peak and these are the ones that got shaken out in the last bottom.

If the price holds, I believe we may start going for an all time high in the next month again, this time, having shed all the previous idiots that are here to make some bucks but aren't here for the long term as they have no idea what they are buying.

You are right when you say that most of people that deal with bitcoin are not so deep into it, and knows nothing about it. But i think that has good sides too. Because if not for them price would not fluctuate so much, and we could not earn money from that fluctuation. I do not say that i would like to see price of bitcoin fluctuate forever, it would be even better if it stayed in one place (or not fluctuate so much) and we could start using bitcoin as an currency as its suppose to be used. In time people will see their mistakes, and everything will come to its place. Until than we can continue to make some small earnings from difference in price.

Fluctuations would happen no matter what, it just takes a single whale to decide to enter a position to pump the price or dump it, but yes, without all the idiots to push this initial movement into either direction would be way harder to create these situations of irrational FOMOing and irrational dumping, so we can take advantage of it.

The problem is we can't never know when a top is a top and a bottom is a bottom, only guesstimate. It's a form of gambling eventually. I believe in buying dips and holding long term, never selling. Guessing tops is too difficult. Even if you buy what was looking like a bottoming dip and it goes 3000 points lower, it will eventually rebound above your entry price, long term BTC is going only higher, so why risk losing your position selling and having to deal with endless KYC exchange nonsense to boot.

ladydark

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Yes bitcoin futures has made unstable changes to occur in bitcoin prices which were not found before. Bitcoin has seen a ATH within a month followed by a sudden downfall to 10,000 dollars after the launch of bitcoin futures. At first, the Wallstreet fat boys considered bitcoin as their main rival but then when they were not able to stop its progress, they just changed their strategy and started to get involved in bitcoin.We would have to just wait and see its effect over bitcoin after a considerable period of time.

Blockman21

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There's somewhat manipulation or control would be there in all currency related market but I doubt whether this would be applicable to cryptocurrencies.

pitiflin

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Dude the wall street people are rich. They bleed money. One such investor of the wall street is 10 times richer than a bitcoin whale and not a lot of bitcoin whales exist when the numbers are compared with Wall Street investors.
The futures have hardly been out and as I heard South Korea is planning to introduce to such futures, we may see something different here. I haven't done much research about futures and how exactly they work,but in such a short period of time, Wall Street people may not be able to gain much, but they may influence people in their favor, so in the long run a lot needs to be considered.

Zentor

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I think that those "fat boys" are interested themselves in bitcoin because it has high volatility and they could make much higher profits here

Barbarian

sr. member

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Why would they want to kill profits? Wall street investors have no loyalty the only thing they care is about making a lot of money and if they can use bitcoin or any other asset they are going to do it, so it does not make sense to want to do that for greedy people like them.

fachant

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Quote from: gatti on January 28, 2018, 10:51:36 AM

Quote from: Eternu on January 28, 2018, 10:45:32 AM

Quote from: removebeforeflight on January 24, 2018, 04:09:22 AM

There's somewhat manipulation or control would be there in all currency related market but I doubt whether this would be applicable to cryptocurrencies. May be the fat boys buy large volume of bitcoins and then makes a large sharing unit to control bitcoin, I'm not too sure whether they can intervene directly in to manipulation of prices in bitcoin profits.

They can not intervene directly, at least that is what i think. Lets say that biggest holders decide to sell all their coins. Problem with that is, there are really low chances that all of them would agree and on that. Another problem would be, who would buy all those coins and for which price at the end. So yes they could manipulate bitcoins price a bit, but that is very hard to do in the same time. I am not economy expert so i could be wrong, its just my logic here. From my point of view, because bitcoin is decentralized that makes it hard for individuals to manipulate it.

Yes bitcoin is the decentralized digital currency.So it's value or price is not control by the wall Street fat boy.It may slightly control by the investors and traders.But it was only the temporary control of bitcoin.

If they invest a large amount of money, they can certainly affect the price in some way.

Eternu

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Activity: 560

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Quote from: thejaytiesto on January 28, 2018, 11:04:57 AM

Quote from: hase0278 on January 22, 2018, 05:54:57 AM

Quote from: orkoso on January 22, 2018, 05:21:25 AM

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

I think people are overrating the impact of the futures market in the actual bitcoin price. They are not trading the underlying, one some promises, this doesn't matter in bitcoin.

The pump we saw was due idiots FOMOing, and the dump we saw was due idiots panic selling. Idiots: people that see Bitcoin on the news but don't have any deeper thoughts about it and why it matters. I believe the market is at least 50% idiots at any rate, and these were the ones that pumped the price to the last peak and these are the ones that got shaken out in the last bottom.

If the price holds, I believe we may start going for an all time high in the next month again, this time, having shed all the previous idiots that are here to make some bucks but aren't here for the long term as they have no idea what they are buying.

You are right when you say that most of people that deal with bitcoin are not so deep into it, and knows nothing about it. But i think that has good sides too. Because if not for them price would not fluctuate so much, and we could not earn money from that fluctuation. I do not say that i would like to see price of bitcoin fluctuate forever, it would be even better if it stayed in one place (or not fluctuate so much) and we could start using bitcoin as an currency as its suppose to be used. In time people will see their mistakes, and everything will come to its place. Until than we can continue to make some small earnings from difference in price.

BettingTips

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OPEN GAMING PLATFORM

They can't kill Bitcoin but I think with huge capital they can easily control the price of Bitcoin. They can make Bitcoin price dump or pump as they want to make as much as profit they can

. For now, this case still can't happen cause the US government still ban all activity related to cryptocurrency in their country so for now rich people in Wall Street still don't have chance to do it

)

thejaytiesto

legendary

Activity: 1358

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Quote from: hase0278 on January 22, 2018, 05:54:57 AM

Quote from: orkoso on January 22, 2018, 05:21:25 AM

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

I think people are overrating the impact of the futures market in the actual bitcoin price. They are not trading the underlying, one some promises, this doesn't matter in bitcoin.

The pump we saw was due idiots FOMOing, and the dump we saw was due idiots panic selling. Idiots: people that see Bitcoin on the news but don't have any deeper thoughts about it and why it matters. I believe the market is at least 50% idiots at any rate, and these were the ones that pumped the price to the last peak and these are the ones that got shaken out in the last bottom.

If the price holds, I believe we may start going for an all time high in the next month again, this time, having shed all the previous idiots that are here to make some bucks but aren't here for the long term as they have no idea what they are buying.

Coffee135

full member

Activity: 392

Merit: 137

People do not have to accept the fact that someone drives a cryptocurrency. It can turn cryptocurrency into the same asset as Fiat. The unification of the entire community in a common goal can withstand any attempt to establish control over the cryptocurrency. But people are too greedy to understand this. Perhaps bitcoin appeared very early in order to be understood.

Canis Majoris

member

Activity: 126

Merit: 59

Quote from: HasHe on January 22, 2018, 07:35:12 AM

Quote from: orkoso on January 22, 2018, 05:21:25 AM

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures in bitcoin would not kill it but rather it would exist in parallel like oil futures,gold futures,etc.It would not have any direct impact over bitcoin prices.But it would have a slight effect over the minds of investors to decide whether to buy or sell bitcoins at the prevailing price or to just hold.Its already predicted that futures in bitcoin would reduce its volatility but it has not happened.

That would largely depend on the types of futures. Unlike Bitcoin, oil and gold futures are mostly physically settled. When a futures contract that is physically delivered expires, it requires the holder to either deliver the commodity or take delivery of that commodity from the exchange. Cash-settled futures are not deliverable. Bitcoin futures are only cash settled, and no delivery of real bitcoins is required when the contract expires. There is hardly any reason to think that such futures can affect Bitcoin prices. Personally, I'd rather think of them as sort of betting on the future prices. It could affect the prices only via manipulation.

For example, market makers could see how many contracts have been bought, and they could deliberately crash the Bitcoin price. Then the buyers would have to fix losses on the contract expiry. Conversely, if too many contracts have been sold, they could artificially push the Bitcoin prices higher, and thus reap profits again. Then wash, rinse, repeat. But it makes sense only if there is some volume in these contracts, otherwise it is simply not worth it.

gatti

full member

Activity: 382

Merit: 109

Quote from: Eternu on January 28, 2018, 10:45:32 AM

Quote from: removebeforeflight on January 24, 2018, 04:09:22 AM

There's somewhat manipulation or control would be there in all currency related market but I doubt whether this would be applicable to cryptocurrencies. May be the fat boys buy large volume of bitcoins and then makes a large sharing unit to control bitcoin, I'm not too sure whether they can intervene directly in to manipulation of prices in bitcoin profits.

They can not intervene directly, at least that is what i think. Lets say that biggest holders decide to sell all their coins. Problem with that is, there are really low chances that all of them would agree and on that. Another problem would be, who would buy all those coins and for which price at the end. So yes they could manipulate bitcoins price a bit, but that is very hard to do in the same time. I am not economy expert so i could be wrong, its just my logic here. From my point of view, because bitcoin is decentralized that makes it hard for individuals to manipulate it.

Yes bitcoin is the decentralized digital currency.So it's value or price is not control by the wall Street fat boy.It may slightly control by the investors and traders.But it was only the temporary control of bitcoin.

Eternu

sr. member

Activity: 560

Merit: 257

Quote from: removebeforeflight on January 24, 2018, 04:09:22 AM

There's somewhat manipulation or control would be there in all currency related market but I doubt whether this would be applicable to cryptocurrencies. May be the fat boys buy large volume of bitcoins and then makes a large sharing unit to control bitcoin, I'm not too sure whether they can intervene directly in to manipulation of prices in bitcoin profits.

They can not intervene directly, at least that is what i think. Lets say that biggest holders decide to sell all their coins. Problem with that is, there are really low chances that all of them would agree and on that. Another problem would be, who would buy all those coins and for which price at the end. So yes they could manipulate bitcoins price a bit, but that is very hard to do in the same time. I am not economy expert so i could be wrong, its just my logic here. From my point of view, because bitcoin is decentralized that makes it hard for individuals to manipulate it.

gorush

newbie

Activity: 22

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Everyone wants to make profit, they will join the revolution

Dragon5

member

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Probably not, but they attempt to)) even in Wall Street Journal they describe cryptocurrencies as non-lasting phenomenon, wide-spread and developed in Asia, as well as bound to crash one day. They say only Asian counries are interested in these thechnologies, opposing more conservative West

orkoso

member

Activity: 276

Merit: 23

Quote from: Lucius on January 22, 2018, 06:14:11 AM

I think Wall Street is only about how to make profit and if BTC can make a profit for them nothing will change even for small users.Last price decrease was an opportunity for everyone to buy low and sell high.Some say that price decrease may be related with first BTC futures expiration,so we will see when next futures is expire in January 29. whether it would have the effect on the price.

Personally I do not like that Wall Street is involved in anything regarding BTC,they have thrown the whole world to the knees in 2008 and destroyed millions of human destinys around the world.I hope that BTC is strong enough to survive even them.

I agree with you, it is quite dangerous and it is prone to create many problems for the regular Joe out there. I wish it did not happen, but it is there so we need to find adaptation and survival strategies. Hodling is not goin to get us out of the issue.

Any ideas?

fiomcorka

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Activity: 496

Merit: 254

Quote from: krishnapramod on January 24, 2018, 06:58:41 AM

It has just been a month since Bitcoin futures was launched by CME. Is the current variations in Bitcoin price a result of this? It's quite difficult to say. There are contradictory views, people who see Bitcoin futures as a mainstream approach and the others who believe it might have a negative impact on the Bitcoin market, manipulation/shorting. The dynamics of Bitcoin economics is different from other assets/derivatives, a new asset class, so IMO, maybe in short-term big Wall Street players might be able to influence the price, but in the long-term there are a lot of factors involved.

Well, as for what I think about this- I think it might be having effect on the price rate of Bitcoin, but not much. We’ve been through these kind of issues before, and I don’t think it does happen for long. This is not even the first time it is happening, it has happened many times and not once.

orkoso

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Activity: 276

Merit: 23

Quote from: Harlot on January 22, 2018, 06:18:25 AM

I don't think so in any market especially in cryptocurrency their will always be whales who are the first movers of the trend. And some of this whales are from the wall street what we can do is to ride the trend they are creating as they are not the only ones who can benefit the price action of something. Yes some might be affected by the price change of Bitcoin but if you know how to trade then you won't be far out of them. Technical Analysis is what they are also doing they are just the ones who are making the move first.

That is more or less ok, if they invest first so be it. The problem with futures is that is makes it worth to purely manipulate the market and make profit from it.

orkoso

member

Activity: 276

Merit: 23

Quote from: hase0278 on January 22, 2018, 05:54:57 AM

Quote from: orkoso on January 22, 2018, 05:21:25 AM

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

The thing is that volumes are relatively low and easy to manipulate and most of the alts seem to be too correlated with Bitcoin so is one ring to rule them all.

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