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Topic: can we admit segwit SF is never going to get 95% approval? - page 2. (Read 4481 times)

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
All Core vs except Luke JR I think which actually wants to make the blocksize smaller, want to eventually make the blocksize higher.
That is correct. However, BU & their fanatics are not concerned with whether their "teachings" are related to reality/the truth or not. Roll Eyes



I think the biggest problems anti-Core guys have is that they don't trust them. Core hasn't said a specific date where this blocksize increase would happen, I think they will not stop complaining until Core gives a clear date to raise the blocksize after the segwit activation, but I think if Core did that, they would still complain and don't trust them. They just hate them now no matter what they do.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
I do think so. Chinese pools will never agree to activate it. We need to find another solution to solve the problem. If not, Bitcoin will be replaced by another crypto which is faster, cheaper and more convenient. Too many people join the bitcoin world but it seems that bitcoin does not want to grow up

Everyone waits for the development of bitcoin, however, the head does not agree with that, rather than choosing more robust and convenient bitcoin methods, they want to stay bitcoin, this Makes the bitcoin slow and many people leave.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling? 

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork. 

But Segwit is also a fix to the malleability problem and improve the network to make it more robust right? It also opens Bitcoin to make it easier for other technologies like LN and Mimble Wimble to be built on the network.

What is so bad about that?
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
Interesting proposal dropped by Luke Jr a couple hours ago:

https://github.com/luke-jr/bips/blob/bip-cbv/bip-cbv.mediawiki


Block signaling with TX fees.

legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
Regarding the UASF

From what I last heard it was mostly small services that agreed to signal it. However the larger exchanges and services like Bitpay they didn't want to signal UASF due to the controversy it might generate and cause loss of clients.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
All Core vs except Luke JR I think which actually wants to make the blocksize smaller, want to eventually make the blocksize higher.
That is correct. However, BU & their fanatics are not concerned with whether their "teachings" are related to reality/the truth or not. Roll Eyes

legendary
Activity: 1204
Merit: 1028
All Core vs except Luke JR I think which actually wants to make the blocksize smaller, want to eventually make the blocksize higher. Im sure we will sooner or later see a bigger blocksize, but for the time being we should enable segwit, let it run for a while, then eventually go 2MB, specially as more and more people start using LN since they will realize onchain transactions aren't worth it for small payments when you have LN unless you really need to because you are sending a decent amount.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling?  

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork.  

Do you like spreading FUD?

segwit was a secret project/altcoin as part of blockstream:elements, done separately from the bitcoin community from 2014-2015
consensus 2015 meeting was their first main roadmap that core decided to follow and have not listened/done the other things that the community asked of them.. its either the blockstream highway(roadmap) or no way..
no B roads, no diversion no secondary routes.. just follow blockstreams roadmap or get chucked off the network by the end of 2018
The only altcoin here is bug unlimited. Segwit fixes numerous problems, makes lightning network possible to work at full effect, provides endless technologies that actually make bitcoin possible for mainstream adoption and so on.

We have segwit working nicely on litecoin and the end of the world predicted by segwit fudsters never happened.

I would back a compromise of Segwit HF + 2mb.

If you do not, then I think its fair to say you are among those blocking segwit.

legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1252
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling?  

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork.  

Do you like spreading FUD?

segwit was a secret project/altcoin as part of blockstream:elements, done separately from the bitcoin community from 2014-2015
consensus 2015 meeting was their first main roadmap that core decided to follow and have not listened/done the other things that the community asked of them.. its either the blockstream highway(roadmap) or no way..
no B roads, no diversion no secondary routes.. just follow blockstreams roadmap or get chucked off the network by the end of 2018
The only altcoin here is bug unlimited. Segwit fixes numerous problems, makes lightning network possible to work at full effect, provides endless technologies that actually make bitcoin possible for mainstream adoption and so on.

We have segwit working nicely on litecoin and the end of the world predicted by segwit fudsters never happened.
legendary
Activity: 4424
Merit: 4794
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling?  

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork.  

Do you like spreading FUD?

segwit was a secret project/altcoin as part of blockstream:elements, done separately from the bitcoin community from 2014-2015
consensus 2015 meeting was their first main roadmap that core decided to follow and have not listened/done the other things that the community asked of them.. its either the blockstream highway(roadmap) or no way..
no B roads, no diversion no secondary routes.. just follow blockstreams roadmap or get chucked off the network by the end of 2018
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling?  

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork.  

Do you like spreading FUD?

pls, enlighten.
legendary
Activity: 3620
Merit: 4813
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling?  

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork.  

Do you like spreading FUD?
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
"Segwit is a compromise" is rhetoric.  Compromise between what?   sensible scaling and no scaling? 

Truth is:  segwit is something Core came up with own their own without consulting the users, that offers a tiny amount of scaling as a soft fork. 
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
I suggest compromise or walk away.  Prolonged contention is unlikely the best course.
Agreed, compromise is always the best option for both sides. Competition always has consequences for both. However, in this case, I think competition is essential, I think bitcoin should be segwit.
And there's the rub; walking away means one "side" gets the legacy/brand and the other is an altcoin.
Ok but what kind of a compromise do you propose and why do you think it is a good idea? I used to think the same way as you but I realized that it is easy to say "do a compromise", but when asked what kind of compromise I cannot answer or I realize I do not know much to comment.
Totally agree; saying compromise is indeed the easy part; creating it is the hard work.  In this particular case it will start with both sides agreeing to something important and then each side giving in enough to be meaningful.  For example, if both sides can agree to something like this;

"It is important to keep things decentralized."

If there is no agreement to something important then walk away.  If there is true agreement then proceed to the next step; each side gives up something meaningful, e.g.;

1) All will promote/encourage multiple independent development teams.  One dominate/central development team goes against our agreed to guiding principle.
2) All will agree to some small increment in the protocol at first and then measure/observe the impact and move towards results that work best toward decentralization.

This is just an example.  The actual negotiations would likely end up somewhere else.  When both sides feel heard and respected then there is the possibility of compromise.

Even in a walk away situation, it should be possible to negotiate inheritance of the legacy/brand; perhaps something along the lines of ETH/ETC.

I get your point and as I said I used to think the same way. A compromise would be nice but I realized that the scaling debate is really a war for control. Lauda has pointed out that Segwit is the compromise but the Chinese miners does not want it. They want everything and want the hard fork to BU. Where is the compromise there?

If there really was a compromise it would have happened in the Hong Kong meet up between Core and the miners.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

More red ink from Lauda.

When are you going to tell everyone that you are really theymos just being an asshole?


Lauda isn't Theymos.  Actually, Lauda was removed from staff .
full member
Activity: 218
Merit: 100
I do think so. Chinese pools will never agree to activate it. We need to find another solution to solve the problem. If not, Bitcoin will be replaced by another crypto which is faster, cheaper and more convenient. Too many people join the bitcoin world but it seems that bitcoin does not want to grow up
hero member
Activity: 709
Merit: 503
I suggest compromise or walk away.  Prolonged contention is unlikely the best course.
Agreed, compromise is always the best option for both sides. Competition always has consequences for both. However, in this case, I think competition is essential, I think bitcoin should be segwit.
And there's the rub; walking away means one "side" gets the legacy/brand and the other is an altcoin.
Ok but what kind of a compromise do you propose and why do you think it is a good idea? I used to think the same way as you but I realized that it is easy to say "do a compromise", but when asked what kind of compromise I cannot answer or I realize I do not know much to comment.
Totally agree; saying compromise is indeed the easy part; creating it is the hard work.  In this particular case it will start with both sides agreeing to something important and then each side giving in enough to be meaningful.  For example, if both sides can agree to something like this;

"It is important to keep things decentralized."

If there is no agreement to something important then walk away.  If there is true agreement then proceed to the next step; each side gives up something meaningful, e.g.;

1) All will promote/encourage multiple independent development teams.  One dominate/central development team goes against our agreed to guiding principle.
2) All will agree to some small increment in the protocol at first and then measure/observe the impact and move towards results that work best toward decentralization.

This is just an example.  The actual negotiations would likely end up somewhere else.  When both sides feel heard and respected then there is the possibility of compromise.

Even in a walk away situation, it should be possible to negotiate inheritance of the legacy/brand; perhaps something along the lines of ETH/ETC.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
A compromise would be a simple max block size increase.
1) You don't compromise with terrorists.
2) Increasing the block size limit without Segwit is both stupid and dangerous.

This would completely nullify any issue with BU code quality.
BU code is complete trash, and the developers are one of the worst that I've seen. Nothing can nullify that.

It is only due to the fact that core iteratively whittled away this idea down to nothing, that gave big blockers an incentive to create BU to begin with.
It is a very bad idea.

Ok but what kind of a compromise do you propose and why do you think it is a good idea? I used to think the same way as you but I realized that it is easy to say "do a compromise", but when asked what kind of compromise I cannot answer or I realize I do not know much to comment.
Segwit is the compromise.

More red ink from Lauda.

When are you going to tell everyone that you are really theymos just being an asshole?


 Cool

FYI:
Lauda is an idiot.

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 3000
Terminated.
A compromise would be a simple max block size increase.
1) You don't compromise with terrorists.
2) Increasing the block size limit without Segwit is both stupid and dangerous.

This would completely nullify any issue with BU code quality.
BU code is complete trash, and the developers are one of the worst that I've seen. Nothing can nullify that.

It is only due to the fact that core iteratively whittled away this idea down to nothing, that gave big blockers an incentive to create BU to begin with.
It is a very bad idea.

Ok but what kind of a compromise do you propose and why do you think it is a good idea? I used to think the same way as you but I realized that it is easy to say "do a compromise", but when asked what kind of compromise I cannot answer or I realize I do not know much to comment.
Segwit is the compromise.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
I suggest compromise or walk away.  Prolonged contention is unlikely the best course.
Agreed, compromise is always the best option for both sides. Competition always has consequences for both. However, in this case, I think competition is essential, I think bitcoin should be segwit.
And there's the rub; walking away means one "side" gets the legacy/brand and the other is an altcoin.

Ok but what kind of a compromise do you propose and why do you think it is a good idea? I used to think the same way as you but I realized that it is easy to say "do a compromise", but when asked what kind of compromise I cannot answer or I realize I do not know much to comment.
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