Can we afford to lose touch with money?

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Quote from: Amph on July 22, 2015, 03:09:37 PM

Quote from: bitcart on July 22, 2015, 12:13:19 PM

The only reason I don't use 100% e-money is because not all merchants will accept it (yep, even for traditional forms of payment like visa - when you think of certain bars, small shops, etc.)

same for me, but i only need two big thing to accept bitcoins and then i can go full bitcoin

supermarket and amazon(but here we have open bazar coming, so we can try to forget amazon), bills can be already payed in bitcoin with some service online like bitbill.eu

Bitbill.eu is truly amazing, I started using their services lately. I mean whatever we can do to help the network and mass adoption.

Mickeyb

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Move On !!!!!!

Haven't we already lost a touch with money? I mean I pay everything electronically nowadays. So paying with Bitcoin would not make a great difference in this sense, at least my opinion.

Amph

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Quote from: bitcart on July 22, 2015, 12:13:19 PM

The only reason I don't use 100% e-money is because not all merchants will accept it (yep, even for traditional forms of payment like visa - when you think of certain bars, small shops, etc.)

same for me, but i only need two big thing to accept bitcoins and then i can go full bitcoin

supermarket and amazon(but here we have open bazar coming, so we can try to forget amazon), bills can be already payed in bitcoin with some service online like bitbill.eu

cellard

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 07:53:17 AM

One of the biggest contributing factors to debt in the world, is the fact that we have literally lost touch with our money. The wide acceptance of payment methods where you do not physically trade with something you touch, for example Credit cards, debit cards and electronic money, could make it easier to spend money.

In South Africa, a company is testing this theory with a reality series, where the contestants are given their monthly salary in coins. The idea behind this is to see what impact this has on the spending habits of these people, when they pay for everything in physical coins.

Source : www.onerandfamily.co.za

Question 1 : If Bitcoin or Crypto currencies replace fiat, would you spend more or less?

Question 2 : Do you think physical contact with your money, makes you spend less?

Question 3 : Would we have less debt, if we paid for everything in fiat?

Yes we can, it's the future. Using physical coins is something of the past. The problem is if the electronic system that replaces physical coins are legit or not, and Bitcoin is the most legit thing ever, so im not afraid to let go past practices such as physical trading.

bitcart

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www.bitcart.io

The only reason I don't use 100% e-money is because not all merchants will accept it (yep, even for traditional forms of payment like visa - when you think of certain bars, small shops, etc.)

MF Doom

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Quote from: TrueBeliever on July 22, 2015, 09:39:01 AM

Quote from: MF Doom on July 15, 2015, 01:18:14 PM

Quote from: gripflierGO on July 15, 2015, 01:14:47 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 08:21:41 AM

I have done this experiment with my kids, and it's remarkable how much less they spend, when they handle money.
The touching and the feeling of a physical thing, kind of bonds you to it. This is why vending machines and slot machines in gambling replaced the coin operation in my opinion, with smart cards. The emotional bond to money is broken and people tend to spend more. Shocked

Bitcoin makes a lot of other things easier, but it might increase spending habits and increased debt.

That is true. When you hold physical cash you will think twice before spending it. But same is not with the credit cards,debit cards or even bitcoins as you know that paying with credit cards gives you some added time to pay so people spend more but same doen't goes with physical cash.

The thing that I can't understand is all this stuff that people fight over kids learn in school, and NO ONE cares that children aren't taught financial literacy in high school! I mean ALL students should have a mandatory financial education class that teaches the lifetime value of living within your means, the dangers of auto loans, credit card debt, and building wealth.

I think the fact that this stuff is excluded from curriculum is sad and frankly intentional. It would be the best way for young people to start their lives out on the right foot, be able to buy a house/build wealth from early on, not learn the hard way after they get out of college with 100k in student loans and 20k in credit card debt. Starting out your adult life like that is not good, and makes it tough to gain financial independence. Then again, the debt masters of the world want you to remain a debt slave forever...

financial literacy could/should be taught in the home. firstly by being a good role model. and secondly by building on the maths they learn in school to explain real life financial applications. Read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad to see how all this fits together.

Yes, I 100% agree that it should be taught in the home, but it definitely is not.

Not to mention, the current generation of parents (for the most part) are under the impression that they need everything NOW, they NEED a new $600 iphone every year, EVERYTHING needs to be financed, they think a car payment is just part of life, and that you should buy a house because they'll let you with only 3% down! How can these people who are financially illiterate teach anything about good money/spending/saving habits?

My point is that this information has not been taught to most people, and now a lot of people are starting out adult life "in the hole" with credit cards, student loans etc.

Take this as an example of typical financial knowledge of a college student:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/girl-blows-90k-in-tuition-money-on-clothes-and-vacations-then-blames-her-parents/

TrueBeliever

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Quote from: MF Doom on July 15, 2015, 01:18:14 PM

Quote from: gripflierGO on July 15, 2015, 01:14:47 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 08:21:41 AM

I have done this experiment with my kids, and it's remarkable how much less they spend, when they handle money.
The touching and the feeling of a physical thing, kind of bonds you to it. This is why vending machines and slot machines in gambling replaced the coin operation in my opinion, with smart cards. The emotional bond to money is broken and people tend to spend more. Shocked

Bitcoin makes a lot of other things easier, but it might increase spending habits and increased debt.

That is true. When you hold physical cash you will think twice before spending it. But same is not with the credit cards,debit cards or even bitcoins as you know that paying with credit cards gives you some added time to pay so people spend more but same doen't goes with physical cash.

The thing that I can't understand is all this stuff that people fight over kids learn in school, and NO ONE cares that children aren't taught financial literacy in high school! I mean ALL students should have a mandatory financial education class that teaches the lifetime value of living within your means, the dangers of auto loans, credit card debt, and building wealth.

I think the fact that this stuff is excluded from curriculum is sad and frankly intentional. It would be the best way for young people to start their lives out on the right foot, be able to buy a house/build wealth from early on, not learn the hard way after they get out of college with 100k in student loans and 20k in credit card debt. Starting out your adult life like that is not good, and makes it tough to gain financial independence. Then again, the debt masters of the world want you to remain a debt slave forever...

financial literacy could/should be taught in the home. firstly by being a good role model. and secondly by building on the maths they learn in school to explain real life financial applications. Read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad to see how all this fits together.

goosoodude

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Quote from: MF Doom on July 15, 2015, 08:26:58 AM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 08:21:41 AM

I have done this experiment with my kids, and it's remarkable how much less they spend, when they handle money.
The touching and the feeling of a physical thing, kind of bonds you to it. This is why vending machines and slot machines in gambling replaced the coin operation in my opinion, with smart cards. The emotional bond to money is broken and people tend to spend more. Shocked

Bitcoin makes a lot of other things easier, but it might increase spending habits and increased debt.

It is recommended by some financial experts (especially Dave Ramsey) to use a cash envelope for ALL spending. At the beginning of the month you fill all categorized envelopes with the cash you need, then use each one for only that category (ie gas, food, household goods, etc). This requires a strict budget to be created FIRST with all of your spending accounted for.

A LOT of people have paid down or paid off their debt by controlling their spending using this method. ..I've been meaning to try it myself

That is a nifty way of handling things. Though it might be hard to do for most since many things are withdrawn from your bank account and you can't change that since it's the default and no other ways are possible. On top, paying some things with cash would involve a lot of work.

I don't know how practicable that way is.

johnyj

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Beyond Imagination

Money is just an imaginary concept, but everyone need it: They need something that can be used as a standard unit of value, so that they can easily measure the value of everything else in the world, that is money in their eyes. People produce rulers to measure length, they also produce money to measure value

If there is no such kind of standard unit, for example everything's bitcoin price fluctuates day to day, then everyone will lose their mind, since they feel unsafe, and can not predict the future and make economy plan accordingly

So because people have such kind of accounting demand, it gives banks a mission to create fiat currency that give people an impression of constant value

In reality, different currency's value always fluctuate against each other, but people take it as granted that their domestic currency is the standard unit of value. So the stability of fiat money's value is automatically maintained by people's consensus domestically, not supply and demand (or to say, the demand for money is infinite thus the supply is always limited, does not affect its value)

bornil267645

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AltoCenter.com

Why are we talking about replacing one with another. I mean bitcoin is so good because we have the bad effects of the fiats. And if fiat system is replaced by bitcoin, it will lead to some misjudgement at some point. Let bitcoin be what it is. The perfect alternative to fiat.

hunnaryb

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Quote from: achow101 on July 15, 2015, 02:31:25 PM

I would spend less with Bitcoin since every time I want to make a purchase, I can see how much I actually have, just like carrying cash. I can see I have exactly this much and can only spend this much whereas credit and debit I pay before actually seeing my balance.

Same with me I would spend very less with bitcoins as it is mentality that value of bitcoin is more than that of fiat. So spending fiat would be bit easy as compared to bitcoins. As when you hear about the bitcoins the first thing comes to mind is an investment product. So will spend with great level of discipline.

Kprawn

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I have to say, IF I walked around with a bag of coins, I would have wanted to get rid of it as quickly as possible. {extra weight}

I can see that these people are taking it to the extreme to make a point. Many years ago, coins had a hole in the middle to enable people to carry it on a piece of string.

We have lost a bit of touch with money as the OP has stated it, but it's more about the practicality and convenience than anything else.

It's also easier for banks and governments to hide the de-valuation of money, when you do not see the bigger notes or the pennies that has become worthless. Wink

pooya87

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 07:53:17 AM

One of the biggest contributing factors to debt in the world, is the fact that we have literally lost touch with our money. The wide acceptance of payment methods where you do not physically trade with something you touch, for example Credit cards, debit cards and electronic money, could make it easier to spend money.

In South Africa, a company is testing this theory with a reality series, where the contestants are given their monthly salary in coins. The idea behind this is to see what impact this has on the spending habits of these people, when they pay for everything in physical coins.

Source : www.onerandfamily.co.za

Question 1 : If Bitcoin or Crypto currencies replace fiat, would you spend more or less?

Question 2 : Do you think physical contact with your money, makes you spend less?

Question 3 : Would we have less debt, if we paid for everything in fiat?

i find this a very interesting thing to put to test.

honestly i think for me it wouldn't make any difference. because i would spend the same amount of money no matter in what form it is. whether it is digital money in my credit card or it is bitcoin or even cash in my hands, i would spend the same. {maybe i would even spend less if all i had was bitcoin because of the price which may rise in the future and then i would regret spending them for lower price Wink

}

but i am very interested to know the result from testing a large group of people to see how everyone with different jobs and different spending habits would react when they don't have physical money in their hands to spend.

i sorta agree with Kakmakr that the touching and the feeling of a physical money in your hand, bonds you to it and makes you want to spend less.

czechkid

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Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 07:53:17 AM

One of the biggest contributing factors to debt in the world, is the fact that we have literally lost touch with our money. The wide acceptance of payment methods where you do not physically trade with something you touch, for example Credit cards, debit cards and electronic money, could make it easier to spend money.

In South Africa, a company is testing this theory with a reality series, where the contestants are given their monthly salary in coins. The idea behind this is to see what impact this has on the spending habits of these people, when they pay for everything in physical coins.

Source : www.onerandfamily.co.za

Question 1 : If Bitcoin or Crypto currencies replace fiat, would you spend more or less?

Question 2 : Do you think physical contact with your money, makes you spend less?

Question 3 : Would we have less debt, if we paid for everything in fiat?

I think you have a great point. My girlfriend doesnt like to spend money but loves to save. She keeps her money in a bank and only withdraws when she needs to pay/buy something and only uses to pay with card when there us no option (she wont use it if there us a fee) so i think she sees her bank as a secure place for her money to stay...plus she never bought anything online. So having physical money makes you spend less and omline possibilities make you spend more. And if there were no credit cards we wouldnt spend much as well but thats a long story...in my opinion credit destroyed usa and than the world. Wink

countryfree

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Your country may be your worst enemy

Losing touch with money? Funny!
I haven't had a check book for ages, and the last time I've used a credit card was on June 4th. And I've been in Western Europe all the time since then. I'm making wires frequently, but most of the time I'm using cash. Or BTC a few times.

ransomer

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Currently people have money in the bank because they trust it (in most western countries) and use creditcards. Rarely see physical money.

With bitcoin almost the only way to keep them marginally safe is paper wallets - effectively bills.

...

So arguably in a Bitcoin economy people will have their savings more in bills than we do now....

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

This is cool, here's the link to the One Rand Man documentary, which preceded the One Rand Family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vscXNIyf7s

Check it out...very interesting.

umaOuma

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Quote from: Mr Crabs on July 15, 2015, 02:04:35 PM

Quote from: Kakmakr on July 15, 2015, 07:53:17 AM

Question 1 : If Bitcoin or Crypto currencies replace fiat, would you spend more or less?

Question 2 : Do you think physical contact with your money, makes you spend less?

Question 3 : Would we have less debt, if we paid for everything in fiat?

1) Depends what the climate and value of bitcoin is. If the price is high then I'd spend, but if it keeps rising I'd probably save.
2) No, but I can see how people would get carried away with credit cards and spend money they don't have. Money in your pocket in a wad of notes always seems like more than just numbers on a screen.
3) Not really, unless you mean people don't pay on credit cards. People could still take out loans though.

Very rightly said. It is better to save bitcoins if the prices continue to go higher and higher and Saving is always the best option one should have in mind. Spend only when needed or else keep it safe for the future as its gonna be the profitable investment in the future giving best returns which none other can give.

DooMAD

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Leave no FUD unchallenged

I can relate to this. A music festival I attend switched to a cashless system this year. You top up an RFID-enabled wristband with money by card before the event (I did ask the organisers why we can't use Bitcoin, but I'm not expecting a reply, heh), then they give you the wristband when you enter and you just scan your wrist to pay for everything. Definitely found it more difficult to keep track of what I'd spent and probably ended up making more impulse purchases as a result. It doesn't "feel" like spending when you aren't physically handing over some cash or typing your payment details into a website. It's not quite the same for me when I use Bitcoin, though, since I'm releasing payments by typing the amount in and hitting send. Maybe if I were using it with a smartphone and that "tap to pay" functionality, it would be a similar experience.

achow101

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I would spend less with Bitcoin since every time I want to make a purchase, I can see how much I actually have, just like carrying cash. I can see I have exactly this much and can only spend this much whereas credit and debit I pay before actually seeing my balance.

Topic: Can we afford to lose touch with money? (Read 1155 times)