Topic: Can we regulate the trust system ? - page 4. (Read 1408 times)

So you are saying my trust feedback was to shut me down (was planed) because I was investigating some merit abusing in the past?

Anyway, who cares about a non DT trust. When a non DT leaves a red or black - it does not reflect your trust score. We are talking about Default Trust system which reflects the trust rating. An irresponsible, a personally biased one can ruin an account. Tag me if I owe you a single Penney and I deny to give it back. Otherwise how it's relevant?

"Warning: Trade with extreme caution!"

  The idea behind the trust system is a very helpful one it can be used to alert others about a suspicious and faulting member of the forum well.

I think the forum has done well by establishing DT to dish out trust to members I don't have anything against the forum idea but the issue is that a DT should be a very neutral member that don't constantly get into and issue with other member with the immense power a DT has at there disposal it would be wrong that a DT fall on members that has high temper he/she might constantly abuse there power.

And again before any trust can be given to any member it should at least have the approval of more than one DT Thai would help in making decisions less bias

Did you mean staff like you is precisely why the trust system is fcked up big time?do you mean you are still in hope that you will get your position back?
sorry to be honest there are less people here cares about your opinion a hypocrite pretending like you arent one of those abusers,heh.no hard feelings i might receive a red from your friends.

That says the right one!
The other users red tagged due to guessing!
Just as you scream into the forest, so it comes back!

Even theymos is not happy with the current trust system,but this is what we have to save the fellow members from falling into scam.So we can't change the current trust list to be changed it may wakeup lot of scammers accounts to be legit.

Someone suggested to make the defualt trust list too often like in one month period but that will leave heavy work behind the admins,so I don't think it will be regulated now but in the new forum software theymos might have some other feature to find the scammers more easily.

- When I want to trade, the forum members are not considering their own trust list
- When I am trying to join a signature campaign, the bounty manager is looking for someone who do not have red trust from the DT

If everyone is here to build their own trust list then why do everyone takes DTs trust in consideration? A wrong red from DT can completely ruin an account. Who has time to read all those pages after pages against the red trusted member to see if s/he really was justified?

While the trust system is far from perfect, there isn't a significant amount of abuse on any level. Any system gets misused to some extent. As long as the amount of misuse is insignificant, it is acceptable.

Stuff like this is precisely why almost all threads complaining about the trust system are pure bullshit. Alts of busted people start pitching in in hopes that their accounts will return to non-negative levels.

This aint a gang its called oligarchy,theymos said by himself he is not happy with the current trust system.
He is not a fool not to know these DT members are somehow abusing it,look at the positive feedbacks were given for some absurd reasons

Only those DT members are powerful here,even theymos words arent that much powerful.
Theymos said trust should not be given to pure spam,nor merit abuse because there are no such thing as merit abuse..why would he say distribute the merits to those posts which deserves it? there are different perspective with each people,different standards which is why trust system should be taken down or atleast re-arrange DT members.We need to vote or elect each one of them so that these trust abusers wont be in their positions for too long.

Enforce how? Moderators are not going to touch it, that's pretty much the founding principle of the trust system. Because if that happens then moderators are in control of the system, and if you think current complaints are bad - it would be orders of magnitude worse if trust gets moderated.

So that leaves users themselves in control of it... which can be done, and yes, even the counter-ratings that you mention are an essential part of it. You can't expect everyone to have the exact same opinion. There are other tools too, like exclusions.

That's not to say that the trust system couldn't benefit from some changes. I'd prefer more push for users to build their own trust lists. Keep in mind, complaints target mainly DT (Default Trust), which is just one branch of the trust system.

There can never be a system that will be absolutely favorable to all and sundry,and that's applicable in this situation,most times you could disagree with a DT trust rating while some other users may not,the more reason why I'll have to agree with you that there be a specific reason for handing out negative trusts.

Since it's designed to brandish scammers, it's best to leave it that way,as I do not see any reason why I should trade with caution with an individual that's simply a troll and not a scammer,definitely I cannot come to bad over his or her useless trolls

Giving negative trusts for trivial issues such as that kinda makes its purpose laughable and one not to bad taken seriously,and if negative trusts are still given for matters such as trolls or simply cos you don't agree with such users,soon in the future users would go ahead and trade with red trusted scammers as they would not be quite sure what the red trust was for in the first place or if it was deserved

Even though you do not wish to be. I am starting to see you more of supporter of what I would like to see happen...

I want free speech and equality for recognition of value for every single person on this board. That is all I want NOTHING MORE. Forget using me or the gang as examples that is not needed. We just want ....what I just said. If you can attain that then gangs are going to happen.

I am completely happy to leave myself and gangs out of this discussion.

I 100% agree with some criteria for RED trust from DT and removal if abused. Any system of control needs clear rules.

However, what you do not see right now...but I am hoping that you will after a while is.

Merit is more damaging and cancerous than trust. It actually a more powerful control tool than Trust even because you can not see negative merit and complain or mention abuse. You simply do not get merit given to you and since it is totally subjective there is no proof of abuse (unless gross giving 50 merits each to your alts)

Ignore my gang assertion.

Please tell me how you find fault with my example backed by observable events  that merit is a control tool. I feel it is impossible to deny. The only way to deny it is to say nobody here wants to be PAID2POST or cares about their rates of PAID2POST. I do not accept that is even plausible.

Also why would you not think my suggestions for merit improvements are ...well big improvements for stopping abuse and making things fairer for all?

If I could get rid of trust or merit I would get rid of merit or uncouple it from rank after full member.

Anyway sorry to derail you but you did mention me and my theories so I just wanted to say I support your post here 100% but I hope you can join me on helping develop fairer systems for all and not even allowing a system to control speech to remain here.

Forget my detest of those I felt were trying to attack me (if you do not want to believe me on that point then I can drop that entirely) and just work for what I really want - no oppression of free speech  and fair recognition for effort given from everyone.

I agree that an unofficial guideline could be drawn out to govern the trust system.
The issue I think arises from the text associated with trust feedbacks; Warning! Trade with extreme caution. It makes it seem like it only concerns trades. But I believe it roughly covers interactions with other users.

If a user is known for giving false facts about bitcoin, this is not an offense worthy of a ban. But it could be misleading to other members. And could be worthy of a red tag.

I agree it should not be used against users who disagree with your opinion or are expressing themselves, in however eccentric a manner.

My trust rating:

From hilariousandco

Thanks to jackg that I was able to trade with him (using some special condition though).

 
 looking at the amount of complaints from users on both Meta and Reputation boards, you get to see that many people are not happy with how the trust system or specially how DT members use it.

 I have randomly checked a few examples of how DT members use the trust system and to be honest for the most part of it, the tag had a valid reason behind it "scam", but on the other side i see a few cases where DT members give a negative trust for someone for the silliest reasons.

 The issue here is mainly because we have no obvious and clear set of rules that regulates the use of trust system.

 also given the fact that a negative trust from a DT member means no more signature campaigns and most likely no more trading activities, so ti does carry a lot of weight.

while I totally do not agree with @cryptohunter that there is an organized "gang" that abuses the trust system for own personal benefits  " or at least this is what i understood from his multiple posts"  , I do not think that there is any sort of gang what so ever, but I think every  DT member uses the trust system they way they "see fit" which in many case could be the "wrong"  even to other DT members, and you can clearly see in a few cases where DT memebers disagree to one another decision and counter it by giving a positive feedback.

and of course the same thing goes for positive feedback, i see some DT members giving positive feedback also for "silly" reasons too, and no body will ever admit that they way they use the trust system is wrong.

I personally do not think it is right to give a negative feedback for someone that is not a scammer no matter how much of an a**hole they are, this goes also for giving a positive feedback for someone just because you like them or because they have been "helpful".

This is a very important matter as a feedback from a DT member could be a "life changer" for someone who spent years building a good reputation only to get tagged for disagreeing to some DT member's point of view.

although i disagree with the most part of cryptohunter theory, but he has a valid point here


while i doubt it is as bad as he describes it, but it remains  valid as long as the use of the trust system is simply defined by everyone's own view.


here is what i think the trust system is meant to be used for


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so why don't we enforce some rules on the trust system to solve all this mess and live happily ever after ?