Topic: Can we still say that BTC transactions are faster? - page 3. (Read 3961 times)

I also think that it is still faster just delayed but I think it will be back to normal after july.

Only one time my transaction took more than 2 hours why? because I used custom fee with block chain.info.
Other wise when I buy bitcoin from an exchange site with my credit card just after sending money to them when I open my wallet and
can see my bitcoins in it. I will gladly wait 5 minutes and get 3 confirmations with only 0.0001B fee.

Just pay higher fee. Problem solved.

I think yes i can still say it is fast transactions.But sometimes delayed just umderstand all  things that is in on every transactions you made.Because of millions of transaction being process per day blockchain server may have problem handling it thats why sometimes it is delayed and not being confirmed.One fact is about the blocs fees and amount of transfer

confirmation times depends on blocks as well as fees. Even though you sent more free than recommended, you've to wait until the current block to solve.

if you want a fast bitcoin transactions use large transaction fee anyway. especially if you send bitcoin numbers are very large then it was followed a large fee anyway. on the one day I had sent bitcoin with a large amount but the fee that I give very little. guess how long? 3 days I can only confirm the transaction. so do not play play against fee. This is very influential.

No. I'm telling you that not only is your definition junk ("reasonable" is junk, for the same reason "correct answer" is not a correct answer to a math problem -- it's unenlightening, it carries no information, it tells your teacher nothing), but you also cant's write right.

>but if you do spend them (or receive a transaction that spent them) then you should expect a significantly increased chance that the transaction WON'T confirm in the next block

So, exactly like spending a check that Anon claims he sent you, then.
You can write checks (backed by zilch) before you receive Anon's check, but, if anyone tries to cash those bouncy checks you wrote, they'll bounce. But yeah, strictly speaking, you are free to spend Anon's check as soon as he tells you it's in the mail. Just like those unconfirmed tx

>Techy?  Maybe Techie.
Nah, I'm good.

So you're saying that the only problem with that requirement is a typo in the word "its" and you would prefer a better word that "reasonable".  Got it.  At least we agree on that point.


Yep, they can, but if you do spend them (or receive a transaction that spent them) then you should expect a significantly increased chance that the transaction WON'T confirm in the next block.  We are talking about my statement that the "properly formed transaction will typically (more often than half the time) confirm in less than 10 minutes and rarely (if ever) take more than 120 minutes", right?


Looks like we agree on that point too.


If she's sending the transaction, she doesn't need to.

If she's receiving the transaction, then she can either use a wallet or service that tells her, use a service that manages the risk for her, or determine for herself if she has enough of a trust relationship with the payer to accept unconfirmed transactions or needs to wait for a confirmation.


See above.


Bummer.  Give it time. Maybe in a few more years.


Techy?  Maybe Techie.

I apologize for not gaining your approval on my word choices ahead of time. Hope you can get over it. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to seek in advance your approval of all words I choose to use in the future.  I'll just continue to use words that I feel get my thoughts across as best I can.  Perhaps I'll occasionally fail, but it's gotten me this far in life, and I doubt it will become a problem for me now.  You've made your own value judgement about the word choice, others will make their own value judgements.  Perhaps some will agree with you, perhaps some won't.  I'm not particularly concerned.


Um? Ok.


Nah.  Not interested.

Vague, ambiguous words like "reasonable" have no place in a formal definition. Also: "its.
But you told me that those could be spent?
So opt-in RBF is out? Check.
How would my wife check for that?
Ditto.

Tell you what. I googled "properly formed bitcoin transaction," netting me ...About 0 results (0.32 seconds). Safe to say not something in common usage, so:
1. Don't coin techy sounding scientistical jargon like "properly formed bitcoin transaction" without defining it first. It might impress some bimbo at your city college, but shit don't fly here.
2. Learn what a definition is.

Yep.


Nah.

When I say a "properly formed bitcoin transaction" I generally mean the following:

• Transaction includes a reasonable fee for it's size
• Transaction doesn't spend any unconfirmed outputs
• Sequence numbers of all inputs equal to UINT_MAX
• No competing transactions seen on the network spending any of the same inputs
• Transaction broadcast to multiple nodes

Not sure exactly which wallet you're talking about, but yes there are several "popular" wallets that have transactions which create "bad" transactions, or do a bad job of protecting their users.  Popularity is a very poor measure of quality.


Businesses that provide you with that ATM interface are motivated by competition and desire to profit to provide a quality product.  If some hobbyist created an ATM that did dumb crap like that, would you use it?  No? What about if that ATM was popular, then would you use it? There were unfortunately wallets created early on by hobbyists without a significant motivation to create anything better than they needed for their own personal purposes.  Those wallets became popular before better wallets came along.  Eventually the market will sort out and the best designs will win, but until then popularity is a poor measure of quality.


A transaction that spends unconfirmed bitcoins.  I'm pretty sure I already stated that.


Lack of transaction fee?

It takes 30 minutes to 1 hour for me, but I only use a few pages to transfer and I get gig rewards in an random way, so I have no idea how much it genuinely takes.

Orly? I assumed you mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-formed_formula. But you didn't. Could you link me to the definition of "properly formed bitcoin transaction" you're using? Because it seems you're suggesting that "a properly formed bitcoin transaction" is a transaction that goes through, which isn't much of a definition, being both circular and unenlightening

...also getting into some murky shit, since you're telling me that one of the most popular bitcoin wallets is creating ill-formed transactions, transactions which, being ill-formed, should never happen

Imagine going to your ATM, slipping it your card, and, after keying in some numbers, seeing "Lulz, UR monyz GONE, ill-formed transaction xD looool!!" Not only did you not get any money from your ATM, but the money you expected to get is, basically, GONE. You might get it back some day, and then again, you might not.
This really is the currency of the future.

>Sure.  As of the time that I'm posting this, you can see a transaction spending unconfirmed bitcoins here:
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/153263713

What am I looking at? And why is it still unconfirmed, an hour later?

Sure.  As of the time that I'm posting this, you can see a transaction spending unconfirmed bitcoins here:
https://blockchain.info/tx-index/153263713

However, I suspect you'll find that getting away with double spending isn't as easy as you seem to imply it is.


Yes, the average is exactly 10 minutes (or at least VERY close), and as I said, more than half of the time it takes less than 10 minutes.  I believe the median is about 8 minutes or so, because maths.


When I said "The properly formed bitcoin transaction" I hoped that the average reader on this forum would understand that included paying a reasonable transaction fee.  The thread you linked was regarding a transaction that paid no fee at all.

None of your responses seem to successfully dispute my list of differences between an uncleared check and an unconfirmed bitcoin transaction.

Your FUD doesn't impress me much.

>Although it is generally best not to do so, it is possible to spend unconfirmed bitcoins.
Plz give me an example, because I want to do some serious double-spending via 0-fee tx.

>properly formed bitcoin transaction will typically (more often than half the time) confirm in less than 10 minutes
Only if the hashrate is going up. If the hashrate is constant, the average is exactly 10 minutes, because math.

>10 minutes and rarely (if ever) take more than 120 minutes
Can assure you, it happens. See thread linked above.

Here are just a few that come immediately to mind.  There may be additional differences as well.

• Although it is generally best not to do so, it is possible to spend unconfirmed bitcoins.  It is not typically possible to spend the money from an uncleared check.
• It is quite easy to see in advance if it is extremely likely that an unconfirmed transaction will confirm.  It is typically very difficult to determine ahead of time if a check will clear.
• It is relatively easy for the sender to remove funds from an account before a check clears, while it is quite difficult to successfully double-spend a properly formed bitcoin transaction
• The properly formed bitcoin transaction will typically (more often than half the time) confirm in less than 10 minutes and rarely (if ever) take more than 120 minutes, while the uncleared check will take days to clear

A properly formed bitcoin transaction is much more analogous to a credit card transaction that has received approval from the processing company and has a valid looking signature on the receipt than to a check in the mail.

Yeah PayPal has the constant time for every transaction. For this reason people find it to be faster but with bitcoin upon sending itself it reaches with the statement of unconfirmed transaction. Some even get confirmed in a short some take long time. This doesn't mean the amount is not transacted.

If you mean faster compared to bank transactions then that applies in most cases. Faster than other, more anonymous cryptocurrencies, no. There are faster alternatives with less blockchain bloatage available.

Sometimes it really took a few hours before you send a Bitcoin. Sometimes the problem is on the block chain, the confirmation of your transaction took too pong.

lol it takes so many confirmations before you received a bitcoin from external account and also sending a bitcoin takes so much confirmations it will need so much time to pass before the transactions are successfully confirmed . bitcoin transactions are not getting faster instead they getting slower .

For me as my observation about the speed of the transaction between the send and receiver it takes 10 minutes before your transaction get confirm this is fastest experience in bitcoin unlike before.. Before it takes 3 minutes or instant.. unlike now..
If we compare paypal in bitcoin for transacting funds paypal is fastest and instant.. unlike bitcoin it takes 10 minutes this is just my experience as of now.. even you are increasing the miners fee..