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Topic: Can we talk about the rampant account trading in the local forums? (Read 515 times)

legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 3060
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However, it seems that with the merit requirements, users have stopped caring and have decided to farm Jr. Member accounts. A lot of them.

People were already really just farming Juniors because that's all they needed to join bounties. To maximise profits they just created dozens of them and this was big business hence why we needed some merit requirement to stop this abuse. It's been made a little harder now but one merit still isn't much and is too easy to abuse, hence why I think we should make it ten.

And this is essentially a form of merit selling (users wait 2 to 4 weeks in this case).
I believe that the account-trading community/market isn't actually too interested in Hero/Legendary accounts (for now).

Well they don't really have a choice. 'Farming' high ranked accounts in any significant number has become practically impossible. Nobody is going to waste 1.4 years trying to farm Heroes, especially when the chances of them getting the merit is going to be incredibly difficult. The only people who will become Heroes now are those that are committed to just one or two accounts and can make great posts. Prior to the merit system any shitposter who had the time and energy could farm as many accounts as they liked because as long as you made the shitposts over time then you'd hit the rank eventually. Farming accounts industrially is out of the question now really, but shitposting with Juniors and Member ranks isn't.


copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
It has always been normalised here. If we allow it then why wouldn't people do it? There's some serious money to be made from account farming and high-ranked accounts are worth more than ever right now especially when Hero and Legendaries are going to become very, very rare to achieve with the merit requirements. -snip-
(oof, that's a mighty wall)

I would have expected a sharp decline when the whole "emails can reset passwords for up to 2 weeks" security addition was implemented. The fact that account trades would then need to take at least 2 (+ some time) weeks for a safe transaction (including/excluding escrow) should have dissuaded a lot of users from entering the market.

However, it seems that with the merit requirements, users have stopped caring and have decided to farm Jr. Member accounts. A lot of them. And this is essentially a form of merit selling (users wait 2 to 4 weeks in this case).
I believe that the account-trading community/market isn't actually too interested in Hero/Legendary accounts (for now). It seems that the primary form of trading is with Jr. Member and Member accounts, in which the users will subsequently enter a large number of bounties (this is why we see those massive lists of bounty-abuse alts) and spam the forum because they won't have time to post quality content.

This, added with the fact that social media accounts are also exchanged without much thought, only further drives the bitcointalk account market.
member
Activity: 168
Merit: 47
False Moon
Russian board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=236.0
It is absolutely flooded with account traders. This has become normalized.

Turkish board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=155.0
This is slightly less account-oriented than the Russian board but is still widespread.

I'm not sure how it is in the other Local boards (briefly checked Chinese and French, and there weren't a lot) but this kind of open trading just shows how ingrained the account trading business is in the boards. Not trying to target the countries at all but this seems like a case of isolated ignorance due to the board having a consensus that "account trading is not against the rules" and the fact that few DT members will ever enter the boards. Something something confirmation bias, I assume.

Thoughts?

If you are willing to spend some of your time to leave a negative trust rating on those account buyers and account sellers who are dealing on threads started on the Chinese local board, I would be glad to provide you on the translation of their conversations, if you are unsure about their conversations on account dealing threads written in Chinese, just write me a pm, and I will provide you with the proper translation.

I just turned over 3 pages and found so many, DT members please mark them at will.


我要bitciontalk账号若干个,能发贴,能回复。卖者请留下QQ  translation: I want a number of bitciontalk accounts, can post, can reply. Seller please leave QQ
Account buyer/seller in this thread:wang4036relee2, rongyanjusou, rongwang, adasd83

大量出15年注册的新手号,JR号,价格美丽包您满意 translation:Sell A large number of newbie/JR accounts registered at 2015, the price is beautiful, you will satisfied.
Account buyer/seller/Inquirer in this thread: itweb1010, mmbt9908, noldor74, sphoininfo, apd23,   artapon, Myart, PackquiaoWeather, adasd83, MDLife

我需要优点和JR账号,有出售的加我QQ582743411  translation:I need merits and JR account, there are sales join me QQ582743411.
Account/Merits buyer in this thread:ppppph35

新手撸币必备jr账号   translation:Newbie need JR account.
Account buyer/seller in this thread:adasd83, lantan81383628

长期低价出niwbie, JR 级别账号       translation: Long-term low price sell niwbie/JR accounts.
Account buyer/seller in this thread:snik777, Mvp_nlthhelp

5块收newbie号    translation: 5 CNY to buy newbie accounts.
Account buyer/seller in this thread:tommyjlier,  tuigezi

8000一个sr账号有人要吗   translation:8000 CNY to sell an Sr account.
Account buyer/seller in this thread:guoqiang126, nianqing58


I have only listed a small amount of content, I have not listed the members who replied in the account transaction thread but did not ask for the price. For those members who asked about the price, I have listed them all.
legendary
Activity: 3528
Merit: 7005
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Are people really stupid enough to do this in the open?
Yes, but usually they do it with throwaway accounts so that they don't risk getting their main account tagged.

I'd love to tag local board account sellers, but I don't speak those languages and don't feel comfortable doing so without verification that a post is actually an account deal.  However, if someone I trust were to send me a PM with some sort of translation, I would be more than happy to make a call on whether to hand out feedback.

Didn't think it was that big a deal on the local boards.  I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, especially now that the merit system is in place.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1352
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I suppose the main problem is that there still exist ICOs that simply don't give a shit about negative trust and will allow those users to take their free shit-tokens (that are generated out of air at no cost) just so they can spew their site over the forum.

This.

The incentives of most people buying an account is to get on-board a signature campaign--especially about ICOs that are probably alive for only a few weeks. There are no restrictions on how should a service do their business here in bitcointalk, so irregardless of negative trusts and poor post quality, services would still accept accounts for the publicity and only that.

Perhaps prohibiting account sales should be imposed on the rules?
hero member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 588
I would like to join busting this account trading. Will look for that in philippine section. Let's see what would be the result for my scanning.

Russians are pretty much aware that this activities are highly discouraged yet still they are doing so for money(its all about the money anyways). I just wonder if those sold accounts was an hacked accounts.

I have seen quite number of hack accounts that where then speaking some sort of russian language(wasn't sure tho ill also have to look for that).
legendary
Activity: 2534
Merit: 1517
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Are people really stupid enough to do this in the open?Are they really creating threads like this on local boards?
Isn't this done in pm or on telegram, discord etc...?

There is not a real problem for them, they use a low-rank account to sell (or scam with) the main account, the post on the forum get more visibility.
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 3060
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Russian board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=236.0
It is absolutely flooded with account traders. This has become normalized.

It has always been normalised here. If we allow it then why wouldn't people do it? There's some serious money to be made from account farming and high-ranked accounts are worth more than ever right now especially when Hero and Legendaries are going to become very, very rare to achieve with the merit requirements. Heck, a Member account probably commands quite a bit of money now as ten merit is very difficult to get for a shitposter. The only way we can really stop or at least severely dent this activity and business is if we allow people to buy the benefits of the ranks via more donator titles (like Silver and Gold etc). I think this is something we should seriosuly look at doing because it will severely curb the account selling/farming/hacking market and stop a lot of people from getting scammed (there's probably more people scamming trying to sell non-existent accounts they don't even have as opposed to genuine sales right now), so let people buy the benefits of the ranks safely from the forum instead of that money going to some scumbag account farmer/hacker/scammer and it's then win-win for everyone (apart from the farmer/hacker/scammers).
hero member
Activity: 1806
Merit: 672
Even though that most of the sellers are tagged there is no stopping them in doing business in the local boards. Maybe this accounts that is posting this threads are really meant to be tagged as most of the sellers are lower ranking members, which a lot of accounts sellers are doing in order for them not to damage their own goods. Its effective as their business still continues and the transactions are almost always happening outside the forum which make it hard to tag the accounts being sold. There is something that must be done for this post not to show in the first place.
jr. member
Activity: 228
Merit: 4
Are people really stupid enough to do this in the open?Are they really creating threads like this on local boards?
Isn't this done in pm or on telegram, discord etc...?
legendary
Activity: 2338
Merit: 10802
There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain
I’ve search through a whole year’s post son the Spanish Local board, going over the obvious sections. I've only encountered 3 cases of people trying to buy an account, two of which were red-tagged by DT2, and the other didn’t insists after getting a few answers as to why he shouldn’t.
If there is any account trading on my local board, I don’t believe it is being done through posts in plain sight, except for a few stray cases per year.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
There isn't much point in showing trust in the marketplace if accounts can be sold. "Caveat emptor" is still the watchword if members can buy reputation.
I suppose the main problem is that there still exist ICOs that simply don't give a shit about negative trust and will allow those users to take their free shit-tokens (that are generated out of air at no cost) just so they can spew their site over the forum.

If managers start caring, then the ICO founders will just find managers that don't. At the end of the day, all that really matters to them is widespread publicity as opposed to making the forum spam-free.
There is point in showing trust in the Marketplace, though. If you know that you're trading with an account that's been purchased (e.g. if your account was sold) then you know to absolve the user of all their previous reputation. Along with that, it also discourages people from buying a load of accounts and consequently spamming the forum (though my previous point addresses bounties).
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 2472
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There isn't much point in showing trust in the marketplace if accounts can be sold. "Caveat emptor" is still the watchword if members can buy reputation.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
Maybe it would be valuable if the trust was shown on local boards[1].
It's shown on the Russian board, at least. Maybe trust is just not shown on some local boards?

Trust is shown in the marketplace sections of local boards. This makes sense.

Example: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--2441439
legendary
Activity: 2702
Merit: 4002
Maybe it would be valuable if the trust was shown on local boards[1]. Therefore, tagging these accounts would not make a difference.
The same thing happens that some campaigns accept negative trust "after the devaluation of payments" and ask them to post in sections that hide trust.

The quick fix for this problem is to add more DT2 members "local [mods or any trusted member.]"

[1] https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.45666854
legendary
Activity: 2814
Merit: 2472
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What could be cool for one week is, block all duplicate IPs to log in the forum  Cheesy

Please don't do that - don't forget the Gemini members here who use alts to suit their mood of ther moment.

The easy answer is to ban account sales. At best, a bought account will be used for sig spamming. at worst it will be used for cheating and fraud.
copper member
Activity: 2562
Merit: 2510
Spear the bees
If you are willing to spend some of your time to leave a negative trust rating on those account buyers and account sellers who are dealing on threads started on the Chinese local board, I would be glad to provide you on the translation of their conversations, if you are unsure about their conversations on account dealing threads written in Chinese, just write me a pm, and I will provide you with the proper translation.
Yeah, there are a couple in which I really can't figure out without actual translation. I'll send the threads over in a bit.
Thus other users could post the translation of these negotiations when they occurred in the local foruns.
Definitely do this. Although online translation tools can usually identify obvious instances, sometimes it's a bit unclear what they're saying.
staff
Activity: 3206
Merit: 575
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In the Portuguese section, there are no such offers right now. I could translate if I find any. But I think it would be interesting to have a topic in the reputations section where several people could put the link of such deals that are taking place. And some DT1 or DT2 member would commit to tag the users involved.

Thus other users could post the translation of these negotiations when they occurred in the local foruns.
Your suggestion is very good, it would be good to start a thread on the reputation section that deals on the issues with account traders making deals of accounts trading on all local boards across this forum, the users who understand the native language of each local boards could easily translate the conversations between the account buyers and account sellers, this would surely makes it more easier for DT members to leave negative trusts on account dealers who are trying to avoid getting themselves negatively rated by conversing in different languages other than english.
legendary
Activity: 2394
Merit: 2223
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Prevent account sale will very difficult if rules are not reconsider. Especially on local board, because most of DT are not able to read and identify it. Also account seller and buyer never care about red tag, mostly they has been using newbie account for account sale. Due to not against rules also moderators are not able to take action.


Best solution is account sale should be restrict officially. So that moderators will able to trash thread and OP will ban. It's not possible control by trust system since we don't know every local board language.

hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 526
In the Portuguese section, there are no such offers right now. I could translate if I find any. But I think it would be interesting to have a topic in the reputations section where several people could put the link of such deals that are taking place. And some DT1 or DT2 member would commit to tag the users involved.

Thus other users could post the translation of these negotiations when they occurred in the local foruns.
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