Canaan Announces 11 Series | Bitcointalksearch.org

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: philipma1957 on October 28, 2019, 10:23:31 AM

[...]

I suppose there may be a small chance and the tariffs could go away, but even with above, not working in my circumstances. Sad

Still does not make a lot of sense for me at 10c kWh, but thanks for the info. At least I can sit on the sidelines and watch the ASIC wars from the bleachers!

As for me, I would make 19c a day after electric. Yech! Using above 31TH at 2,200 watts, at 10c kWh. So right now with a Bimain S9i, I purchased this summer (dubious never to ROI..my ASIC hoard is down to this ONE unit now)

I'd make -31c USD per day at the above rate according to https://whattomine.com/asic anyway at my dubious 10c kWh rate. I make underclocked at a stable 13.27TH and 1,100 watts, well don't really make, I lose, Hardly worth the extra 19c with a loss. So that boat doesn't float. Anyway (gets popcorn) will continue to watch from the sidelines in the bleachers!

Good prices though, if not yet justified by the price, might have taken a chance on some on hope/prayer of BTC price going up still and stabilizing.

Not with the tariff, however. Sad

Brad

MoparMiningLLC

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Phil - they also have the 1026 w/ 35 TH for under 800 @ 708 ***EDIT*** I see you listed the 35 TH on your post at the end.

https://canaan.io/avalonminer-1026-35t-october-batch/

I do not see anything about MOQ - but I assume that is after you contact them as you cannot purchase it via the link. I like the 708 price tag for 35 TH -- the efficiency is not bad at 67 J/TH

I know Bitmain has ones at 39 J/TH - but that is at a huge price increase with the tariff as well to be added on top.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

yeah here goes

this is a 628 price 31t maybe 2200 watts to do 31t

https://canaan.io/avalonminer-1026-31t-october-batch/

if you buy one it is no trump tax as it is under 800

this one is 648 price is 32t maybe 2220 watts to do 32t

https://canaan.io/avalonminer-1026-32t-october-batch/

if you buy one it is no trump tax as it is under 800

problem is how to buy 1 over seas since moq is 60

if you buy 60 trump tax is in effect.

these two units are listed here.

https://canaan.io/store/

along with other gear

they have a 31t a 32t a 33t a 34t a 35t all under trump tax if you can order 1.

Searing

copper member

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Clueless!

Quote from: philipma1957 on October 27, 2019, 05:54:04 PM

If they sell the 1026 with moq of one no trump tax.

If they ship a moq of 60 of them to blokforge trump tax.

Not sure what you mean by above moq? of one no Trump tax? Am I missing a memo here somehow?

Could you clarify for us on this thread? This whole tariff one day a new one coming another not so much is confusing as hell

likely won't get any, but I like to watch the ASIC porn of new equipment and other folk getting it (I'm sooooo..bored not mining anymore) Sad

thanks

brad

Philipma1957cellphone

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Ship one on monday then one on thurs. then one on mon and one on thurs. No trump tax legally.

minefarmbuy

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We are not retail.

Likely not avoiding the tariffs on the their MOQ. Still decently priced. We're looking at a fulfillment channel to ship singles from and get these out under de minimis for our group buy.

edit: could even throttle shipments in a similar way for a single buyer.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

If they sell the 1026 with moq of one no trump tax.

If they ship a moq of 60 of them to blokforge trump tax.

wndsnb

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Looks like they've reduced prices. Response to Bitmain's price drops? $1978 for the 1166 and $1204 for the 1146.

Also added a new 10 series model, 1026.

https://canaan.io/store-2/

minefarmbuy

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We are not retail.

Yea, saw the update and our canaan rep confirmed the moq the other day. Think our listings went up yesterday morning.

wndsnb

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And right on cue BTC price tanks below $7500... lol. I'm sure that'll put a damper on the Blokforge orders.

4 Month delivery is just too long, I'll just wait and see what happens. I wish they would have just waited until at least mid-Dec. if not Jan. to offer these.

Biffa

legendary

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Which just gives you a link to email them, where they tell you the MOQ is 60 Roll Eyes

Wait for them to go live on blokforge I guess if us peons what to buy one or two.

[edit] Which they are now: https://blokforge.com/product-category/new-miners/

First time in ages Canaan is power competitive with the competition. (S17, M20S)

Still not as good as the S17-Pro or S17+ but they are mucho dinero.

wndsnb

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I emailed Canaan sales and asked for details. I just got a reply this morning. They say the MOQ is 60.

11 Series now on the website.

https://canaan.io/store/

minefarmbuy

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We are not retail.

Yea got the emails too, asking for clarity on MOQ and we'll have listings up as soon as possible. The dual psu input is a turn off to me even though convenient for most buildout. Still hesitant to run one on a single c19/20 cable though even with 30A 240V lines. After Innosilicon's continued delays, MicroBT as well and bitmain's low inventory on 17+ models and pricing roller coaster Canaan probably has the edge in market but only if you're patient enough. Feb is a long way out, the pricing is decent but I would expect it to get better unless market pumps.

HagssFIN

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Electrical engineer. Mining since 2014.

Quote from: philipma1957 on October 19, 2019, 09:34:21 AM

The a10 has a completely different GUI design. Maybe that change is in part why they did not publish the source code for it.

Yep, but if they still use the cgminer and openwrt, they should publish the source code.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: frodocooper on October 19, 2019, 06:51:15 AM

I beg to differ.

Canaan announced the A721 on 2016-11-07. Commit 04e6a4b, titled Add Avalon7 support, was committed by qinfengling on 2016-07-29 and published by Canaan in the avalon7-dev branch of their cgminer repository on 2016-11-05. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A721's version of cgminer two days before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A821 on 2017-12-20 at the latest. Commit 6786bbd, titled Add Avalon8 support, was committed by qinfengling on 2017-09-11 and published by Canaan in the avalon8 branch of their cgminer repository on 2017-09-27. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A821's version of cgminer roughly three months before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A921 on 2018-09-19 at the latest. Commit fbc869b, titled Add Avalon921 support, was committed by Johnson-Fan on 2018-09-10 and published by Canaan in the avalon9 branch of their cgminer repository on 2018-09-11. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A921's version of cgminer roughly eight days before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A10 at 2019-03-28T15:21Z. It is now almost seven months since the official announcement and there is still no published source code for the A10 in any of their GitHub repositories at the time of writing. The only entry for the A10 to date is the avalon10-docs repository, which merely contains a manual for the A10's API.

The a10 has a completely different GUI design. Maybe that change is in part why they did not publish the source code for it.

frodocooper

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I beg to differ.

Canaan announced the A721 on 2016-11-07. Commit 04e6a4b, titled Add Avalon7 support, was committed by qinfengling on 2016-07-29 and published by Canaan in the avalon7-dev branch of their cgminer repository on 2016-11-05. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A721's version of cgminer two days before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A821 on 2017-12-20 at the latest. Commit 6786bbd, titled Add Avalon8 support, was committed by qinfengling on 2017-09-11 and published by Canaan in the avalon8 branch of their cgminer repository on 2017-09-27. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A821's version of cgminer roughly three months before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A921 on 2018-09-19 at the latest. Commit fbc869b, titled Add Avalon921 support, was committed by Johnson-Fan on 2018-09-10 and published by Canaan in the avalon9 branch of their cgminer repository on 2018-09-11. In other words, Canaan published the source code for the A921's version of cgminer roughly eight days before they officially announced the miner.

Canaan announced the A10 at 2019-03-28T15:21Z. It is now almost seven months since the official announcement and there is still no published source code for the A10 in any of their GitHub repositories at the time of writing. The only entry for the A10 to date is the avalon10-docs repository, which merely contains a manual for the A10's API.

kano

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Quote from: frodocooper on October 18, 2019, 11:13:09 PM

It appears that Canaan has stopped publishing their source code in their GitHub repositories since the release of the A10 series. Given that the A10 (and presumably the A11) use cgminer — at least according to the only available documentation for the A10 — Canaan appears to have followed in the footsteps of the other manufacturers in violating cgminer's license.

If the A10 and A11 are using OpenWrt as the base OS, then Canaan is also violating OpenWrt's license by not publishing the source code for their fork of OpenWrt.

This is a regrettable development.

I doubt it.

Since if you check history, rather than guessing, they've usually released it later than the miner.

However, -ck also effectively shut down the cgminer git so go complain to him.

fccs

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Quote from: wndsnb on October 18, 2019, 12:16:35 PM

They tweeted this our this morning as well. Still isn't clear what "partners" means, but they tweeted it out for everyone to see so maybe it is a public offer.

https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1185183766223839232

https://i.imgur.com/JJEwJYJ.png

I think it means customers or previous assumed buyers. I got the email as well saying the exact thing.

frodocooper

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It appears that Canaan has stopped publishing their source code in their GitHub repositories since the release of the A10 series. Given that the A10 (and presumably the A11) use cgminer — at least according to the only available documentation for the A10 — Canaan appears to have followed in the footsteps of the other manufacturers in violating cgminer's license.

If the A10 and A11 are using OpenWrt as the base OS, then Canaan is also violating OpenWrt's license by not publishing the source code for their fork of OpenWrt.

This is a regrettable development.

wndsnb

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They tweeted this our this morning as well. Still isn't clear what "partners" means, but they tweeted it out for everyone to see so maybe it is a public offer.

https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1185183766223839232

taserz

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Created AutoTune to saved the planet! ~USA

Quote from: wndsnb on October 18, 2019, 08:54:50 AM

Pricing looks good now compared to all other options, but nearly 4 months until delivery?!

It's interesting that they list Qty 1-99, previously they did not take direct orders for small quantities so you'd have to go to one of the distributors. I wonder if that is going to change for these batches.

The email suggests that the coupons are only for "partners", so guessing they won't be given to everyone.

The prices and efficiency are on point though.

wndsnb

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Pricing looks good now compared to all other options, but nearly 4 months until delivery?!

It's interesting that they list Qty 1-99, previously they did not take direct orders for small quantities so you'd have to go to one of the distributors. I wonder if that is going to change for these batches.

The email suggests that the coupons are only for "partners", so guessing they won't be given to everyone.

philipma1957

legendary

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'The right to privacy matters'

So order one for a1156 for 1265 get 56 th and a coupon
Buy an a1166 for 2055-212 = 1843 get 68 th

Cost of 3168 plus shipping 124th and you have a 212 left over coupon maybe see it for 68
Cost of 3100. This is pretty cheap. But February is a long ways off.

P.s.
I got the same email
I have gear due
Oct
Nov
Dec

I would not mind scheduling some of these for Feb and Jan

I wonder if they would allow PayPal as bitmain allowed PayPal for this last batch they put out.

AlecMe

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Just got this by email:

Quote from: Steven Mosher

Avalon Partners,
We appreciate your long term commitment and loyalty through the peaks and valleys of bitcoin working together with us to decentralize mining. It’s time to arm your farm for the next bitcoin bull run.

We want to share some exciting news with you. Our Avalon11 series will open for sale and we have a reward for our partners. Please read to the end to understand the October Offer and then email [email protected] or you can try my personal mail; [email protected]

AVALON 1166 -68T
First the Avalon 11 -68T series. The flagship version will ship at 68TH and 47 J/TH. Testing now shows performance above 71TH, and we may push it higher, but for now we are being conservative with the spec. There will also be a A11-56T at 56J/TH

Pricing and availability (and additional info)

A11-68T Qty 1-99 Price including PSU $2055. ($/TH = $30.22 ; @47 J/TH => 3196W/h)

A11-56T Qty 1-99 Price including PSU $1265. ($/TH = $22.58 ; @56 J/TH => 3136W/h)

Availability: First customer ship is estimated to be The week of Feb 21,2020.

Avalon Partners Reward Offer
Offer Period closes on Oct 31,2019

Choose your coupon: $212 on A11 Purchase, $142 on A10 purchases

Eligibility:
1. Partners who pay outstanding balances earn one coupon per machine

2. Partners making new A10 Series\ A11 Series purchases paid in full by Oct 31 earn one coupon per machine

Coupon validity:
1. The coupon is valid until November 30, 2019, and the unused coupon expires.
2. From the coupon issue date to November 30, 2019, if the bitcoin price exceeds USD 10,000, the unused coupons will be cancelled

Edit: no mentions on the company website yet, https://canaan.io

A small comparison with Bitmain gear (only the one available to place an order now):

S17 PRO - 50th/s - $2503 (shipping 7 days after full pay) 50$/TH; 39.5J/TH, 1975 W/h

S17e - 64th/s - $2323 (shipping in January 2020) $36.29/TH; 45J/TH, 2880 W/h

S9 SE - 16th/s, shipping in 7 days after full pay - $26.87/TH; 80J/TH, 1280 W/h

S9K - 14th/h, shipping 7 days after pay - $18.78/TH; 85J/TH; 1190W/h

What are your thoughts? Will it drive Bitmain's price a bit lower?
I believe yes and no; the Halving is coming and February delivery is so so; but I have to admit the prices are better for the Avalon gear.

sidehack

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Curmudgeonly hardware guy

And safer. I've replaced 15A outlets in hosting that were drawing maybe 8A continuous and started to melt. Asking a cable and socket to run near 100% all day for multiple years isn't very smart. A mechanically solid connection like screw terminals is one thing but a friction fit like a blade/socket is different.

Actually, my opinion, the whole extreme density concept miners are built with now is stupid. I get that it allows them to shave off some overhead percentage by increasing the total cost of the miner that is chips, but the customer is demonstrably seeing none of that savings right now. Floorspace and shelfspace cost is almost nothing compared to operating cost, specifically power and maintenance and exhaust. With extreme density comes greater need for maintenance (and greater chance of fatigue and failure and fire) and tighter ventilation (and intake filtering) requirements for the meager savings of a half square foot per machine.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

To clarify sidehack

The issue is c19/c20 cable and socket rates 16amp 24/7/365

So:

16 amp x 208 = 3328 watts
16 amp x 220 = 3520 watts
16 amp x 230 = 3680 watts
16 amp x 240 = 3840 watts

this cable is well made and is one of your better choices to run the gear.

https://www.amazon.com/NEMA-L6-30P-C19-Power-Cord/dp/B004WOE85S

I have 3 units pulling 3300 to 3500 watts using those cables they are whatsminer and they downclock when my volts drop too low. my guess is this will be an issue sooner or later.

It simply would have been a lot easier to have these units use 2800 watts or even 2600 watts.

sidehack

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The problem isn't the noise. The problem is how much current the one power cable and its connections can handle safely. Not just that but how much they can handle indefinitely, since the machines rolling out now will need upwards of two years service life just to break even.

dogjunior

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Quote from: fccs on October 14, 2019, 01:46:52 PM

The funny thing is, this again, will probably not do that well due to the same issue inno, whatsminer, and now canaan all seem to be too blind to see vs bitmain. 1 power connector. Bitmain has 2 on all there miners. So bitmains miner that would be 3000w = pdu friendly, everyone else... = not friendly. This would be pretty interesting especially if price but yea, 1 connect is a no go for many of us.

If you run in a data center, they can handled the power requirements. A home miner makes it more difficult not not impossible. I am running my M20S with one C19 on lower power at 1950 W on a 20A 208 circuit. I could push it to the normal setting but then it would go to 3150 W. More noise that I can hear in my living room from the garage.

fccs

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Quote from: sidehack on October 15, 2019, 10:39:41 AM

And if I was doing it I wouldn't build a machine requiring a 3300W PSU.

That would be the common sense answer lol

Philipma1957cellphone

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Quote from: sidehack on October 15, 2019, 10:39:41 AM

And if I was doing it I wouldn't build a machine requiring a 3300W PSU.

this is my thought. Get a 2800 pull use a c19 and no issue with a 208 3 phase supply.

sidehack

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Curmudgeonly hardware guy

And if I was doing it I wouldn't build a machine requiring a 3300W PSU.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Quote from: Philipma1957cellphone on October 15, 2019, 09:46:12 AM

I am going to order a t17 I will open psu and check its insides. I will show photos. The two plug design knows you have one plug.

Which would imply that it is a dual PSU.
If not, barring using 2 power relays wired to monitor each input and open/close the circuits (pricey & bulky) the only other way to isolate the power inputs so you don't (usually) have a live cord end when unplugged would be to use 2 bridge rectifiers, 1 for each power inlet, to give the raw DC that is fed to the switching portions of the supply. While it would mostly satisfy that safety aspect it also raises a few questionable design points regarding the current ratings of the bridge rectifiers and what happens if a portion of one shorts.

Either way, as a designer I'd go with the single high current power inlet even if it means breaking the mold of how it was done in the past. It's just the right way to do it. In my book since large farms already have to deal with the very different cases, power inputs just become another part of what they need to change.

sidehack

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Do the *17 miners have four boards or three? An odd number of boards would weigh against an internally dual supply.

Philipma1957cellphone

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I am going to order a t17 I will open psu and check its insides. I will show photos. The two plug design knows you have one plug.

NotFuzzyWarm

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

Quote

Apparently canaan didn't get the memo though so hey whatever. lol

Or they just prefer to follow some semblance of proper electrical design (tho yes they *are* pushing the plug rating) vs winging it and letting the chips fall where they may. Wink

fccs

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Same, 3200-3400w on 1 cable into a pdu is way too much. My pdu's as most are 15amps each bank as well. I don't run more than 12amps each bank, meaning 24 amps each pdu into a 30amp 240v outlet. So this one plug stuff is tiresome and the reason sales are crap and will most likely be. Whatsminer m21s, an m20s are very very easy to get, and get at a rather good price these days in stock ships today. No one wants them because most places do not want to direct plugin to wall. Bitmain knows this, and solved that issue. Apparently canaan didn't get the memo though so hey whatever. lol

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Single cable with 2500 watts is fine

single cable with 3220 watts is not fine for me. Clifton is 208volt 3-phase we run around 217-227 volts with a drop to 187-190 at times.

3220/208 = 15.48 amps a c19 is 16 amp for 24/7/365

but Canaan is smarter then the whatsminer's m20s that gear is 3450 watts which is not code for a c19 as

3450/208 = 16.58 amps.
3450/217 = 15.89 amps.

I have 2 whatsminer m20s so far they are good on the 208 3 phase with the one cord. they have a down clock function if the psu runs out of balls due to lowered volts they downclock the unit. every once in a while my m20s drop from 68 /69 th to 50th I have determined that happens we we get the voltage drops.

If the new cannan/avalon gear does this then it is not a big issue.

NotFuzzyWarm

legendary

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Evil beware: We have waffles!

A single connector makes no difference to me. My pdu's have outlets for both c14 and c20 male ends so is piece of cake to use it with the correct c20 to c19 cordset. Of course can only power 2 per pdu though...

As I mentioned earlier in one of the BM threads, what I'd like to know is if the BM miners have 2 psu's in the 1 case as that is the only way using 2 feeds to 1 device would be permitted by electrical codes. IF those power inlets are simply in parallel with each other there are several very bad possible situations that come to mind, 1 being the male end of a cord being live when unplugged from the wall...

fccs

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The funny thing is, this again, will probably not do that well due to the same issue inno, whatsminer, and now canaan all seem to be too blind to see vs bitmain. 1 power connector. Bitmain has 2 on all there miners. So bitmains miner that would be 3000w = pdu friendly, everyone else... = not friendly. This would be pretty interesting especially if price but yea, 1 connect is a no go for many of us.

wndsnb

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A reply to a question on Canaan's twitter account says the first batch will be end of January, beginning of Feb.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: digital$ on October 12, 2019, 02:41:36 PM

single phase(80 amp input)in my small garage setup wired into a DB box fitted with 5X30amp breakers...breakout leads to 10 plugs, these 3kw+ units are forcing me to consider a 3-phase supply. i'm assuming these will run consistent 10-12+ amp output each unit...not much headroom in my setup :/

Photo shows 1x c19 and these are about 3200 watts so 14 amps x 230 = 3220 watts

if you are running these 4 x 14 = 56 56/80 = 70% so 4 units for you

A lot depends on ship time and price. they claim 47 watts a th that is good.

digital$

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single phase(80 amp input)in my small garage setup wired into a DB box fitted with 5X30amp breakers...breakout leads to 10 plugs, these 3kw+ units are forcing me to consider a 3-phase supply. i'm assuming these will run consistent 10-12+ amp output each unit...not much headroom in my setup :/

Philipma1957cellphone

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Yeah it is all industrial gear. Numbers looked good for a 82f room.

AlecMe

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Goood , another 3kw miner Angry

No hope for the little guy after this halving if this carries on Embarrassed

On the other hand, I am glad there is some serious competition already to Bitmain, let's hope those prices will drop Roll Eyes

wndsnb

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Looks like their demo shows it running at 72.4th

https://twitter.com/canaanio/status/1182847955205705731

Philipma1957cellphone

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70 th at 46 watts is 3220watts hopeful to get one to test it.

wndsnb

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Canaan apparently announced their 11 series the same day as Bitmain announced the S17+ and T17+.

A1166 - 68th at 47 w/th
A1146 - 56th at 57 w/th

No details on when they will be available.

https://news.8btc.com/bitmain-canaan-launch-70t-cryptocurrency-miners-prepared-for-the-upcoming-bitcoin-halving

This article claims slightly different numbers. 70th @ 46 w/th for the A1166 and 58th - 61th for the A1146

https://news.bitcoin.com/4-new-high-powered-bitcoin-miners-revealed/

Update: February batches now posted on https://canaan.io/store/

Topic: Canaan Announces 11 Series (Read 1135 times)