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Topic: Canada Taxing Bitcoin Transactions (Read 4834 times)

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1001
March 09, 2016, 03:07:05 AM
#55
It looks like the rules of taxation for bitcoin will soon be taking effect

Canada’s Revenue Agency says users of bitcoins are obligated to pay taxes on transactions using the alternative currency, The agency told the CBC that two tax rules apply to the digital currency, depending on how it’s used. Barter transaction rules apply to bitcoins used for goods or services, according to the report.  Bitcoins bought and sold for speculative purposes are subject to captial gains or income taxes, depending on the specifics of the case, the agency says

 http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/04/29/canada-to-tax-bitcoin-transactions/
i dont know what the effect of this taxtation of bitcoin trnsaction,is here canadian who can speak directly what really happen there?and what effect of this all?
i hope some countries not follow canada for now,i think this is not a correct time.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
March 09, 2016, 12:21:09 AM
#54
We have the right to private property...

Negative.  No property rights in Canada.  Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982.

Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away?

A subject can own property at Her Majesty the Queen's good pleasure, and she allows a market in the trade of property, but there is no protected right to such property.  For example, if a particular firearm is reclassified as prohibited, you may be required to surrender said firearm without compensation.  If the government wants your property, it can take it, and there are many laws that can be invoked to that end.  For example, read the Alberta Emergency Management Act.

That's pretty scary. I'm sure it's never really happened though, right?
newbie
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
March 08, 2016, 07:40:33 PM
#53
We have the right to private property...

Negative.  No property rights in Canada.  Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982.

Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away?

A subject can own property at Her Majesty the Queen's good pleasure, and she allows a market in the trade of property, but there is no protected right to such property.  For example, if a particular firearm is reclassified as prohibited, you may be required to surrender said firearm without compensation.  If the government wants your property, it can take it, and there are many laws that can be invoked to that end.  For example, read the Alberta Emergency Management Act.
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
March 08, 2016, 11:04:18 AM
#52
This thread slept for three years since post #43.
Have there been any development during that time in canada?


No one really cares what happens in Canada. All they want to do is eat Mintchips and jellies.

hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 501
March 08, 2016, 10:36:48 AM
#51
This thread slept for three years since post #43.
Have there been any development during that time in canada?
legendary
Activity: 2156
Merit: 1393
You lead and I'll watch you walk away.
March 08, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
#50
We have the right to private property...

Negative.  No property rights in Canada.  Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982.

Really? No property rights at all? What keeps Terrance and Phillip from forcing you to take a pound of back bacon and some jellies as payment for taking your house away?
sr. member
Activity: 1274
Merit: 278
March 08, 2016, 02:46:28 AM
#49
at least they dont shut all banks accounts

Some of the banks have already closed some Canadian exchanges accounts. They are afraid of Bitcoin and what it means to their fees or Nickle and Diming customers to death.

The banks have not prepared to take the advantage of bitcoin and it is quite new. So they will stifle the competition. After they know they can make more profits with bitcoin, they will use it.
legendary
Activity: 3542
Merit: 1965
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
March 08, 2016, 02:41:12 AM
#48
From all the legislation proposals I have seen so far, this makes the most sense. In this way, merchants knows how to tackle the barter taxation and can adhere to that and make the decision to accept the currency much easier. The Bitcoin traders and speculators also know how to declare their income and profit and pay Capital Gains accordingly. The normal individual tax payer, can now also use the currency with Blockchain proof of income and expenses and it will be easier to declare your tax at the end of each financial year.

Pay your taxes, they will find you in the end, if you don't. ^hmmmm^
newbie
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
March 08, 2016, 01:46:40 AM
#47
We have the right to private property...

Negative.  No property rights in Canada.  Intentionally omitted from the Constitution Act of 1982.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1012
★Nitrogensports.eu★
March 06, 2016, 02:33:14 AM
#46
As a canadian personally, Im not a big fan of the idea, I think taxing btc/fiat conversions, you'll see candian adoption slow. A big part the draw of BTC is the pseudo-anonymity and lack of taxes, plus ease of moving money country to country. As soon as we start getting taxed by governments, were straying from the original idea of decentralization IMHO. (I realize MANY would argue BTC is not decentralized at all, but discussion for another day)

I don't think it will particularly slow things down. The Canadian government has just explicitly spelt out that gains on bitcoin would be taxable and they have done it way back in 2013. Even in countries which are silent on bitcoin, taxation experts would tell you that the tax treatment would be the same (treat bitcoin as an investment and pay taxes on gains).
legendary
Activity: 1007
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2016, 11:38:29 PM
#45
As a canadian personally, Im not a big fan of the idea, I think taxing btc/fiat conversions, you'll see candian adoption slow. A big part the draw of BTC is the pseudo-anonymity and lack of taxes, plus ease of moving money country to country. As soon as we start getting taxed by governments, were straying from the original idea of decentralization IMHO. (I realize MANY would argue BTC is not decentralized at all, but discussion for another day)
hero member
Activity: 850
Merit: 1000
March 05, 2016, 11:08:03 PM
#44
I see this as a good sign. If they're willing to tax it, that means they are recognizing it as a currency (or less likely, as a a commodity like the US SEC). If they tax it, that will further legitimize BTC. Don't get me wrong - I hate excessive or even moderate taxes, but a little is necessary for a government to function.
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
March 05, 2016, 06:35:25 PM
#43

That's not the way our government works. They cannot outlaw bitcoin. We have the right to private property and there is a long standing coupon called "Canadian Tire Money" that is widely used. If you look at the development of Canada's banking and money you will see many private coupons. These were all legal.


https://www.linkedin.com/in/hammiehill



Hammie Hill owned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forzani_Group.

Quote
In 2011, Canadian Tire bought Forzani for $771 million, and has since embarked on a large scale brand restructuring.

Canadian Tire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tire

Quote
The retailer is known for its Canadian Tire money, a loyalty program first introduced in 1958, where customers are provided with coupons resembling paper money worth 0.5% of their purchase that can be used in subsequent purchases as scrip at Canadian Tire stores and gas stations.

Which begs the question: Is Satoshi Nakamoto Canadian?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
May 04, 2013, 06:00:54 PM
#42
Guys you cannot trust canada they are known to ripoff investors
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
May 04, 2013, 05:29:38 PM
#41
hero member
Activity: 727
Merit: 500
Minimum Effort/Maximum effect
May 04, 2013, 12:58:47 PM
#40
Well I have read the Thread and I"m thinking about the ultimate end game.

This is what I know about Bitcoin;

It is traceable if someone observes the movement from the ISPs, so not absolutely anonymous, but you can always use TOR. Smiley

The Canadian government has a Bitcoin clone: MintChip... it's ready to roll, this tax announcement is the pre-emptive strike; banks can't stop something backed by the Canadian government, FINCEN will have to take this into account. MintChip is legal within Canada for paying taxes. If governments wish to extend their life, they will have to build their own Bitcoin clone for their territory.

Centralized exchanges are traceable and must report their transactions, so capital gains will apply to people exchanging their bitcoins.

Since Bitcoin is untraceable by a regular business(ISPs can track it) it can only be taxed by the business, this will eventually create a business location taxation scheme, F the source of the cash, our resources were used to make it, and these businesses fall under our jurisdiction; There is no way around this. Bitcoin is unstoppable, and can only be controlled at it's choke points, businesses.

Bitcoin transactions between people cannot be effectively traced so only at these choke points can it be taxed. Declaring your Bitcoin income is quite easy when you are being paid in bitcoins, the government knows you got paid and will take their taxes off at the point that you earned them.  

Decentralized systems built on top of Bitcoin cannot be taxed, they are automated systems built on code, but sooner or later you have to buy food from a business, so you will pay taxes off your p2p Corporation income in the jurisdiction that the business is located.

This creates an incentive for governments to build infrastructure to support and increase the efficiency of the businesses that fall under their jurisdiction to provide the resources they need to maintain their income from taxation, e.g. Better roads, Fibre optic cable to reach the most remote areas of their territory, better power infrastructure to facilitate the movement of physical resources. This will create a resource based economy.

The system that will eventually be created is one where governments are determined to allow their citizens to make a living so that they may receive the taxes from consumption; Businesses too must purchase resources to grow, point of sale taxation. This will eventually slowly but methodically increase the running efficiency of the governments themselves by forcing them to limit stupid and useless laws creation, they will have to begin running the government as a business intent on increasing their citizens purchasing power,safety and health... can't tax you if your dead.



you may wonder what if the people begin to use Encryption Networks(TOR) or Decentralized systems(classifieds,ripple), maybe even 3D printing hubs?

Encryption Networks: Can't, taxed at point of sale.

Decentralized Barter System:e.g. Kijiji; No taxation possible at point of sale; can't be monitored. but resources consumed can be taxed;

3D printing: Taxation of resources extracted from the territory

Combined system using all the above: Taxation only possible at point of Recycling or Mining extraction(orbital satellites, surveys have mapped most deposits on the planet) Eventually home extractors will make resources 100% recyclable... end of governments as we know them, taxation impossible, regulation impossible open source governments will take care of infrastructure, security, and health of the population. The collective will decide the fate of humanity.

End game if p2p begins to rule the planet, end of all modern corporation/governments/systems as we know them; Resources will be distributed on a need to extract basis, the scarcity of the resources will determine what you are able to print on your 3D printer, The collective of a jurisdiction will decide what to built and when if the resources are available, infinite growth of the human race... The Golden age of Earth begins.

Yup I know long... but thinking long term. I might be wrong though, there are always selfish people who will find a way to dominate others in one way or another... we could build a blockchain for that too. Smiley


legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1001
All cryptos are FIAT digital currency. Do not use.
May 04, 2013, 12:04:25 PM
#39
Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter.
Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals!



Yup... All of them Criminals, have you seen the FINCEN Guidelines?  It's a super broad guideline... it practically makes anyone who deals with game money a money launderer... depends on how bad they want to mess with you; This makes it very difficult to use in court... the absurdness would be shot down in a Canadian court. Canadian courts have the right to question, dubious laws.

We have the right to question.. that doesn't mean they will actually listen.

Canada has been the nwo/usa/un's bottom bitch for some time. No public or legal protest/action will change this unless we succeed in implementing an outright boycott of their financial, political and other systems.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1094
Learning the troll avoidance button :)
May 04, 2013, 11:59:23 AM
#38
Back to monopoly money  Grin
hero member
Activity: 727
Merit: 500
Minimum Effort/Maximum effect
May 04, 2013, 11:53:54 AM
#37
Consequently, exchanging World-Of-Warcraft Gold to Diablo III Gold is speculation, buying items in MMORPG for in-game virtual currency is barter.
Oh my god! Millions of online players are now tax evading criminals!



Yup... All of them Criminals, have you seen the FINCEN Guidelines?  It's a super broad guideline... it practically makes anyone who deals with game money a money launderer... depends on how bad they want to mess with you; This makes it very difficult to use in court... the absurdness would be shot down in a Canadian court. Canadian courts have the right to question, dubious laws.
newbie
Activity: 46
Merit: 0
May 04, 2013, 11:34:26 AM
#36
Lets say i have 100 BTC and im looking for some USD. You have 10,000 USD that you are willing to trade. I launder my BTC, send them to you, and you hand me 10,000 USD.

You think im going to fill out a 1099 for this? you have to be out of your f*&$ing mind. If you sit there and fill out a 1099 and willingly give your money to someone whos trying to extort money from you, you belong in line at the slaughterhouse.

Likely would not get caught
Unless FINCEN starts planting people like they do to drug dealers for bitcoin
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/05/02/irs-takes-a-bite-out-of-bitcoin/
The IRS already gets a piece where you swap one product or service for another, as the IRS explains at its Bartering Tax Center. Soon the IRS may have a Bitcoin Center too. The Treasury unit called FinCEN, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, already has rules about Bitcoin and the IRS is likely to follow.

Although they  care about the big ones like you got a Ferrari bought a million dollar house and only declared 50,000 in income and are 22. Smiley

IRS takes a bite out of bitcoin. really? where? Thats a bunch of Bla Bla Bla because they cant enforce it unless you are a moron.

I send you 10 BTC: it comes from HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAH and it goes to HEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHEHEHHE

Neither me nor you traded anything. the wallets held the bitcoin the entire time. it could have been me that sent that BTC or it could have been my grandmother. and who did the BTC make richer? HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHEHEHEHE is not a person. Unless you throw IRS parties at your house, nobody is ever going to know you now have a bad ass flat screen tv in your living room.

What if 500 people share 1 wallet? What, are they going to tax the computer?

Most definitely you wouldn't get caught unless you're a good little slave and declare everything you have to the IRS. If you make yourself stand out like that then you brought it upon yourself and the state is coming to steal your property.

My bet is, something is going to blow up or some mass murder is going to occur where they will say that all weapons, or whatever, were purchased from silk road or some other awesome free market with bitcoins. There's the excuse. only a matter of time. haven't you noticed that everyone associated with bitcoins is a "hacker" now??

Dunno some IRS guy is like I want to buy 50,000 in BTC meet me at this shady place so I can hand you the cash personally
Bam IRS lol
And well the hackers are smarter than the average joe so it might make us cooler if we advertise it well Smiley

Yeah, sting operations will probably be the only way. but even that can be avoided.
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