Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system

btcdevil

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 22, 2015, 05:09:52 AM

Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system

-Very soon libsecp256k1 will be used for verification, which speeds up initial sync time by 400%-700% and reduces CPU load for all full nodes.

-A segregated witness softfork will be done ASAP (within 3-6 months, probably). This will at least double the effective transaction capacity (ie. it is equal to or better than BIP 102), and at the same time it will provide features important for safely scaling even more in the future.
-There will not be any hardfork for at least the next ~year.

-To pave the way for scalable hardfork max block size increases (which will eventually be necessary), and because it is already dearly needed, improved block/tx broadcasting technology such as weak blocks and IBLT will be implemented, hopefully soon after SegWit.

-The BIPs necessary for efficient deployment of Lightning are already in the pipeline and should be rolled out in 2016. Lightning will allow for almost all of the security, features, and decentralization of Bitcoin transactions while drastically reducing the number of on-blockchain transactions that each individual will need to perform. This is expected to be the real eventual solution to scaling.

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases

I dont know much about bitcoin transaction and technical things, but if their is any development on the bitcoin it is very good , as their would be some improvement in the blocksize transaction delays, that most of the big users are facing.

tl121

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Quote from: cellard on December 22, 2015, 07:45:30 PM

Quote from: tl121 on December 22, 2015, 06:26:31 PM

Quote from: cellard on December 22, 2015, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Amph on December 22, 2015, 06:21:34 AM

still not sure about segregated witness, if it not carry any risk, why satoshi has not think about it since the beginning, when he limited the block to 1?

i welcome the synching speed up, this is needed for those that have not strong machine, not my case, as i can sync and open the client in 20 seconds..

Yes, it will be great to be able to open the client faster, in my case, it is very much needed, because my hardware is 5 years old now. About the segregated witness feature, im not sure but if it only has an impact on light clients, it's still important because consider that most people aren't going to be running full nodes anyway, so improvements on this department are welcome.

The code speedup is a useful improvement. However, it does not increase the capacity of the bitcoin system since the capacity is limited artificially by the 1 MB blocksize limit.

Segregated witness does nothing for light clients. It may increase the network capacity in a complex way, because it changes what counts in the 1 MB block limit. It does not reduce bandwidth usage at all, so it amounts to a complex way of partially bypassing the 1 MB block limit. The same effect could be achieved with much less effort by a simple increase in the block size, say to 2 MB. Segregated witness also requires all of the clients to be updated in a non-trivial way, including SPV clients which don't care about the block limit.

What you are seeing is a political game being played by bitcoin core to make it look like they are doing something. For someone who knows how bitcoin works they are not doing good engineering. In particular, they are not following the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't do something complex when a simple change can accomplish the same thing.)

We can't raise the blocksize too much because it would compromise decentralization of nodes. For example, for me downloading the blockchain is a pain in the ass. If the blockchain gets bigger im just not going to deal with running a node. Slowly less and less people with care and we distribution of nodes will be centralized, which banks and governments would love.
But yes 2 MB seems like a good compromise, even tho it solves shit nothing in the long run tho.. in the long run we aren't scaling up without something like the LN anyway.

Downloading the blockchain was slow until a few months ago, when a change in networking software provided a big speedup, making verification the limit on most computers. In the pipeline is faster software for validating signatures, which should provide another large speed up. As the size of the blockchain expands (as it will with time unless Bitcoin dies) there will be more pressure onto software improvements to speed things up. This pressure will be maximized if the block limit is raised or removed. Finally, it is possible to prune the block chain and this is in the process of being phased in.

oldbute

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Quote from: countryfree on December 22, 2015, 01:44:10 PM

What do you think is safe? We must keep a safety margin, don't we? On my hard disks, I always keep at least 15% of free space. In my car, whose engine can rev to 6,500 RPM, I rarely exceed 4,500.

Good chance they already engineered that 15% into the 6,500 red line. My 1978 Yamaha motorbike red lines at 9,000 I try to get there all the time. Come on let those horses run!

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 22, 2015, 05:09:52 AM

Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system

-Very soon libsecp256k1 will be used for verification, which speeds up initial sync time by 400%-700% and reduces CPU load for all full nodes.

-A segregated witness softfork will be done ASAP (within 3-6 months, probably). This will at least double the effective transaction capacity (ie. it is equal to or better than BIP 102), and at the same time it will provide features important for safely scaling even more in the future.
-There will not be any hardfork for at least the next ~year.

-To pave the way for scalable hardfork max block size increases (which will eventually be necessary), and because it is already dearly needed, improved block/tx broadcasting technology such as weak blocks and IBLT will be implemented, hopefully soon after SegWit.

-The BIPs necessary for efficient deployment of Lightning are already in the pipeline and should be rolled out in 2016. Lightning will allow for almost all of the security, features, and decentralization of Bitcoin transactions while drastically reducing the number of on-blockchain transactions that each individual will need to perform. This is expected to be the real eventual solution to scaling.

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases

Cool, but make sure academic mathematicians verify those algorithms , i dont want to find out 2 years later that those algorights are flawed and can be broken.

var53

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Quote from: Sir_lagsalot on December 22, 2015, 07:55:47 PM

A BIP update should already have been rolled out. We can all see the effects already, with the usual 0.0001 BTC TX fee, we are starting to have to wait multiple blocks. Recently, I withdraw from a gambling site which forced me to use the 0.0001 TX fee, and it took me 6 hours to withdraw.

Good to see bitcoin changing, not just all proposed changes.

I tried withdrawing from a site that forced me to use the usual 0.0001 BTC TX fee, and getting a single confirmation took over an hour. My transaction was missed out of five blocks that were mostly crammed so full they were almost up to the 1MB limit. However, my transaction was also missed out of a few very small blocks that had plenty of room left to include it. The apparent spare capacity isn't always being used.

It was frustrating for me, but for noobs it could be a problem that puts them off Bitcoin. I understand that things are slowly changing, but a noob wouldn't.

n2004al

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 22, 2015, 05:09:52 AM

Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system

-Very soon libsecp256k1 will be used for verification, which speeds up initial sync time by 400%-700% and reduces CPU load for all full nodes.

-A segregated witness softfork will be done ASAP (within 3-6 months, probably). This will at least double the effective transaction capacity (ie. it is equal to or better than BIP 102), and at the same time it will provide features important for safely scaling even more in the future.
-There will not be any hardfork for at least the next ~year.

-To pave the way for scalable hardfork max block size increases (which will eventually be necessary), and because it is already dearly needed, improved block/tx broadcasting technology such as weak blocks and IBLT will be implemented, hopefully soon after SegWit.

-The BIPs necessary for efficient deployment of Lightning are already in the pipeline and should be rolled out in 2016. Lightning will allow for almost all of the security, features, and decentralization of Bitcoin transactions while drastically reducing the number of on-blockchain transactions that each individual will need to perform. This is expected to be the real eventual solution to scaling.

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases

The improvements are welcomed and needed. First of all those who have to do with blockchain. There are every day more and more problems with it. First was the problem of confirmations (without following the line). Which continue to exist. But are added others. Unknown before. Like the last one happen to me. I sent bitcoin in one destination yesterday and even are confirmed were not at destination. I am losing interests on this amount sent and no one know when my bitcoins will arrive. From the currency of freedom and fastness is becoming the currency of embarrassment and the problems. Why don't make the improvements before the problems appears and happen? Why wait that be problems to act? Cannot understand such behavior.

Amph

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i leave this , it's useful, because the limit will not be increased as average as many were believing

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/segwit-soft-fork-is-probably-the-best-possibility-for-investors-right-now-1299293

Sir_lagsalot

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A BIP update should already have been rolled out. We can all see the effects already, with the usual 0.0001 BTC TX fee, we are starting to have to wait multiple blocks. Recently, I withdraw from a gambling site which forced me to use the 0.0001 TX fee, and it took me 6 hours to withdraw.

Good to see bitcoin changing, not just all proposed changes.

cellard

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Quote from: tl121 on December 22, 2015, 06:26:31 PM

Quote from: cellard on December 22, 2015, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Amph on December 22, 2015, 06:21:34 AM

still not sure about segregated witness, if it not carry any risk, why satoshi has not think about it since the beginning, when he limited the block to 1?

i welcome the synching speed up, this is needed for those that have not strong machine, not my case, as i can sync and open the client in 20 seconds..

Yes, it will be great to be able to open the client faster, in my case, it is very much needed, because my hardware is 5 years old now. About the segregated witness feature, im not sure but if it only has an impact on light clients, it's still important because consider that most people aren't going to be running full nodes anyway, so improvements on this department are welcome.

The code speedup is a useful improvement. However, it does not increase the capacity of the bitcoin system since the capacity is limited artificially by the 1 MB blocksize limit.

Segregated witness does nothing for light clients. It may increase the network capacity in a complex way, because it changes what counts in the 1 MB block limit. It does not reduce bandwidth usage at all, so it amounts to a complex way of partially bypassing the 1 MB block limit. The same effect could be achieved with much less effort by a simple increase in the block size, say to 2 MB. Segregated witness also requires all of the clients to be updated in a non-trivial way, including SPV clients which don't care about the block limit.

What you are seeing is a political game being played by bitcoin core to make it look like they are doing something. For someone who knows how bitcoin works they are not doing good engineering. In particular, they are not following the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't do something complex when a simple change can accomplish the same thing.)

We can't raise the blocksize too much because it would compromise decentralization of nodes. For example, for me downloading the blockchain is a pain in the ass. If the blockchain gets bigger im just not going to deal with running a node. Slowly less and less people with care and we distribution of nodes will be centralized, which banks and governments would love.
But yes 2 MB seems like a good compromise, even tho it solves shit nothing in the long run tho.. in the long run we aren't scaling up without something like the LN anyway.

tl121

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Quote from: cellard on December 22, 2015, 06:02:07 PM

Quote from: Amph on December 22, 2015, 06:21:34 AM

still not sure about segregated witness, if it not carry any risk, why satoshi has not think about it since the beginning, when he limited the block to 1?

i welcome the synching speed up, this is needed for those that have not strong machine, not my case, as i can sync and open the client in 20 seconds..

Yes, it will be great to be able to open the client faster, in my case, it is very much needed, because my hardware is 5 years old now. About the segregated witness feature, im not sure but if it only has an impact on light clients, it's still important because consider that most people aren't going to be running full nodes anyway, so improvements on this department are welcome.

The code speedup is a useful improvement. However, it does not increase the capacity of the bitcoin system since the capacity is limited artificially by the 1 MB blocksize limit.

Segregated witness does nothing for light clients. It may increase the network capacity in a complex way, because it changes what counts in the 1 MB block limit. It does not reduce bandwidth usage at all, so it amounts to a complex way of partially bypassing the 1 MB block limit. The same effect could be achieved with much less effort by a simple increase in the block size, say to 2 MB. Segregated witness also requires all of the clients to be updated in a non-trivial way, including SPV clients which don't care about the block limit.

What you are seeing is a political game being played by bitcoin core to make it look like they are doing something. For someone who knows how bitcoin works they are not doing good engineering. In particular, they are not following the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't do something complex when a simple change can accomplish the same thing.)

cellard

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Quote from: Amph on December 22, 2015, 06:21:34 AM

still not sure about segregated witness, if it not carry any risk, why satoshi has not think about it since the beginning, when he limited the block to 1?

i welcome the synching speed up, this is needed for those that have not strong machine, not my case, as i can sync and open the client in 20 seconds..

Yes, it will be great to be able to open the client faster, in my case, it is very much needed, because my hardware is 5 years old now. About the segregated witness feature, im not sure but if it only has an impact on light clients, it's still important because consider that most people aren't going to be running full nodes anyway, so improvements on this department are welcome.

Graphics

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I actually have no idea what capacity increase means, could someone explain it to me? Huh

Sorry for being dumb lol.

LFC_Bitcoin

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Good to see, I'm glad that there has been some kind of agreement to take us forward, also very glad that XT is dead & that Hearn & Andresen are having nothing to do with any decisions.

brg444

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Quote from: tl121 on December 22, 2015, 05:42:08 PM

Beware of propaganda. There is controversy regarding these changes. There are other internet sources where you can see other viewpoints on this issue, such as r/btc.

^

Viewpoints may include character assasination, baseless slander, sociopathic behaviours, delusional tendencies, self-projection, pathological lies.

Enter at your own risk and perils.

tl121

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Beware of propaganda. There is controversy regarding these changes. There are other internet sources where you can see other viewpoints on this issue, such as r/btc.

techmanuk

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Very glad about the change to the initial sync time will be improved!

countryfree

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Quote from: franky1 on December 22, 2015, 08:39:21 AM

Quote from: Siftanfib on December 22, 2015, 06:52:07 AM

If the effort means smooth change of the bitcoin block size, it will be good. But 6 months is too long.

average data per block at the moment is only 66%.. still plenty of room for a while...

What do you think is safe? We must keep a safety margin, don't we? On my hard disks, I always keep at least 15% of free space. In my car, whose engine can rev to 6,500 RPM, I rarely exceed 4,500. The margin for more transactions is very small in my opinion. Average data per block should always remain below 50%.

vilain

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on December 22, 2015, 05:09:52 AM

Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system

-Very soon libsecp256k1 will be used for verification, which speeds up initial sync time by 400%-700% and reduces CPU load for all full nodes.

-A segregated witness softfork will be done ASAP (within 3-6 months, probably). This will at least double the effective transaction capacity (ie. it is equal to or better than BIP 102), and at the same time it will provide features important for safely scaling even more in the future.
-There will not be any hardfork for at least the next ~year.

-To pave the way for scalable hardfork max block size increases (which will eventually be necessary), and because it is already dearly needed, improved block/tx broadcasting technology such as weak blocks and IBLT will be implemented, hopefully soon after SegWit.

-The BIPs necessary for efficient deployment of Lightning are already in the pipeline and should be rolled out in 2016. Lightning will allow for almost all of the security, features, and decentralization of Bitcoin transactions while drastically reducing the number of on-blockchain transactions that each individual will need to perform. This is expected to be the real eventual solution to scaling.

https://bitcoin.org/en/bitcoin-core/capacity-increases

Those are very similar improvements as those annouced by the most recent fake-Satoshi (everyone seems to be over that right now). This probably means that, although not the real satoshi, he works close to him Roll Eyes

franky1

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Quote from: Siftanfib on December 22, 2015, 06:52:07 AM

If the effort means smooth change of the bitcoin block size, it will be good. But 6 months is too long.

average data per block at the moment is only 66%.. still plenty of room for a while.. the reason transactions may take longer then one block to finally get admitted into a block is no due to data bloat, but due to miners preference to only allow fee added tx's.

in short there has never been a constant 0.99mb filled block problem, so i prefer them spending 6 months alpha-testing all these new concepts privately before releasing them as a formal beta public update

Quote from: Amph on December 22, 2015, 06:21:34 AM

still not sure about segregated witness, if it's not carry any risk, why satoshi has not think about it since the ebginning, when he limited the block to 1?

i welcome the synching speed up, this is needed for those that have not strong machine, not my case, as i can sync and open the client in 20 seconds..

i too am not sure about segwit. as its a benefit only for lighter clients.. the whole allowing for twice as much tx's is not quite true either. but atleast its a soft fork (only for lite clients.) and not a hard fork (affecting proper nodes)

Siftanfib

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If the effort means smooth change of the bitcoin block size, it will be good. But 6 months is too long.

Topic: Capacity increases for the Bitcoin system (Read 1163 times)