Topic: Capitalism is destroying us. - page 2. (Read 1398 times)

Do you have any idea of how revoltingly privileged you are, and how arrogant and myopic you sound to everyone else? OFC you don't.

Really I am not sure how you manage to get your head that far up your ass. What you have is not knowledge, it is conditioning. It is the kind of "knowledge" a parrot has. You absorb and regurgitate. You have little to no ability for critical thought or logic. You think that if anyone disagrees with you they simply haven't been conditioned enough yet to understand your advanced ideology.

No, it could not be that you advocate for ideologies that directly result in loss of life and freedom from your position of extreme privilege, understanding what you advocate for only on the most superficial levels. It must be that everyone else is just ignorant and needs to hear you ramble about returning the means of production to the workers a few more times before they "get it".

Socialists and Communists are masters of the superficial. They are good at talking and fantasizing, but when it comes to empirical data, evidence, history, science, basically anything not totally subjective they have problems.

We don't have.  Everyone has the same opportunity to improve their financial situation.  They might not have the same ability, but the information is out there for anyone who cares to read it and use it in their lives.

The "privilege" you talk about is an excuse people use to justify their laziness. Keep knocking on those doors, some of them will open for you eventually.  

Nobody in NA is privileged.  Bunch of immigrants from all around the globe.  If someone discriminates you in any way, don't do business with them, keep going, don't delve into it.  Who cares.  Keep going, focus on your success.

Having privilege has nothing to do with working your ass off.  It just means that no factors prevented you from succeeding.  The "little bit of luck" is also privilege.

I don't know a single socialist who wants economic equality or equality of outcome.  Nowhere has that been stated on this board so that is a straw man.  Socialists are mostly privileged individuals fighting for the rights of the downtrodden. It is mostly a privileged group because it takes privilege to have the time to go online and discuss politics.  It takes privilege to find yourself burdened with the guilt of your lavish lifestyle coming at the expense of tho poor worker.   It takes privilege to have the education to diagnose the root causes of the problems plaguing humanity.  It takes leisure time to sit back and imagine a better world.  Do you think people working two jobs to stay afloat have time to delve in economic theory?    Poor people often don't have the option to boycott capitalist institutions like walmart or amazon either nor do they have the option to resist the overwhelming saturation of ads for beer, unhealthy food, cars, and all the things you say they shouldn't be buying.  The poor are coerced into being complicit in their own undoing.


Sounds great! Most socialists will agree with you.  Now that we have found common ground, lets work together to guarantee everyone the opportunity to fix their financial situation, start a company, and have time to read for leisure. 

You insulted me with your privilege comment.  I worked my ass off.  Was discriminated, and you tell me I was privileged?

You may as well just punch me in the face.

Why have more money?  If you live in a capitalist society, you need capital (tangible or intangible as I was trying to explain in these threads about socialism).

The key is to know when to say enough is enough.  Hang your hat and retire.

How you are lazy?  By association.  Socialists are lazy by definition.  They want stuff for free.  They want economic equality.  They demand equality of outcome.

I am telling you, the capitalist system is the best system to become financially independent. But you need to work 18-20 hours per day, 7 days a week.  Work and study harder than anyone you see around you.   Be the best you can be. 

But like with everything in life you need a little bit of luck.  And for fuck's sake stop talking about socialism.  No boss will promote you if you start talking about some socialist bullshit in front of him/her.  Business is about profit.

Fix your financial situation, stop working for others.  Start a company and let others contract your company.  Read books by guys like Robert Kiyosaki, learn his quadrants.  Figure out where you fall in his quadrants.  You will forget about the bullshit socialist ideology.

I am not trying to offend you.  Privilege is not something meant to be offensive but it is clear that people in power did not prevent you from getting where you are today.  That is privilege.  Don't be ashamed of it.  Privilege has nothing to do with what you have done with your life.  

Capitalism breeds conditions in society that make people over aggressive, greedy, and non empathetic to those who struggle.  Then capitalists claim this state of society their conditions created is "human nature".  Its definitely human nature under capitalism.   People who have lived through the artificial scarcity of capitalism are conditioned to have a "me me me" mentality even after they overcome those conditions and move into the capitalist class.

I don't understand why you want to insult me? Is is simply because you thought I was insulting you?  I know I am privileged but how am I lazy? Pushing for a political revolution against the grain of the status quo and against the entire global power dynamic; trying to convince people to believe in something they have been programmed to believe is evil; and all in the name of the greater good.... seems like the LEAST lazy thing one could do. 

It takes a great degree of privilege to live a life that allows you to open your mind to socialism.   Once humans have enough money to buy all of the things they desire, they have the real chance to realize true happiness is not derived from money.    Money is great to the degree that it allows for you to buy the things you desire, but once you have everything you desire, what good is it to have more money?  Why have more money just for the sake of having more money? That is perversion.    Capitalist advertising and culture feeds this perversion.  

You little prick.  My mother was a cleaning lady, my father was a car mechanic. Privileged my ass.

I came to North America when I was 22, with $600 in my pocket, no English, no university degree.  Worked in construction, aluminum extrusion factories, farms, and bakeries. Went to community college, then was admitted to an Ivy league school based on my academic record.  Went to complete my Electrical and Computer Engineering undergrad and graduate degrees with an A average.

You little, privileged, lazy fuck.

I made my first million at 40.  Few more before I retired at 52.

Go fuck yourself you little twit.  You obviously know nothing about life.  I was homeless before I came to NA.  You fucking twit.

I am not going to waste my breath on fucks like you. I was giving you a good advice on how to succeed in a capitalist society.

But you have read too many socialist propaganda books to really understand the fundamental beauty of the capitalist system.

Have you noticed how all of the things that you say generate capital require that people be born with one of them?   You can't decide to be born with good looks, abilities, skills, or capital to buy education or generate more capital.  People who aren't born into these things need a miracle just to break free.  Any system where most of the people in the world need a miracle to gain their freedom is a tyrannical system.   80% of wealth is inherited.  Its a rigged system.


Financial dependence requires power.  You don't care about power because you don't have to.  That is called privilege.  People born into capital do not experience the failure of capitalism.

The bold step is exactly what I, the socialist party, green party, and DSA all want to do.

And where are Americans moving?To the countries that are on the top of the list when it comes to economic freedoms.

Capitalism is similar to using your private property to gain more private property.

Bad capitalism is when some people use their private property to steal the private property from other people. Often this is done through embezzlement.

Socialism is when capitalistic private property owners voluntarily use some of their private property to help the less fortunate.

Bad socialism is when socialists suggest that they are going to use private property donated to them to help the less fortunate. Then they use it for their own capitalist activities instead.

The thing that is destroying us is the crime of embezzlement, and the lies.

It is called a capitalist system for a reason.

If you have no money, your capital is your looks, abilities, and skills.  You can use them to generate tangible capital (money, real estate, stocks, and bonds etc).  

Capital (money, personal looks/abilities/skills, real estate, stocks, and bonds) generates more capital.

It is really simple.

As for power, I don't care about it.  Once you are financially independent (i.e. you don't have to actively generate capital, your capital generates more capital while you sleep) you can live anywhere, so who gives a flying puck who is in power.  Only psychopaths seek power, IMHO.

All these socialist pricks who want to change the system, why do they do this?  Because they want to help workers?  No, they seek power.

If you want to help workers set up a business and employ people to help them better their lives (and enrich yourself in the process).  That is how you help workers.  They are called workers for a reason.

And who controls education?
You REAAAAAAAAAAAALLY need to fuck up seriously to lose a big capital. Especially has you just have to split a tiny part of your capital interest to compensate the poors having the abilities you're lacking in order to succeed...

So we're finally going forward...
You then admit you that capitalism rewards the combination of capital + abilities.

Well empiric analysis will allow you to see that the most important factor in this equation is CAPITAL. You can have all the skill in the world without capital you're really close to nothing. And you can be the most stupid people in the world if you have a tremendeous capital it doesn't count.

That's the answer capitalism gives. You're rich? You can be completely low skilled it's not important, you'll just be rewarded a bit less than if you were skilled. You're poor? Well if you're smart enough you might become a rich slave one day. You'll still have 0 power but as you're usefull you'll have a full belly and a nice car.

Overpopulation has proven those skills can be replaced by lower offers, up to the point you are not able to survive with your skills alone because your country is too expensive compared to others, overpopulation is actually one of the major problems of capitalism.

Education is probably the most important factor when it comes to economic mobility.  At least at the beginning of one's career.

You need the ability to accumulate capital to be successful in the capitalist system.  If you have the capital but don't know what to do with it, the system will quickly absorb your capital and you will be left with nothing.  Because you deserve nothing.

Capitalism does not reward capital directly, but capital can generate more capital.

If you don't have any capital, you need the ability/skills/looks to generate capital.  That is your capital.

The problem is: we don't have a better alternative, at best we can get capitalism with democratic socialism.

Since humans require work to survive, work owe to be paid and with money people want to own property.
Without property you remove the value money hold and therefore the value of the reward.

What's destroying us is greediness and corruption not capitalism itself.

Most people today are completely brainwashed in capitalism and corporatism.

They believe that efficiency and innovation can only come from private companies and that shareholders and traders are essential to this world because their almighty skills and abilities allow them to sort the good and the bad and invest only in the good.

That's incredible how people can be so blind at all the examples of how fucked up capitalism is and how efficient public companies can be.

Health system in USA is 15% of GDP while health system in France is 10% of GDP. The difference? France has a public healthcare while USA is private. And don't try to talk about quality, France has always been ahead in terms of health services that's probably what France is best at with nuclear.

In the head of people public means inneficient and biased while private means efficient and fair. How can you even think this while looking at the big companies and shareholders behaviour? The main difference between public and private is that public don't have to make a profit so they're ALWAYS cheaper and better as a service... I'm yet to be given ONE example of a previously public company who benefited of becoming private ON THE LONG RUN.

Cause sure when public companies are sold to private shareholders everything goes well at first. The newly opened market is extremely competitive! Low prices, innovations... But once the market gets a winner you can forget all this, services becomes shit and prices skyrocket.

Look at tansportation costs of UK ( https://londonist.com/2011/11/london-transport-fares-2000-2012 ) evolution! After going private the cost skyrocketed up to 240% its initial value in just 10 years xD

So efficient yeah

I must say that the best products have not really come from capitalism but piggy backed on government innovations.  Its a strange idea that people would stop wanting and making good products just because the whole process isn't being done on behalf of a group of shareholders who are not part of the process at all. 

So you agree to say that capitalism rewards abilities?

Then why is there a 99% economic immobility in capitalist countries? Just explain that.

Economic immonibility is stronger in capitalist systems than in any other ones, and it's the proof that capitalism does NOT reward ability only capital.

Just address THIS point please

You're just in a stupid "capitalism is better than socialism" thinking which is absolutely not the point of this thread... Let's say you're right and capitalism is better than socialism ok? It's not the point anyway so it doesn't matter.

I mean YOU are the one talking about socialism. I've never even brought socialism in the debate it's you who did that...

Again, I think you don't understand either system.

In capitalism, smart people become capitalists sooner rather than later and the average or stupid people are workers all their lives.

If you have a better idea for a fairer system, let's hear it.  Just don't come out and blab about socialism.

Socialism is best at ruining economies, making ALL people poor in the process.

If course unchecked action of some companies will ruin the environment.  That is the job of the government to protect the country resources and its environment.  

You have never seen how companies in the socialist countries dumped chemical waste to rivers?  I have seen it with my own eyes.  So shut the fuck up about the socialism, already.

The resources will be used and the environment will be polluted no matter the economic system.  This issue has a root cause in the population growth.   Population growth should be zero, not 1-3% as seen in some countries.

Capitalism is a more natural environment for humans. Because universal equality, as under communism, cannot be in nature, it is utopia.
The strongest survives in human society, the one who works more, the one who becomes smarter. It's quite normal.
There are poor and rich people in capitalism, but everything depends on the person. It is possible to escape from poverty and live very well. But for this you need to make an effort.

"Thinking outside the box" and being assured of your position at the pinnacle of human evolution is not a substitute for logic.