Capitalism will make socialist ideals a reality

Naida_BR

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Quote from: SneakyLady on September 04, 2018, 05:20:09 PM

Socialist countries may have happier citizens because their basic needs are covered and they wouldn't starve if they're out of the job, but you don't see much innovation coming out of these countries. Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon-these are products of capitalism. People are abundantly awarded for their work because don't have to pay astronomical income taxes in capitalist countries.

The way I see it, this process is now on its way to making socialist values a reality. "Equality of the people" is among the most prioritized.

The latest technology being driven by financial gain seems to be AI and VR/AR technology. This will be the great equalizer of the people. Things will become much cheaper to produce, and once-exclusive experiences will be available to everyone for very cheap. All things are on their way to becoming accessible to all people in the developed world, due to the inherently low cost of digital assets.

Thoughts on this?

You can't see any innovative technological advance from the socialist countries because they aren't so much right now. We have capitalism all around the world and this trend moves the global economy. In the past years, USSR had many innovations that were coming from scientists that were living there, the problem is that these ideas were filtered a lot from their leaders.

Snaic

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Quote from: Dimon8 on September 05, 2018, 07:34:13 AM

Socialist ideals for the common man are good, but in different countries and among different peoples, their customs and traditions, which can strongly contradict the socialist system of the state.

Virtually every socialist country has always slowly slipped into an authoritarian form of government. On paper everything was beautiful, the slogans were about equality and justice, but in fact everything was the opposite. That is why the USSR actually collapsed. In the name of the people, the people were in fact oppressed and destroyed. Capitalism has been freer and more open.

jcarlo

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I think capitalism system is better than socialist system. In capitalism system, we earn from what we do, if we do hard work, we get good result. In socialist system, people do hard work or lazy get the same thing and i think its not fair

NotoriousHodler

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Quote from: tenakha on September 26, 2018, 04:39:03 PM

I see capitalism as a chance given to people, deserves this chance who can prove himself. As far as I know, in socialism there was no such thing as "democracy". A certain limit has been put on people and who exceed were punished huge.

Yes, capitalism gives everyone (well, almost) fair chance to become someone in their life. But there can't really be democracy in socialism, as those things aren't really connected. Limit was put to people, because ideal concept never worked because people implementing it were flawed.

tenakha

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I see capitalism as a chance given to people, deserves this chance who can prove himself. As far as I know, in socialism there was no such thing as "democracy". A certain limit has been put on people and who exceed were punished huge.

kenel

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this constant observation of what is happening in this area has never left anyone indifferent. I believe that the cryptocurrency is a new round of events in the framework of

Kprawn

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For me it is all about quality living. Many people in Socialist countries accept a certain quality of living, because most of the

people around him or her, live at the same level. (Mostly Middle Class or Poor) In a Capitalist system, people are rewarded

for their individual "inputs" and the more you bring to the table, the more you get rewarded. So if you can add quality skills or

services, you can earn a much bigger income and your family will thrive and even become filthy rich. So, if I were given the

choice to be rewarded, based on my individual "inputs", then I would rather chose a capitalist system. Yes, it might not

distribute wealth equally, but the reward is much higher. Why should I have to work my ass off to pay for some other lazy

person, that does not want to work that hard, to have the same quality of living? I will rather pay taxes to support those

people who cannot get work or who do not want to work. (They will just have to accept that they will have to live at a much

lower quality lifestyle, based on their "inputs" into the economy.)

Bitcoin cannot thrive under a Socialist system, where people are not incentivised to work harder and to come up with some

innovative ideas, where they are not rewarded for those ideas. Roll Eyes

cellard

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 11, 2018, 09:32:03 AM

Quote from: Samarkand on September 09, 2018, 01:36:26 PM

Why do you think that an eradication of poverty leads to a reduction in the crime rate?
I´d argue that this may be true for some types of felonies, but things like white collar
crime shouldn´t be influenced by this at all. Besides, a big welfare state
opens up completely new opportunities for crime (e.g. people that claim welfare
payments while earning additional funds by dealing drugs or similar stuff).

Correct.

Criminals (regardless of their nature) are one of the most flexible and creative entities in an economy. In most cases they are always a few steps ahead of everyone else, and I don't see this change at all. People somehow think when this or that happens, everyone will have a better life and there is less criminality, but the nature of the beast is that it adapts to every new situation and keeps doing what it inherently taught itself to do.

It's time for people to stand up for themselves and don't rely on anyone else in order to make the world a better place. If everyone just keeps waiting for governments to take action, we'll be in the exact same situation in 2030 without any booked progress. I'm glad I stepped up right on time, but the sad thing is that everyone around me is still doing the same things they did years ago, have not changed of opinion, and will likely never change of opinion. It's their loss in the end.

Typically the masses only react when it's too late, so I wouldn't be hoping for some kind of revolution to happen, that's delusional. What is interesting is to see what will happen once SHTF and everyone except some elite living in Elysium are living a decent life, since machines will have made all possible attempts of making money impossible. That is coming, again I don't care if it takes 100 or 1000 or 10000 years, those that are otherwise are deluded by thinking "oh but new forms of jobs will appear".

Quote from: Samarkand on September 09, 2018, 01:36:26 PM

Quote from: cellard on September 09, 2018, 12:23:53 PM

...
How Bitcoin will play out in this scenario? who knows, but the sane thing is to be holding a decent amount just in case.

Bitcoin will obviously go to the moon. Just imagine what will
happen when increasingly AIs make investment decisions.
Faced with the decision between inflationary fiat currencies
and a hard currency like BTC, they will obviously allocate funds to Bitcoin.

Quote from: lightcar on September 05, 2018, 07:40:13 AM

I'm in favor of socialism because it makes society a much safer place. If you eradicate poverty the crime rate would plummet.
,,,

Why do you think that an eradication of poverty leads to a reduction in the crime rate?
I´d argue that this may be true for some types of felonies, but things like white collar
crime shouldn´t be influenced by this at all. Besides, a big welfare state
opens up completely new opportunities for crime (e.g. people that claim welfare
payments while earning additional funds by dealing drugs or similar stuff).

I also think that bitcoin may play a role in the concept of entities that aren't human holding wealth and transacting, but there are more reason to hold it. Perhaps as a way to hold value into a transition to something else in the future. The blockchain would still hold what you own, a government in deep trouble may not. The fact that his is the case makes it valuable.

1Referee

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Quote from: Samarkand on September 09, 2018, 01:36:26 PM

Why do you think that an eradication of poverty leads to a reduction in the crime rate?
I´d argue that this may be true for some types of felonies, but things like white collar
crime shouldn´t be influenced by this at all. Besides, a big welfare state
opens up completely new opportunities for crime (e.g. people that claim welfare
payments while earning additional funds by dealing drugs or similar stuff).

Correct.

Criminals (regardless of their nature) are one of the most flexible and creative entities in an economy. In most cases they are always a few steps ahead of everyone else, and I don't see this change at all. People somehow think when this or that happens, everyone will have a better life and there is less criminality, but the nature of the beast is that it adapts to every new situation and keeps doing what it inherently taught itself to do.

It's time for people to stand up for themselves and don't rely on anyone else in order to make the world a better place. If everyone just keeps waiting for governments to take action, we'll be in the exact same situation in 2030 without any booked progress. I'm glad I stepped up right on time, but the sad thing is that everyone around me is still doing the same things they did years ago, have not changed of opinion, and will likely never change of opinion. It's their loss in the end.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: anushkasachith888 on September 05, 2018, 01:37:05 PM

What we have to accept is, Capitalism has destroyed the world now. We don't know how long the modern civilization will last with this situation? I think we must live in harmony with the environment. otherwise, we cannot survive. Nature will react soon.

From a historical perspective, a hard form of socialism was attempted on a large scale in both stalinist russia and maoist china. In both instances socialism was tried and found to be an inferior system. To compete economically on a global scale, both socialist russia and socialist china were forced to abandon socialism in favor of capitalism which has proven to be a better system.

In terms of capitalism vs socialism there are two options present. Either people have the freedom and right to own property, start businesses and patent / copyright their intellectual property. Or people lack these basic freedoms and rights under socialism where the government owns everything and controls everything.

Suffice it to say, the narrative which demonizes and attacks capitalism without providing much evidence or detail to support this thesis is totalitarian in origin.

Silberman

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Quote from: anushkasachith888 on September 05, 2018, 01:37:05 PM

What we have to accept is, Capitalism has destroyed the world now. We don't know how long the modern civilization will last with this situation? I think we must live in harmony with the environment. otherwise, we cannot survive. Nature will react soon.

And you think that socialist and communist countries live in harmony with the environment? Because that is false as well, if that is what you want then you do not need a change from capitalism to socialism what we need is to change the way we think about the world and about growth, just take a look at the way we consume, people buy clothes every week or month when in the past people kept and maintained stuff for years or decades

Samarkand

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Quote from: cellard on September 09, 2018, 12:23:53 PM

...
How Bitcoin will play out in this scenario? who knows, but the sane thing is to be holding a decent amount just in case.

Bitcoin will obviously go to the moon. Just imagine what will
happen when increasingly AIs make investment decisions.
Faced with the decision between inflationary fiat currencies
and a hard currency like BTC, they will obviously allocate funds to Bitcoin.

Quote from: lightcar on September 05, 2018, 07:40:13 AM

I'm in favor of socialism because it makes society a much safer place. If you eradicate poverty the crime rate would plummet.
,,,

Why do you think that an eradication of poverty leads to a reduction in the crime rate?
I´d argue that this may be true for some types of felonies, but things like white collar
crime shouldn´t be influenced by this at all. Besides, a big welfare state
opens up completely new opportunities for crime (e.g. people that claim welfare
payments while earning additional funds by dealing drugs or similar stuff).

genuin

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I agree with what you think, but I think there is a group of elites in the world who design all this to master the world economy, we know that we must follow the prevailing system so that everyone does not all have the freedom to do economic activities.

cellard

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Merit: 1252

The truth is, as automation continues improving and getting rid of jobs, on a long enough timeline the majority of people will be rendered out of any possible employment. At that point what you have is a ton of people unable to meet coverage of basic needs.

So what are you going to do about it? I only see two options:

-Minimum wage of sorts is implemented to avoid massive rioting due big amounts of desperate people within your country.

-Annihilation of population: The elite gets rid of the masses because they no longer need them (and guess what, we are the masses, don't be deluded to think otherwise)

Outlook looking not so good. And I don't care if it takes 20 or 1000 years, eventually machines will be able to do most tasks.

How Bitcoin will play out in this scenario? who knows, but the sane thing is to be holding a decent amount just in case.

Dice-Bet

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Quote from: SneakyLady on September 04, 2018, 05:20:09 PM

Socialist countries may have happier citizens because their basic needs are covered and they wouldn't starve if they're out of the job, but you don't see much innovation coming out of these countries. Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon-these are products of capitalism. People are abundantly awarded for their work because don't have to pay astronomical income taxes in capitalist countries.

The way I see it, this process is now on its way to making socialist values a reality. "Equality of the people" is among the most prioritized.

The latest technology being driven by financial gain seems to be AI and VR/AR technology. This will be the great equalizer of the people. Things will become much cheaper to produce, and once-exclusive experiences will be available to everyone for very cheap. All things are on their way to becoming accessible to all people in the developed world, due to the inherently low cost of digital assets.

Thoughts on this?

I just think of all those happy Venezuelans out there and question the first sentence...

pumbum

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perhaps cryptocurrencies will help to look at many things differently, because the possibilities of cryptocurrencies without

arbifahrozy

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there is a good deal with a social country that adopts a capitalist which has equal people's aims. like cheap goods and basic technology. just imagine things that are something that is expensive already affordable.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: SneakyLady on September 04, 2018, 05:20:09 PM

Socialist countries may have happier citizens because their basic needs are covered and they wouldn't starve if they're out of the job

I would argue that if you live in the United States, definitely a capitalist country, you won't starve to death if you're out of work. You can get food stamps and state-paid health insurance. You could live in a shelter or get housing assistance, and probably cash assistance too. There are soup kitchens, and many other forms of help for low-income folks.

Socialism has been tried before. It just doesn't work. I'm a big fan of capitalism, especially when the economy is booming (which it is now). Even during the Great Recession of 2008-12 or thereabouts, it was still the best system. I didn't read many instances of citizens staving to death in the US, did you?

koincik

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Capitalism or socialism does not matter. Every opportunity to benefit people should be assessed. We have to give up on the wrong side and try to do the right things.

anushkasachith888

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What we have to accept is, Capitalism has destroyed the world now. We don't know how long the modern civilization will last with this situation? I think we must live in harmony with the environment. otherwise, we cannot survive. Nature will react soon.

Topic: Capitalism will make socialist ideals a reality (Read 336 times)