Care about Bitcoin? STAY AWAY from the "Bitcoin Fundation" - page 4.

shad0wbitz

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Quote from: knight22 on September 27, 2012, 12:47:06 PM

shad0wbitz I think you are stressing out for nothing. What kind of power do you think the foundation will have over bitcoin?

I don't know. MtGox has been known to block accounts that were funded with bitcoin that they consider "Tainted". So you tell me. It is on the foundation letter that they plan to start a "Bitcoin verification process" and make sure these businesses are within guidelines. So what happen to the little guy that can't afford the certification, or simply wants to do things differently?

I think the community at a minimum should read their material, and I think you will quickly find that this is less benign and un-intrusive than what people think, or the board will have you think.

dancupid

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I'm personally glad to see the most successful Bitcoin businesses involved in the Bitcoin Foundation (as they should be) - but I hope there are plans to make this as international as possible. Multiple languages would help.

knight22

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shad0wbitz I think you are stressing out for nothing. What kind of power do you think the foundation will have over bitcoin?

greyhawk

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His name wasn't Shadowshi, you know? It just sounds close.

shad0wbitz

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Quote from: axus on September 27, 2012, 12:24:55 PM

Some people believe it will inevitably be made illegal. From this point of view, having a central place to exert control is a weakness. Napster and Wikileaks are good examples of network information services that brought about unpopular laws. Bitcoin is another network information service that threatens concentrated power.

This IS inevitable. Think of banking AML laws and such. Do you really believe they have anything to do with "fighting terrorism"? It is all about people paying more and more taxes, to support governments that are more and more corrupt and inefficient. We are at war, and those who do not believe this can go happily into "let's get the government to like bitcoin on facebook camp". I am personally on the side of a true Satoshian. Bitcoin was born in the shadows, for the shadows.

jgarzik

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Quote from: axus on September 27, 2012, 12:24:55 PM

Some people believe it will inevitably be made illegal. From this point of view, having a central place to exert control is a weakness. Napster and Wikileaks are good examples of network information services that brought about unpopular laws. Bitcoin is another network information service that threatens concentrated power.

None of bitcoin's fundamentals have changed.

Users continue to vote based on their choice of bitcoin client.

If users suddenly dislike a commit from Gavin, they are free to choose another client.

Just as they were yesterday.

axus

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Some people believe it will inevitably be made illegal. From this point of view, having a central place to exert control is a weakness. Napster and Wikileaks are good examples of network information services that brought about unpopular laws. Bitcoin is another network information service that threatens concentrated power.

Quote from: casascius on September 27, 2012, 12:04:29 PM

Quote from: Gabi on September 27, 2012, 11:56:39 AM

Quote

in order for government officials and executives to take Bitcoin seriously

This remember me the scene in the beginning of the movie The Scorpion King

I don't think about movies, I think about the fact that congressmen and corporate executive types not having a hand to shake helps them equate Bitcoin with that thing that criminals and gangsters use, and that thought process results in them wanting to take actions to hinder Bitcoin. I see Bitcoin as the currency of liberty, not anarchy.

Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 11:59:47 AM

I absolutely disagree. Bitcoin doesn't need government officials and executives in any form. Specially the USA government (where the bitcoin foundation is placed). The power of bitcoin always have to be in the user base. Not in governments, foundations or selfdeclared core developers.

You are right if you're talking about the Bitcoin executable and code base, but not decentralized computerized money as an anthropological phenomenon. A foundation helps greatly if we are to help it achieve acceptance by law-abiding citizens sooner rather than later. If this will help the powers that be work with us instead of against us, why is this a bad thing?

shad0wbitz

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Quote from: casascius on September 27, 2012, 12:04:29 PM

Quote from: Gabi on September 27, 2012, 11:56:39 AM

Quote

in order for government officials and executives to take Bitcoin seriously

This remember me the scene in the beginning of the movie The Scorpion King

I don't think about movies, I think about the fact that congressmen and corporate executive types not having a hand to shake helps them equate Bitcoin with that thing that criminals and gangsters use, and that thought process results in them wanting to take actions to hinder Bitcoin. I see Bitcoin as the currency of liberty, not anarchy.

Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 11:59:47 AM

I absolutely disagree. Bitcoin doesn't need government officials and executives in any form. Specially the USA government (where the bitcoin foundation is placed). The power of bitcoin always have to be in the user base. Not in governments, foundations or selfdeclared core developers.

You are right if you're talking about the Bitcoin executable and code base, but not decentralized computerized money as an anthropological phenomenon. A foundation helps greatly if we are to help it achieve acceptance by law-abiding citizens sooner rather than later. If this will help the powers that be work with us instead of against us, why is this a bad thing?

First of all, let me start this by saying that your coins are fantastic

. Now, I don't care how many hands are there to shake. Paypal will never like bitcoin. Visa will never like Bitcoin. The banks will never like Bitcoin. The ESTABLISHMENT will never like Bitcoin because they can't PROFIT from it, as they shouldn't. More over, Bitcoin is a direct threat to their bloodsucking structures they have in place. Let's not even mention inefficient and corrupt sovereign states like the US of A that need more and more tax to support the likes of their corporate pals.

Bitcoin will only be successful the day their community realizes that Bitcoin will NEVER be, and should NEVER be a mainstream product. This is why Satoshi was so particular about hiding his identity. He KNEW this. Perhaps it would refresh the memory's community to read the message Satoshi embedded on the genesis block.

This is like an ugly chick desperately begging for the popular guy to take her to prom. No matter how much make up, it won't fucking happen.

Perhaps I have a more orthodox view of what Bitcoin was intended to be, and what should be from the old (Satoshi) testament, but I firmly believe this.

jgarzik

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Quote from: casascius on September 27, 2012, 11:51:05 AM

I stand in support of the premise of the creation of the Bitcoin Foundation, and trust the intents of the individuals on its board. I disavow the OP's advice of "stay away" and disagree with the claims that it exists to annihilate the competition of its board members. I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be a foundation in order for government officials and executives to take Bitcoin seriously.

+1

OP is a bunch of conspiracy silliness.

Though jimbobway and others are absolutely right that bitcoin is bigger than any foundation. And that's the way it should be!

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Mmh...i'm thinking about your word casascius and yes, you are right. This is a sign that bitcoin is no more only a "nerdy things" but is moving in the real world.

knight22

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Quote from: shad0wbitz on September 27, 2012, 12:02:15 PM

Quote from: knight22 on September 27, 2012, 11:56:57 AM

This is not true. Central banks are the voice of the dollar or euro.

Exactly my point ... do we need a Bitcoin central bank? Because judging from the board, this is what it is.

bitcoin foundation doesn't look like any central banks at all. They will not have the power to issue any bitcoin at all. I don't think we should look at it as a threat to bitcoin.

eb3full

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Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 11:45:33 AM

In fact we don't have a "dollar foundation" or an "euro foundation".

The dollar and euro are instituted under an organization less accountable than a foundation. But the comparison is faulty, Bitcoin is software and is encumbered by a number of challenges better faced by organization and fluidity. The current design (a loose-knit team of developers, unelected, who could very carefully and anonymously backdoor the software) is not ideal, they have to be much more conservative with changes and have less talent and research to draw upon when making decisions or planning a direction for the project. This foundation is adding a presence to the development cycle, allowing people to fund its development and have a direct voice.

There is little wiggle-room for this foundation to suddenly mandate some cynical statist conspiracy. The users are still in charge of Bitcoin and always will be.

casascius

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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)

Quote from: Gabi on September 27, 2012, 11:56:39 AM

Quote

in order for government officials and executives to take Bitcoin seriously

This remember me the scene in the beginning of the movie The Scorpion King

I don't think about movies, I think about the fact that congressmen and corporate executive types not having a hand to shake helps them equate Bitcoin with that thing that criminals and gangsters use, and that thought process results in them wanting to take actions to hinder Bitcoin. I see Bitcoin as the currency of liberty, not anarchy.

Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 11:59:47 AM

I absolutely disagree. Bitcoin doesn't need government officials and executives in any form. Specially the USA government (where the bitcoin foundation is placed). The power of bitcoin always have to be in the user base. Not in governments, foundations or selfdeclared core developers.

You are right if you're talking about the Bitcoin executable and code base, but not decentralized computerized money as an anthropological phenomenon. A foundation helps greatly if we are to help it achieve acceptance by law-abiding citizens sooner rather than later. If this will help the powers that be work with us instead of against us, why is this a bad thing?

BitcoinBug

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Quote from: shad0wbitz on September 27, 2012, 12:00:54 PM

... Shad0w over and out Cheesy

Quote from: shad0wbitz on September 27, 2012, 12:02:15 PM

...

Riiight

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

I agree both with shadow and with jimbobway Cheesy

Probably i'm a bit weird

shad0wbitz

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Quote from: knight22 on September 27, 2012, 11:56:57 AM

This is not true. Central banks are the voice of the dollar or euro.

Exactly my point ... do we need a Bitcoin central bank? Because judging from the board, this is what it is.

shad0wbitz

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Bitcoin is meant to fight the state, not look for daddy's approval. Shad0w over and out Cheesy

Polvos

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Quote from: casascius on September 27, 2012, 11:51:05 AM

I agree with the sentiment that there needs to be a foundation in order for government officials and executives to take Bitcoin seriously.

I absolutely disagree. Bitcoin doesn't need government officials and executives in any form. Specially the USA government (where the bitcoin foundation is placed). The power of bitcoin always have to be in the user base. Not in governments, foundations or selfdeclared core developers.

knight22

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Quote from: jimbobway on September 27, 2012, 11:56:11 AM

I think having something (a foundation) is better than having nothing at all. Anyone can join the foundation. Anyone can create their own foundation. The problem with people like shadowbitz is that they are complaining because they don't own a successful business and they start whining about it since they are the "little guys." There will always be big players and little players and alliances will form. In the case of the Bitcoin Foundation the big players are actually trying to benefit the whole bitcoin community and the whole world and I don't see anything negative about this.

With that said, I think bitcoin is bigger than any foundation. The current Bitcoin Foundation is a corporate non-profit entity derived from the state and backed by legal laws. Some centralization is required to promote bitcoin and my guess is a "true" bitcoin foundation emerge and will be separate from the state and will be backed by multi-signature transactions and perhaps even use force (like a military). When this happens the current Bitcoin Foundation will be less important and may even dissolve just like how lovebitcoins.org dissolved. Alliances are broken and formed all the time but at this point the Bitcoin Foundation is a good thing and I hope it can last a long time and make a difference.

+1

knight22

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Quote from: Polvos on September 27, 2012, 11:45:33 AM

In fact we don't have a "dollar foundation" or an "euro foundation". Currencies don't have fans club. Noone speaks with the voice of the dollar or euro. They don't need to become more human or hire a marketing responsible. They only work as an interchange medium and a way to store value (this last point only metals and bitcoin)

This is not true. Central banks are the voice of the dollar or euro.

Topic: Care about Bitcoin? STAY AWAY from the "Bitcoin Fundation" - page 4. (Read 9837 times)