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Topic: cashout or wait till the end? - page 10. (Read 2144 times)

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 641
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 19, 2024, 12:57:52 AM


cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
i guess that it all depends on the situation involved. I know that people are basically very stubborn when it involves cashing out before the end of a game because of what I feel is a bit of greed and some thought in the mind that they will still win after the end of the game.

That's what is called maturity in gambling, the ability to know when to stop and when to continue. If it's me, I would coach out with having a second thought. It's better after caching out the game plays well and I loose the rest of the money that waiting till the end of the game and loosing out on all my money.

Remember the proverb that says that a bird in hand is far better than thousands in the bush. Let wisdom always be your watchword.
Personally, I think there are factors that determines if a gambler is gonna cash out from his his winning before the end of the game or  probably wait till end to confirm his winning or loss. For example, today staked on a particular game for the team with lesser chances of winning to win the game and during the second half of the game, my preferred team scored and which made the gambling company to give me over 70% of my potential winning which I told my friend about it and he advised me not to cash out which I obeyed his instruction and luckily for me I won that particular game
No perfect advice or decision for gambling, you may cashout when you feel it is time and it will be a good decision at that time, but at times, it will be a bad decision seeing that what you would have done but didn't do became a big win for others. This is why we should just continue to try our best in gambling and not feel hurt when we miss out or feel too excited when we win. It is all about the game and when we are right, we should just be thankful and hope for a better one next time. The reason for the advice is to avoid too much emotion, and that gamblers often make mistakes and think only about what happened today, but not minding what could happen tomorrow.

I saw that because you asked your friend before you made the decision, what if he was wrong? That is why we need to plan ahead. Making the right decision today doesn't cover for tomorrow, and for you to have asked your friend means that you were not ready for the game before you played it. If you were ready, you would be able to decide all by yourself. You will know the budget and plans for the game and what you will do no matter what. This is advised in gambling, even before you play, you know all what to do in the gambling house or on the platform beforehand.
hero member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 504
January 18, 2024, 09:15:57 PM
If that happened to me, I wouldn't think long about not cashing out because that alone is enough to give me a very big profit considering the stake is also quite big (for me) because I think cashing out that amount of money is a very big profit. We can rarely cash out that much money and we shouldn't be too greedy to want to get more remembering that sometimes there are always surprises that we don't expect. Don't wait until the final and your bet fails because it will be even more painful for you so it's better if you have an opportunity like that. It's better to cash out and enjoy your winnings so you don't regret not cashing it out.
Would be hard to do that if that ever happened to you because there's a what if that's going to happen when you're in that position, that what if being that "what if I continue and make more money from the win?" at that time you will be torn about cashing out and thinking of the things that could have happened but hasn't happened yet. Sure that's the thing that we should keep in mind, "not be greedy" but the problem is that your mind is racing at that point and you can't think straight because your neurons are firing up because you're trying to process all the possibilities and the what ifs that can happen if you do this or do that which ends to a point where you forgot the thing the right thing to do.
Indeed, I have never experience such a big wins in my life, but I once won a bet when I was given the opportunity to cash out and I don't regret it even though the result was not as big as the initial opportunity I played. And in the end my bet lost and I was lucky because I took out my money first cause I almost lost my betting money and the winnings, which in my opinion were not too big. At least if we have been given the opportunity to make a profits, it is better to cashout it immediately rather than regret it if in the end your bet loses.

It is indeed difficult to control ourselves when we are in a different situation, especially if we are in a situation like OP, maybe we will be face with confusion between continuing or cashing out the money because the gambler mind usually want a big win and thinks that it is your luck to wins big. However, you need to knows that sometimes greed always ends in bad thing.
hero member
Activity: 2814
Merit: 734
Bitcoin is GOD
January 18, 2024, 07:29:10 PM
How would you feel if you had the opportunity to cashout this amount, and later loose all?

most times people always find it difficult to cashout their fund when they have the opportunity,  due to having that mindset that they want to go home with the Goody bag. by so doing Sometimes the game will end without them winning a dime. but loosing all to nothing. while some will cashout, and later the game will end well and they will start regretting why dey didn't wait to the final.
now my question this,

cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
To each their own I guess but I will take the money without even batting an eyelid, I know that the amount show on that betting slip in the case of a full win is massive and will change the lives of most people out there, assuming those numbers represent dollars.

However the amount offered is also very important, and if you are a good investor you could easily make out some of the difference by just investing in bitcoin and hold for longer than a year, so if I was in that position I will get the money and never look back.
legendary
Activity: 2688
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January 18, 2024, 07:00:04 PM
That is a good winning mate congratulations for your win. And for your friend who advised you to not cashout early because he will know that you can make a good win in the end of the game,

Case to case basis. There's a question of "what if" if the event turned out losing on the other hand.

There will be an assumption that it's always good to cashout instead of pushing it more on the end.

Although what I always do is, just to wait until the end and dare to challenge my luck.
sr. member
Activity: 1148
Merit: 346
January 18, 2024, 06:58:33 PM


cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
i guess that it all depends on the situation involved. I know that people are basically very stubborn when it involves cashing out before the end of a game because of what I feel is a bit of greed and some thought in the mind that they will still win after the end of the game.

That's what is called maturity in gambling, the ability to know when to stop and when to continue. If it's me, I would coach out with having a second thought. It's better after caching out the game plays well and I loose the rest of the money that waiting till the end of the game and loosing out on all my money.

Remember the proverb that says that a bird in hand is far better than thousands in the bush. Let wisdom always be your watchword.
Personally, I think there are factors that determines if a gambler is gonna cash out from his his winning before the end of the game or  probably wait till end to confirm his winning or loss. For example, today staked on a particular game for the team with lesser chances of winning to win the game and during the second half of the game, my preferred team scored and which made the gambling company to give me over 70% of my potential winning which I told my friend about it and he advised me not to cash out which I obeyed his instruction and luckily for me I won that particular game

That is a good winning mate congratulations for your win. And for your friend who advised you to not cashout early because he will know that you can make a good win in the end of the game,  also that's  a good pick cause your team was a very good and Lucky enough to win their match and also they bring you some good win.  Anyways  the  prediction is good in this game but in other game we can't say that the outcome is still the same cause in gambling luck is the best bases.
legendary
Activity: 2996
Merit: 1054
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 18, 2024, 06:40:44 PM


cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
i guess that it all depends on the situation involved. I know that people are basically very stubborn when it involves cashing out before the end of a game because of what I feel is a bit of greed and some thought in the mind that they will still win after the end of the game.

That's what is called maturity in gambling, the ability to know when to stop and when to continue. If it's me, I would coach out with having a second thought. It's better after caching out the game plays well and I loose the rest of the money that waiting till the end of the game and loosing out on all my money.

Remember the proverb that says that a bird in hand is far better than thousands in the bush. Let wisdom always be your watchword.
Personally, I think there are factors that determines if a gambler is gonna cash out from his his winning before the end of the game or  probably wait till end to confirm his winning or loss. For example, today staked on a particular game for the team with lesser chances of winning to win the game and during the second half of the game, my preferred team scored and which made the gambling company to give me over 70% of my potential winning which I told my friend about it and he advised me not to cash out which I obeyed his instruction and luckily for me I won that particular game

That is also a good factor as you pick the underdog and you already accept the fact that the chance of losing your bet is possible
but with the opportunity to earn much better you decide to keep on it even you already have the chance to cash it out, and luckily your decision brings you the win that you really aiming.

It's true, depending from how a gambler set his expectation and how he treats his gambling position, though maybe for some there's always an influence of the amount of money that in stake to decide.
hero member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 576
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 18, 2024, 06:00:39 PM


cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
i guess that it all depends on the situation involved. I know that people are basically very stubborn when it involves cashing out before the end of a game because of what I feel is a bit of greed and some thought in the mind that they will still win after the end of the game.

That's what is called maturity in gambling, the ability to know when to stop and when to continue. If it's me, I would coach out with having a second thought. It's better after caching out the game plays well and I loose the rest of the money that waiting till the end of the game and loosing out on all my money.

Remember the proverb that says that a bird in hand is far better than thousands in the bush. Let wisdom always be your watchword.
Personally, I think there are factors that determines if a gambler is gonna cash out from his his winning before the end of the game or  probably wait till end to confirm his winning or loss. For example, today staked on a particular game for the team with lesser chances of winning to win the game and during the second half of the game, my preferred team scored and which made the gambling company to give me over 70% of my potential winning which I told my friend about it and he advised me not to cash out which I obeyed his instruction and luckily for me I won that particular game
legendary
Activity: 2604
Merit: 2353
January 18, 2024, 05:57:37 PM

How would you feel if you had the opportunity to cashout this amount, and later loose all?

most times people always find it difficult to cashout their fund when they have the opportunity,  due to having that mindset that they want to go home with the Goody bag. by so doing Sometimes the game will end without them winning a dime. but loosing all to nothing. while some will cashout, and later the game will end well and they will start regretting why dey didn't wait to the final.
now my question this,

cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
You dont say in which currency it is unfortunately, but usually it's not a good idea to cash out as bookmakers offer payout way lower than what they worth actually. It's a good opportunity to make money as cashout payout can't be tracked by comparators. And I wouldn't be suprised if bookies personalize cashout offers according to the profile of each customer.
sr. member
Activity: 1680
Merit: 288
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
January 18, 2024, 05:47:53 PM
cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?

This is the more reason why I normally place a bet twice like same events, so that I can cash out one of the tickets and allow the other to run till the end. One major challenge gamblers have is greed like they want to go home with all the possible return in their tickets when they can cash out the one available and use part of the winning to place the remaining events in their ticket. Though to me sometimes it might be ones luck to win all the money but due to fear and anxiety one may just cash out little amount and at the end of the day all the events plays accordingly and you start regretting why you didn't allow it to run till the end. But preferably, I like same events on two tickets so that I can cash out one along the way and allow the others to finish.

Nice ideas but it isn’t easy to always make 2 bet slips. When you bet 2 bet slips, remember that you stand a chance of losing both money. There’s no way the OP could have known that this is that game which requires to bet slips. If you lose and lose both money many times, you will be discouraged to continue staking twice and will reduce to one bet. But then, what if that is now when the OPs kind of luck condition happens? What do you do?
sr. member
Activity: 1778
Merit: 309
January 18, 2024, 11:08:56 AM

How would you feel if you had the opportunity to cashout this amount, and later loose all?

most times people always find it difficult to cashout their fund when they have the opportunity,  due to having that mindset that they want to go home with the Goody bag. by so doing Sometimes the game will end without them winning a dime. but loosing all to nothing. while some will cashout, and later the game will end well and they will start regretting why dey didn't wait to the final.
now my question this,

cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?
For me, I would rather cash that out before it turns into stone. I mean, that kind of money is huge, and if you wanted to go further without cashing it out, maybe you would miss the opportunity and begin again from the top. Whereas, if you wait to make a significant profit, it will be nothing, and you may come to regret it when you lose everything. Sometimes greediness can lead us to disappointment, and you don’t want to be that kind of person, do you?
 
I believe that you should grab the opportunity while it is still there, because we don’t know what will happen next. Some people are blinded by their own desires without knowing the value they already hold.
copper member
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1280
https://linktr.ee/crwthopia
January 18, 2024, 11:07:59 AM
To see that amount of money and lose it makes me feel a couple of things
  • Sadness
  • Revenge bets

I would probably make revenge bets knowing that you "could've" won and that makes me feel like I'm going to bet more and that's not a good thing but it's something innate in me, I think that would make myself bet more. It's definitely one of those things.

If I was in those shoes, I would still wait until the end game because I bet on what is the outcome most of the time.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1100
January 18, 2024, 11:03:20 AM
Greed has made many lost their opportunities. When such avenue avails itself,  our of greed a gambler would want play till the end but the end results is what they never bargained for and that would cost them their many opportunities they should have taken advantage of. If as a gambler, you were able to scale through the hurdles of that game to that point, and you were given an option to cash out, you should be able to know that there is every tendencies that the game might not end in your favour so what you should do is to cash out immediately and leave with what you already have at hand.and have been given the opportunity to cash out. In this type of scene, it is expected that one Cash out because that money there is very much bigger than the investment so waiting for the end of the game to win more or all is greed on the gamblers side and those sorth of gamblers always lose everything at the end.

I don't think there is greed in gambling. I think it will be better to call it high-risk. When you hear people winning big, we are surprised and sometimes we celebrate them. But we fail to understand that they won big because they took higher risks. Cashing out or leaving the game to enable one to win the maximum is a personal decision by the gambler. If you think you can take the risk, there is nothing bad to wait until you win the maximum and you should also be willing to bear the consequence if the game doesn't go as planned. However, if you think you don't have the guts or bravery to keep the game until it gets to the maximum, cash out and leave. The golden advice is don't gamble with more than you can afford to lose. Sometimes in gambling,  the higher the risk, the bigger the win.

It is rare to see or hear of any gambler who called it a quit after winning big. They only go on a short term break and are back to continue from where they stopped. This has been the norm but if there are some that stopped entirely, I have no idea about them but what I know is that most of them are just being disciplined and exercising self restraint so as not to be carried away by their wins. The option of cashing out when the option avail itself should be a good opportunity because the final results might not go down well. So taking advantage of the situation matters too to avoid a sad and devastating end results.

Utilization of big wins depends on individual gamblers. Some will gamble off all they have won because they think they could win more. Others invest the money into something profitable to enable them to fund their gambling activities responsibly. While others might decide to quit because that was their target for gambling. Everybody has personal reasons for gambling but I usually use my wins to take care of needs which will help me to save money from my work earnings.
hero member
Activity: 1092
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 18, 2024, 11:00:14 AM
It's true that gamblers all have the desire to win and as such are striving to making sure they are always victorious after  gambling and in some cases, I think gamblers need to control that urge and taste of being victorious always because that alone could make them blind and insensitive not to see and know when to call  it a quit. At some point, a gambler should be sensitive to know that when given an option to choose between cashing out or continue to the end. It is expected that as a reasonable human being or gambler you should go with what you have seen than that which you know not because it is unpredictable as you can not tell the end results as it would be so when given the opportunity to Cash out, it is expedient that you  take home with your pay otherwise you would likely regret for not making good use of the opportunity when it presented itself.
There are players who, due to their character and emotional intelligence, will never bet on a cashout, because for them there is no limit on victories and money won. Of course, he can cash out after the jackpot, but then he will still deposit this money and lose. We must remember that at some point we must have a mandatory stop, otherwise failure and disappointment await us. We must remember this when entering gambling; it cannot be neglected like most players. Do you know any players who won and left gambling forever? I think this is a difficult question not only for us.

Now imagine that these people really exist, who won the jackpot and never returned. When they spent their money, I’m just sure that they had a desire to come back again and try to win more, this will most likely torment them throughout their lives.

It is rare to see or hear of any gambler who called it a quit after winning big. They only go on a short term break and are back to continue from where they stopped. This has been the norm but if there are some that stopped entirely, I have no idea about them but what I know is that most of them are just being disciplined and exercising self restraint so as not to be carried away by their wins. The option of cashing out when the option avail itself should be a good opportunity because the final results might not go down well. So taking advantage of the situation matters too to avoid a sad and devastating end results.

Yes that's true because I think those who have won big will of course have the thought of going back to gambling because it could be that they also want another win so it's rare for them to stop when they've won but what's clear is that when they've won they actually many of them still continue their gamblings without stopping to rest.  and if there are people who win and then they immediately cash in the winnings and go to enjoy their winnings I think the steps they took were correct.

It's rare for people to gamble with good discipline many of them continue gamblings when they have won even though the best thing is to cash it in I mean even though it's their own right, of course they also don't want losses to happen to themselves and if they do They don't want that to happen they have to be able to gamble intelligently as you said it's rare to find gamblers like that.  because the temptation of gambling is also very difficult to avoid.
sr. member
Activity: 952
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Vave.com - Crypto Casino
January 18, 2024, 10:51:33 AM
It always depends on the person, I agree cashing out is a really good option, not all gambling sites have the same financial situation for matches. Many times if the amount is too much, it can be scammed. Most gamblers benefit from the cash out method as they can withdraw as much as they want without any fear of losing. If we wait till the final in any match then greed will work, no one can tell what will happen later in the match then there may be chances of losing money instead of winning. Better to come out victorious with the total amount.
When I start gambling, I start gambling with a small amount of money. When I win some amount, I withdraw a small amount of money from there. And when I lose, I deposit that money and start gambling.  Sometimes we gain and sometimes we lose. I think we should be silent while gambling because if we are distracted during gambling, chances of losing are high.
hero member
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January 18, 2024, 10:47:12 AM
It always depends on the person, I agree cashing out is a really good option, not all gambling sites have the same financial situation for matches. Many times if the amount is too much, it can be scammed. Most gamblers benefit from the cash out method as they can withdraw as much as they want without any fear of losing. If we wait till the final in any match then greed will work, no one can tell what will happen later in the match then there may be chances of losing money instead of winning. Better to come out victorious with the total amount.
Yes, cashing out would be a wise action that every gambling winner should pay attention to so they don't have to rely too much on gambling to win. By getting a temporary profit from his betting position, he should realize that it is a lot of money, even though we don't know what will happen in the future. But at least those who can see victory should be able to think about ending their gambling game before they experience bad events, such as losing a lot of money.  Not many people realize that their win is enough even to cover their daily needs, and they can cash out the money and celebrate it.
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 636
January 18, 2024, 10:37:50 AM
It's true that gamblers all have the desire to win and as such are striving to making sure they are always victorious after  gambling and in some cases, I think gamblers need to control that urge and taste of being victorious always because that alone could make them blind and insensitive not to see and know when to call  it a quit. At some point, a gambler should be sensitive to know that when given an option to choose between cashing out or continue to the end. It is expected that as a reasonable human being or gambler you should go with what you have seen than that which you know not because it is unpredictable as you can not tell the end results as it would be so when given the opportunity to Cash out, it is expedient that you  take home with your pay otherwise you would likely regret for not making good use of the opportunity when it presented itself.
I think it's just that some players who play for a long time or for a long time lose touch with reality. If they haven’t withdrawn money for a long time, then it’s like they’re playing for candy wrappers, their feeling that this is really real money is dulled, if you know what I mean. I noticed this in myself, but I think some players experience something similar. And only if I lose more than I should, I understand that I won’t have enough for the purchases I had planned. It’s good that I understand this, I think some people don’t think about this at all.

I will also add that there are also players who, having received a win and even touching this real money in their hands, will think something like “well, I won and what next.” He is not interested in hanging out or resting, he will think that it would be better to play a little more. And such a spontaneous thought will become fatal for him.
legendary
Activity: 2548
Merit: 1009
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
January 18, 2024, 09:57:20 AM
~~
How would you feel if you had the opportunity to cashout this amount, and later loose all?

most times people always find it difficult to cashout their fund when they have the opportunity,  due to having that mindset that they want to go home with the Goody bag. by so doing Sometimes the game will end without them winning a dime. but loosing all to nothing. while some will cashout, and later the game will end well and they will start regretting why dey didn't wait to the final.
now my question this,

cashing out or waiting till the end of game which is more better?

I think it depends on the case, where this will be closely related to your initial bankroll. If you start betting with a bankroll within your means, then you win $1.8 million, this is an extraordinary win, especially for me personally. then will I cash out, of course yes. I will withdraw, because the value of what I bet has multiplied even far beyond my expectations. in my case, I gamble with a bankroll I can afford. which means, it is rare to bet with a large enough bankroll. with this fairly large cashout opportunity, of course I will cash out as soon as possible, regardless of the gambling I play. the problem is different, if you are a gambler who has large finances. maybe for some gamblers, this win is just a normal thing and they will wait until the end. so not everyone will do the same thing, the same goes for gambling cases. moreover, if you believe that you are sure that you will win the battle. thus, you will only use it until the end of this bet. but, from the image displayed in this thread. if it's dollars, then only financially secure people can do it. for us ordinary gamblers, just getting a few thousand dollars is already very happy and joyful.
sr. member
Activity: 1204
Merit: 270
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January 18, 2024, 09:00:02 AM
It depends on the situation.Yesterday I had a ticket with 25 games that I was waiting from some days and I had Tottenhem 0-2 Asian handicap meaning I would get the money back if Tottenham lost by 2 goals.When the first half ended the bookies tried to scare me with dramatically going down with the cash out value of such bet.Deep down I knew that Manchester United is not capable to beat with more than 2 goals difference Tottenham so I let it ride and won.

In other cases though when I was only waiting a game with odd over 2 and I was not sure what would happen I immediately cash out those type of bets,so in the end it depends on the type of situation.
You are right indeed, it depends on a lot of conditions such as the the level of confidence one have on the remaining games like you already said. Another thing that can influence such decision is the financial situation of the gambler, if the cash out amount mean anything to him against the total amount to be won without cashing out.

Cashout option is nothing new and is always available in every bet even when the matches are ongoing, it is just a personal decision to take it or allow all the matches to finish. I have used the cash out option before and the game still went my way and I lost over 80% of the money I would have won.
It always depends on the person, I agree cashing out is a really good option, not all gambling sites have the same financial situation for matches. Many times if the amount is too much, it can be scammed. Most gamblers benefit from the cash out method as they can withdraw as much as they want without any fear of losing. If we wait till the final in any match then greed will work, no one can tell what will happen later in the match then there may be chances of losing money instead of winning. Better to come out victorious with the total amount.
sr. member
Activity: 728
Merit: 421
January 18, 2024, 08:21:26 AM
It's true that gamblers all have the desire to win and as such are striving to making sure they are always victorious after  gambling and in some cases, I think gamblers need to control that urge and taste of being victorious always because that alone could make them blind and insensitive not to see and know when to call  it a quit. At some point, a gambler should be sensitive to know that when given an option to choose between cashing out or continue to the end. It is expected that as a reasonable human being or gambler you should go with what you have seen than that which you know not because it is unpredictable as you can not tell the end results as it would be so when given the opportunity to Cash out, it is expedient that you  take home with your pay otherwise you would likely regret for not making good use of the opportunity when it presented itself.
There are players who, due to their character and emotional intelligence, will never bet on a cashout, because for them there is no limit on victories and money won. Of course, he can cash out after the jackpot, but then he will still deposit this money and lose. We must remember that at some point we must have a mandatory stop, otherwise failure and disappointment await us. We must remember this when entering gambling; it cannot be neglected like most players. Do you know any players who won and left gambling forever? I think this is a difficult question not only for us.

Now imagine that these people really exist, who won the jackpot and never returned. When they spent their money, I’m just sure that they had a desire to come back again and try to win more, this will most likely torment them throughout their lives.

It is rare to see or hear of any gambler who called it a quit after winning big. They only go on a short term break and are back to continue from where they stopped. This has been the norm but if there are some that stopped entirely, I have no idea about them but what I know is that most of them are just being disciplined and exercising self restraint so as not to be carried away by their wins. The option of cashing out when the option avail itself should be a good opportunity because the final results might not go down well. So taking advantage of the situation matters too to avoid a sad and devastating end results.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1183
January 18, 2024, 07:49:35 AM
It's true that gamblers all have the desire to win and as such are striving to making sure they are always victorious after  gambling and in some cases, I think gamblers need to control that urge and taste of being victorious always because that alone could make them blind and insensitive not to see and know when to call  it a quit. At some point, a gambler should be sensitive to know that when given an option to choose between cashing out or continue to the end. It is expected that as a reasonable human being or gambler you should go with what you have seen than that which you know not because it is unpredictable as you can not tell the end results as it would be so when given the opportunity to Cash out, it is expedient that you  take home with your pay otherwise you would likely regret for not making good use of the opportunity when it presented itself.
There are players who, due to their character and emotional intelligence, will never bet on a cashout, because for them there is no limit on victories and money won. Of course, he can cash out after the jackpot, but then he will still deposit this money and lose. We must remember that at some point we must have a mandatory stop, otherwise failure and disappointment await us. We must remember this when entering gambling; it cannot be neglected like most players. Do you know any players who won and left gambling forever? I think this is a difficult question not only for us.

Now imagine that these people really exist, who won the jackpot and never returned. When they spent their money, I’m just sure that they had a desire to come back again and try to win more, this will most likely torment them throughout their lives.
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