Topic: CasinoBitco.in - Raising Bankroll for Football! [IPO] [BTC-TC] [BITFUNDER] - page 2. (Read 3896 times)

Hey there, I'm in support of your IPO assuming you can pin down the Legalities.  The US gamblers is a major issue.  The feds have successfully gone after and given steep fines to major overseas poker operations.

With the two states that have approved online gambling operations, compliance requires registration in those states and that 100% of the gambling infrastructure be located in those states.  (Gambling internet traffic cannot cross state lines.)  In other words, you need to register with the state, then you need a 99.999% accurate way of figuring out what state a user is in, then you need to route them to a server that is in their state, or deny them access if they're out of state.

I hope that makes sense.  It's technically and legally challenging.  The other option, of flying under the radar as long as you can IS an option, but investors need to know what they're getting into so they're not surprised if the hammer drops after you've been successful for a while.

An IPO will need to clearly lay out these risks to investors, as well as the locations of all of the direct and indirect operations.  (majority shareholders, management, staff, servers, legal, etc.)  That way they can look up their own local laws and figure out if it's ok for them to invest and maybe do their own risk assessment.

Disclaimer, IANAL.  Just a guy who has done work for a vegas casino before.

Cheers.

I think it will be a good idea to add more sports (soccer,  NBA, NHL, etc.)

Great question- We actually seed our server side random number generator utilizing random.org's API; and yes - we'll be provably fair in no time. We've been focusing on that and Suicide Pool and expect both to be finished in the next week or two  

How does your house code generate randomness? No where on your site explains it. I really hope you are not using pseudorandom functions... however, I am not familiar with HTML5 to know if random is based off of some real physical phenomena.

I think visitors would feel more confident in playing in your casino games if you disclose that you are seeds are based off of random number generators that measure some sort of a physical phenomena.

For those other forum members who are not familiar with what I'm talking about: http://www.random.org/randomness/

Thanks in advance!

Aham, thanks

because this is a proposed IPO, not an IPO...

I can't find the ticket nor on btct, nor on BF 

Really good, and logical questions here. For starters, we are accepting US players. We recognize and understand gambling online with Bitcoin in the US is currently a gray area; however, there were laws recently passed which allow residents in select states to actually gamble online, Nevada and Delaware are two that come to my mind, but I believe there are more and I'd presume more states will be passing similar laws in due time.

To protect our exposure, we operate completely offshore. Further, we have retained legal counsel with a firm in the US that has been completely supportive of everything we have in flight. However, if we are served a cease and desist notice, we technically have 2 options: (1) Fight it or (2) Comply and shut off traffic to states which have not passed the law mentioned above. I'd rather not speculate on what option we'd pursue, as our decision would be based heavily on the circumstances at that time.

Okay, I'm a shareholder now.

How does LabCoin intend to cater to my every need and adjust to my every whim?

+1

What is your legal exposure in your home jurisdiction?  Will you cater to US customers?  What is your exposure in the US?  I represent Bitcoin businesses, but I have little experience doing casino/gambling/betting legal work.  I'd love to know more about how you plan to address (have already addressed?) the regulatory environment you're facing, because I don't know a thing about it.

This is all great feedback, we appreciate that the community is as excited about the IPO as we are!

Few things I can share with you regarding our near-term road map (1-2 months), the following games are all in development now and should be released ahead of the NFL season.

1) HTML5 Baccarat: We are piggybacking on top of the framework we've used for Blackjack and extending it for Baccarat. We are predicting this will give us a wider range of players to our site, especially in Asian markets which are becoming heavy adopters of Bitcoin.

2) Provably Fair for Blackjack and Baccarat: This is a no brainier, and something the community expects - it's coming!

3) NFL Suicide (aka Survivor) Pools : While we won't be making a lot of revenue in these pools, we will be increasing the stickiness of our site and introducing many casual gamblers to Bitcoin and our site. Each and every week users will be coming to our site to pick their team for the upcoming week. This will give us ample opportunity to cross-sell them into placing a bet on an upcoming NFL game in our sportsbook or play some Blackjack in our casino.

4) Parlays: Parlays themselves are considered sucker bets, it's hard enough to pick 1 winner, let alone 3+. Having this feature will allow the sportsbook revenue to continue it's upward trend.

All of the above is custom developed which gives us a wider ranger of flexibility and increases our worth as the IP will be an assert for the company.

I'd like to see this on bitfunder and you'd probably get a few btc from me if:

1. You provided a larger percentage of the company to investors ($50k doesn't give many investors much of a chance, and your IPO would be a brawl) (Maybe 40%)
2. You aim for 25% ROI - websites are valued at about 5 months ROI, so this is already 20 times a websites typical valuation - remember this is a fund raising IPO, investors want to see growth potential in stock values as well.

Otherwise - its a stock I'd be interested in.

I am glad you didn't take it as criticism of the business. I am personally interested in investing in your IPO.

Thanks Swede. Larger % could be good for liquidity as well.

Thank you for the helpful feedback (single IPO, higher %, go for 20 btc limit). Thanks Swede for the positive comments

We are using your feedback - keep in mind, no details are set in stone yet. These #'s are simply derived from our history and projections, accounting for new growth for baccarrat, NFL, etc as described. Reasons we believe a PE ratio of 10 / ~500 BTC IPO is a steal, to be part of a venture that has the potential to out-compete the other BTC casino/sports players & way more:

-A development-savvy founder and dev team with 100% dedication to this project (that's worth a LOT in the startup world)
-Huge development pipeline, owned and developed internally.
-84% month-over-month growth in the 'off-season'
-Just from linear growth (not exponential), taking into account some additional revenue from Baccarat, etc, we forecast ~50 btc in earnings/month by the peak of football season.
-Additional funding should enable ~75 btc/month in that same timeframe.
-Our numbers are actually spiking upwards even more quickly the last few days since this analysis, which is positive news.

Compare us to the other non-mining options out there (which are mostly mining pre-orders, see Bitfunder.com >> Cado.AvalonB3 for an example of how those tend to do)....
-A declining asset exchange with roughly 15000 in annual earnings (not considering just losing its largest listing) cap at 1 million BTC (67 P/E ratio)
-An ASIC development company (we know how risky that is) with a couple Avalons and few thousand chips trading at 135,000 BTC
-A long-shot Australian mining exploration venture valuing itself at 41,000 BTC
-A t-shirt retailer with -40% declining sales each of last 2 months (last month 6 BTC) still trading at 750 BTC (11 P/E ratio) cap
(just to name a few)

I know where my btc will be... (Not at all criticizing these organizations in any way, just how they are trading)

We are wondering what potential investors would like to see us work on, and their expectations?

I think this is probably very low with the growth potential. I think the valuation is fairly decent, my suggestion was mostly that they offer a larger share of the company in the IPO. That way risk taking investors would have a bigger incentive to invest and they could raise more funds for expansion.

so 500btc for 10% *twiddles thumbs*. So today you guys are giving yourselves over 500k valuation. Very aggressive. with 30btc in sales last month 3200ish. Not sure what the total history of your sales figures are, but let's multiply that by 12. about 40k a year. Competing in a non bitcoin mining market against some key players like bitbet and you guys are giving yourselves a 500k valuation today?

Realistic valuation today 50k (that's being very generous)

I wouldn't call it a very modest valuation considering you would value a company with a projected profit of 200 BTC at 5000 BTC at IPO. You are also assuming exponential growth and only releasing a total of 10% in the IPO, it seems like a very small amount.

I would suggest you release at least 30% in the IPO and skip the 2-stage release (I know it's popular lately, but lets be honest. It's just a way to artificially inflate stock value and guarantee that investors find the first IPO price attractive).

There is a reason that no serious companies on FIAT exchanges pre-announce what is essentially several different IPO's with staggered prices.

I think your business seems very interesting and I think you can do extremely well, but if you truly want to leverage funds into growth, why not release 30% @ the same valuation and up the minimum bet 20 BTC?

Good questions! Thank you.

We'd issue a total 30,000,000 shares, release 10% to the public in two waves

(Wave 1): 2,000,000 shares valued at ~0.000155 BTC (matches the IPO mark on chart) 

(Wave 2): 1,000,000 shares valued at ~0.00025 BTC

This would raise at least 500 btc in total, which we think is necessary for the 10 btc limit.

It's also a relatively modest valuation compared to other successful bitcoin IPO's, especially for an already profitable venture with no debts.

Thoughts welcome!

We fill this would add enough liquidity to the market to be fair to shareholders & fairly value the company. Our goal is to be providing well over 20% dividend to Wave 1 investors by the middle of NFL season, as can be seen by our forecasts graphs. These projections take into account our steady current growth, but we will also be riding the wave of NFL/NCAAF and the release of our upcoming features