CBDCs really worth it? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Abiky

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 23, 2022, 07:35:10 AM

I don't really see any difference between a digital currency issued by the governments and fiat. There are two big problems with fiat. 1. It's centralized and the governments have full control over people money. 2. It can be printed.
A digital currency issued by a government still have both problems. I am sure they will design the so called digital currency in a way so they can increase the total supply whenever they want.

Not only that but CBDCs enable governments to have a full scope of your daily financial activities. They'll be a great tool for massive surveillance, putting an end to the era of privacy for good. Everything else will be most likely the same way as it is with Fiat right now. The benefits are numerous from eliminating the need to print new bills (paper money) to easily increasing the supply, and more. CBDCs will certainly be a better option than existing stablecoins simply because they'll have the backing of mainstream governments. But CBDCs will never "beat" decentralized cryptocurrencies simply because these are too big to fail. As long as decentralization wins in the long run, nothing else matters. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 25, 2022, 10:52:45 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 25, 2022, 03:33:52 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 24, 2022, 02:02:17 PM

Worth it for who?

For us, probably not so much.

But for any government who want a perfect spyglass and tool to intercept funds? Absolutely.

But the government will do that right at the start. They will be "good boys", bringing this new digital currency to us, providing us with a more convenient, and efficient way of transacting with each other. Many people will be bullish about CBDC technology, and every disinforming troll in the forum would start encouraging us to HODL our savings in CBDC. That will be a laughable mistake.

It's a moment we need to capitalise on. This is when we need to raise awareness to the public about what their choices really are.

There might not be a choice if launched, and I believe it would be the wiser decision to use CBDC and pretend that you're a normie, than refuse to use it and be a target by the government. Plus it might actually be convenient for gas/fuel and coffee. Haha. Cool

But you're right, there must be awareness/understanding, and there must be deception on our part.

Quote

CBDCs hand unprecedented control to Central Banks and Governments. At any time and for any reason, they could reverse, block or even confiscate the money from any fiat transaction. Cash will undoubtedly be phased out, so with the exception of crypto, there won't be any other alternatives. If authorities suddenly decide they don't want people buying a particular product or dealing with a particular company, service or even charitable organisation, the money could be seized. People need to understand the dangers.

But so far, it feels like we can't even convince many of the people here on this forum that this isn't in their best interests. I see so many deluded fools thinking it's going to be like a better version of a stablecoin, endorsed by those in power. When in all likelihood, not only would it be the final nail in the coffin for "The War on Cash", it could also be the opening salvo to start off "The War on Bitcoin".

If you can't convince them, then just convince them to HODL Bitcoin as a hedge, and not only as a financial hedge, a hedge against censorship, against the people who control the monetary system, and as protection for our sovereignty.

For reference on what is a CBDC, https://digichina.stanford.edu/work/lets-start-with-what-chinas-digital-currency-is-not/

_act_

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 25, 2022, 03:33:52 AM

But the government will do that right at the start. They will be "good boys", bringing this new digital currency to us, providing us with a more convenient, and efficient way of transacting with each other. Many people will be bullish about CBDC technology, and every disinforming troll in the forum would start encouraging us to HODL our savings in CBDC. That will be a laughable mistake.

It will be a laughable mistake like you said, CBDCs are not cryptocurrencies, they are pegged with fiat, they are fiat. The government just want to fool people in a way people not to invest in cryptocurrencies like bitcoin which can be used as an hedge against inflation.

Quote from: Myleschetty on April 25, 2022, 03:58:00 PM

To answer this question correctly, let us look at the countries where their government has created their own CBDC which shows there's no huge difference that makes the CBDC worthwhile and the only change I see is the CBDC being easy to use, it limits people carrying fiat currency around while it gives the government more control over people fund and privacy.

In my country, CBDC was created but it has no competition with fiat, people did not use it because it is just fiat just like how we are sending fiat to another person online.

Myleschetty

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To answer this question correctly, let us look at the countries where their government has created their own CBDC which shows there's no huge difference that makes the CBDC worthwhile and the only change I see is the CBDC being easy to use, it limits people carrying fiat currency around while it gives the government more control over people fund and privacy.

Reid

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Quote from: Lucius on April 23, 2022, 12:04:48 PM

We all know that stablecoins are basically pegged with fiat currency in a 1:1 ratio, and we also know that stablecoins are extremely popular when trading cryptocurrencies because their transactions are cheap and fast, and bypass banks. This means that governments want to become competitive with their fiat in the sense of turning it into a CBDC, otherwise they could lose the race with stablecoins and Bitcoin.

Thank you, that's some enlightenment I received there.
I never thought they might be going thru problems like this but it is a fact. Stablecoins may be their best enemy right now before Bitcoin.
I can remember threads discussing about "when banks are going to adopt the blockchain technology". I think this is it. They are trying to adopt it and yet they can see conflict with what they want.
Maybe people are mixed with different emotions of being afraid about the unknown and also the centralization of all. Cash had been the simplest and traceless thing so there is the scary part when compared to CBDC.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 23, 2022, 07:35:10 AM

Quote from: _act_ on April 23, 2022, 07:05:48 AM

Why creating CBDCs, it is not necessary in my opinion.

Yes. There is no need to such currencies.
Governments believe that bitcoin is a threat to the control they have over people's money and think that with introducing such a digital currency can decrease that threat. That's the only reason they think of creating such a currency.
After launching their CBDC, some governments may say that "why do you want bitcoin? Our CBDC is better than that and bitcoin is illegal".
They don't really know how bitcoin works and think they can prevent people from using bitcoin is this way.

This is what I'm thinking too, a lot of people have heard about bitcoin once in their life but they still haven't dared to use or invest in bitcoin because most of them only hear negative news about bitcoin, bitcoin is associated with a scam, bitcoin will disappear or bitcoin is virtual money and has no value. Once the CBDC comes out, the government will find a way to compare their bitcoin with the CBDC and they will praise the CBDC and declare bitcoin an illegal currency. Or another reason maybe they create CBDC to replace stablecoin because they don't want the money printer to fall into the hands of someone else.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on April 25, 2022, 03:33:52 AM

Quote from: DooMAD on April 24, 2022, 02:02:17 PM

Worth it for who?

For us, probably not so much.

But for any government who want a perfect spyglass and tool to intercept funds? Absolutely.

But the government will do that right at the start. They will be "good boys", bringing this new digital currency to us, providing us with a more convenient, and efficient way of transacting with each other. Many people will be bullish about CBDC technology, and every disinforming troll in the forum would start encouraging us to HODL our savings in CBDC. That will be a laughable mistake.

It's a moment we need to capitalise on. This is when we need to raise awareness to the public about what their choices really are.

CBDCs hand unprecedented control to Central Banks and Governments. At any time and for any reason, they could reverse, block or even confiscate the money from any fiat transaction. Cash will undoubtedly be phased out, so with the exception of crypto, there won't be any other alternatives. If authorities suddenly decide they don't want people buying a particular product or dealing with a particular company, service or even charitable organisation, the money could be seized. People need to understand the dangers.

But so far, it feels like we can't even convince many of the people here on this forum that this isn't in their best interests. I see so many deluded fools thinking it's going to be like a better version of a stablecoin, endorsed by those in power. When in all likelihood, not only would it be the final nail in the coffin for "The War on Cash", it could also be the opening salvo to start off "The War on Bitcoin".

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: DooMAD on April 24, 2022, 02:02:17 PM

Worth it for who?

For us, probably not so much.

But for any government who want a perfect spyglass and tool to intercept funds? Absolutely.

But the government will do that right at the start. They will be "good boys", bringing this new digital currency to us, providing us with a more convenient, and efficient way of transacting with each other. Many people will be bullish about CBDC technology, and every disinforming troll in the forum would start encouraging us to HODL our savings in CBDC. That will be a laughable mistake.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on April 24, 2022, 04:09:33 PM

As long as a CBDC is a choice and isn't forced on people in any way, I'm not against it. And by forcing, I also mean something like making it very hard to receive a salary or social payments or something like that without using a CBDC. Not everyone cares about privacy, and a CBDC allegedly can help save up on transaction fees. So people can try it, some might enjoy it. CBDC is an alternative to fiat which is extremely similar to it, basically. As long as that doesn't lead the government to restrict decentralized cryptocurrencies, it's not a threat to the crypto market.

However further restrictions of decentralized cryptocurrencies will be the next thing on the agenda if CBDCs happen to work out, governments tried to destroy this market and failed, so they are executing plan B, which is to create their own coins and try to deceive people and try to make them believe their coins are better, and as you state there is a great deal of people out there that care nothing about their privacy, so it is not difficult to believe they will be successful in the implementation of their plan, and then they will argue that is incorrect for decentralized cryptocurrencies to provide a higher level of privacy than their own coins, which will give them yet another chance to try to destroy or at least hinder this market.

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I think the only difference is the usage of ledger (whether it be blockchain or not) no? I mean the only reason they'd ever push for CBDC was to make it a lot easier for them to identify the transactions done by each user they have. I mean look at China, they went big on studying CBDC imo all because of that reason since it fits to a T with the way they want their citizens to be governed. I don't even think there's gonna be an improvement based on qol, it's still theh same old fiat. Even if you consider the "digital" aspect, it's not like the fiat of now can't be used digitally.

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 23, 2022, 07:35:10 AM

I don't really see any difference between a digital currency issued by the governments and fiat.

I do. Although they are essentially the same shit, there is still cash left in today's fiat monetary system. Although people are paying more and more with digital means (cards, cell phones, smartwatch...), those who want privacy can pay with bills and coins and leave no trace of their activity, unless they ask for an invoice in their name. With CBDCs, however, absolutely all payments made by citizens will be recorded.

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As long as a CBDC is a choice and isn't forced on people in any way, I'm not against it. And by forcing, I also mean something like making it very hard to receive a salary or social payments or something like that without using a CBDC. Not everyone cares about privacy, and a CBDC allegedly can help save up on transaction fees. So people can try it, some might enjoy it. CBDC is an alternative to fiat which is extremely similar to it, basically. As long as that doesn't lead the government to restrict decentralized cryptocurrencies, it's not a threat to the crypto market.

_act_

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Quote from: Doan9269 on April 24, 2022, 01:28:24 PM

It can be printed in what context do you mean by this?

If you are posting often on economic board, you should remember the US Covid-19 money printing that people have been posting on this forum last year many months ago that people said would probably lead to inflation. US has experienced over 7.8% inflation this year.

Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 24, 2022, 02:25:23 PM

By increasing supply, I meant that CBDC will be still like fiat which is created out of the thin air. It won't be like bitcoin which has a fixed total supply.

I am getting you right now, the supply you meant is money printing, that is true, it can lead to inflation but it depends on the the output value of an economy. Assuming if the money printing correspond to an increase in overall output value of an economy, it will not lead to inflation, but if the money printing does not correspond to the overall output, that will lead to inflation.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: _act_ on April 23, 2022, 08:13:19 AM

Even there is nothing like supply about CBDCs, or maybe I am not getting you right

By increasing supply, I meant that CBDC will be still like fiat which is created out of the thin air. It won't be like bitcoin which has a fixed total supply.

Quote from: Doan9269 on April 24, 2022, 01:28:24 PM

It can be printed in what context do you mean by this?

The papers you use as fiat currency are printed out of thin air. Governments always print more papers and reduce the value of existing papers.

DooMAD

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Worth it for who?

For us, probably not so much.

But for any government who want a perfect spyglass and tool to intercept funds? Absolutely.

fiulpro

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I do think that there can be both positive and negative points for CBDC's

Positive:
1. If integrated with trading perse they would be providing a great alternative to usdt with Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies as well making sure that people have enough time and space to encash in their usual local currencies making it not only cost effective but more diverse.
2. The connection of banks and cryptocurrencies can increase.
<< But we all know that the government before anything they are yelling about how bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies are a nuisance and therefore they should be taken out before their fake crypto can come out>>
Therefore the negative can be :
1. They are not cryptocurrencies
2. Super looked after that means zero privacy
3. Too controlled, zero volatility
4. Government might try and push the agenda through causing harm to the laws concerned with Bitcoins and other cryptos

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 23, 2022, 07:35:10 AM

2. It can be printed.

It can be printed in what context do you mean by this?
Is it that fake fiat currency can be printed or that its nothing when compared to the role and uniqueness of digital currency (bitcoin)?

Quote from: _act_ on April 23, 2022, 07:05:48 AM

Countries want to create their own CBDC, some piloted and created theirs already.

Not until the governments realized the need of the people that its not changing the packaging (fiat note - digital fiat CBDC) is what people really want rather than privacy, trust, security and decentralization in their economic and financial lives. this is freedom and the more we are craving for it the more they overlook it and i want to believe that this freedom is already gotten and taken in bitcoin and there's nothing they can do about it.

Quote from: _act_ on April 23, 2022, 07:05:48 AM

it is completely controlled by the central bank and the government, CBDCs are just fiat. Why creating CBDCs, it is not necessary in my opinion.

That same thing we don't want is what our leaders are craving for, a situation to exercise dominion over every humanitarian affairs, a situation where they can apprehend unjustful, a situation where we need to beg them before we can have access to our finances and a good living.

Darker45

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I share the view that there is really no necessity for a CBDC. But if it has to be created, it simply substitutes and unites the various ways of digitalizing fiat. So far, central banks are not issuing digital money. The process of fiat digitalization is upon banks, card providers, payment services, e-commerce platforms, and so on. When CBDCs are to replace fiat's old form, money is in its digital form right from its issuance. Somehow, it simplifies the process.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on April 23, 2022, 07:35:10 AM

I don't really see any difference between a digital currency issued by the governments and fiat. There are two big problems with fiat. 1. It's centralized and the governments have full control over people money. 2. It can be printed.
A digital currency issued by a government still have both problems. I am sure they will design the so called digital currency in a way so they can increase the total supply whenever they want.

They will make design decisions that would not be of the interest of the people, believe me. We have already seen, in Canada, what the banks and the government can do to their own people. With the CBDC, the government can do it more effectively, and more efficiently. CBDC represents the extreme opposite of the Bitcoin ethos.

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Quote from: _act_ on April 24, 2022, 05:03:27 AM

Quote from: Lucius on April 23, 2022, 12:04:48 PM

We all know that stablecoins are basically pegged with fiat currency in a 1:1 ratio, and we also know that stablecoins are extremely popular when trading cryptocurrencies because their transactions are cheap and fast, and bypass banks. This means that governments want to become competitive with their fiat in the sense of turning it into a CBDC, otherwise they could lose the race with stablecoins and Bitcoin.

The government approach is not excellent at all, or maybe of how I see CBDCs, my country created one already and I see no good need for it than to use our fiat, the CBDC created by the government in my country has its own digital wallet but not on multicoin crypto wallet, it was said that it was not even a cryptocurrency, it can not be used on exchanges ornbenstored using keys generated on crypto wallets. Government suppose to create a kind of CBDCs that can compete with USDT and other stable coins on crypto exchanges which is what the governments should do, not CBDCs that are not cryptocurrencies that have no way to compete with stable coins. Assuming the governments have their own stable coin that are cryptocurrencies, people will prefer to use it compared to using USDT and others that are just created by private companies. As USDT dominates stable coins, it can even still be freezed on noncustododial wallet. The government are taking a wrong approach in my opinion as CBDCs are just totally fiat and nothing specially added.

It seems like a pointless venture, to create CBDC's in the first place and secondly if they indeed
want to compete with the likes of USDT its not going to happen unless it can have the same
exposure as USDT.

I already use FIAT in a digital way as in I rarely use Cash, I use my smartphone and card to
pay digitally for goods, I also have a digital FIAT wallet on my smartphone.

Maybe the CBDC's are designed to bring force mote people onto a digital platform?

Topic: CBDCs really worth it? - page 2. (Read 357 times)