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Topic: cbitcoin - Bitcoin implementation in C. Currently in development. - page 3. (Read 20296 times)

legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
You see I don't want that. People will come and make their proprietary software using my free software. I'd be benefiting them with free software when they are not willing to make their software free. If I could have a license which

Just because something is closed source doesn't mean it isn't free.

When you use RMS's definition of freedom it does.

Closed source means your handing over your computer power to the programmer without being able to audit what he does with it.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1099

On a practical level, it is doubtful that the user community would trust a closed source implementation with their money, when so many open source implementations exist.

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
You see I don't want that. People will come and make their proprietary software using my free software. I'd be benefiting them with free software when they are not willing to make their software free. If I could have a license which

Just because something is closed source doesn't mean it isn't free.
free as in free speech, not free beer.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 102
You see I don't want that. People will come and make their proprietary software using my free software. I'd be benefiting them with free software when they are not willing to make their software free. If I could have a license which

Just because something is closed source doesn't mean it isn't free.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 102
The only example of a GPL library I know is the GNU libc library itself.

GNU libc is not GPL.  It's LGPL.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 102
Well grondilu pointed out the linux kernel. That's not exactly "small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it".

The linux kernel is not a library.  I can create closed source software that runs on the linux kernel.

However, a vast number of the libraries that make up linux are LGPL, so that just proves my point.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1004
Alright, thanks. Would be interesting to get an answer.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080

Just so you know, I've just sent an email to RMS about this.  As I said, I think it's an important enough issue to bother him.
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1004
Quote
If cbitcoin is LGPL, an application using cbitcoin may be any license.

You see I don't want that. People will come and make their proprietary software using my free software. I'd be benefiting them with free software when they are not willing to make their software free. If I could have a license which allows for linking with anything providing that the derivative work (using the library) allows for certain freedoms for users including right to copy and distribute without limitation, but would allow for some limitations of the non-GPL compatible licenses, then that would be good I think.

It's all very nasty to think about which is why I'm saying give me a few weeks alongside everything else and I'll come back with a plan for cbitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1099
Well grondilu pointed out the linux kernel. That's not exactly "small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it".

Irrelevant example, comparing apples and oranges.  The Linux kernel is not a library.

Applications do not link directly with the Linux kernel, therefore applications (obviously!) may be any license.

I'm must say I'm quite surprised by this GPL hate.

Where is the hate, in my message?  I am simply stating facts.  Linux kernel developers have been deeply involved in the arcane legal issues of licenses and linking for well over a decade.

And even excluding my kernel work, you will see that many of my projects are GPL license: https://github.com/jgarzik    (basically all the non-python projects are GPL'd)

The Linux kernel example is simply not applicable to the cbitcoin licensing situation, because it is not a library against which people directly link their end user applications.

The facts are:

1) If cbitcoin is LGPL, an application using cbitcoin may be any license.
2) If cbitcoin is GPL, an application using cbitcoin must be GPL.
3) Linux kernel is not a library against which user applications directly link.  The kernel is GPL, but applications using the kernel's system call interface may be any license.

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
I'll come back to this issue at a later date. Once again I said I'm thinking through cbitcoin over the next few weeks. This is one thing I will look at and consider what license is best. So you just have to stay tuned. I do think the GPL has got problems, so yes I will figure this out. The LGPL might not be perfect either, so we will see.

I gave my opinion but as you might have understood, I'm not a professional programmer, not even an experienced or talented one.  So maybe indeed GPL is not a good fit for a library.  The only example of a GPL library I know is the GNU libc library itself.

I suggest that during those few weeks you seek wisdom in the FSF community, on IRC or something.   Hell, maybe you can send an email to RMS himself  (I'm serious, I think this is an important enough topic, and we now know that RMS is aware of bitcoin).
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1004
I'll come back to this issue at a later date. Once again I said I'm thinking through cbitcoin over the next few weeks. This is one thing I will look at and consider what license is best. So you just have to stay tuned. I do think the GPL has got problems, so yes I will figure this out. The LGPL might not be perfect either, so we will see.

Was there this discussion with the AGPL with Armory? I'm not using the AGPL before anyone is scared.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
Well grondilu pointed out the linux kernel. That's not exactly "small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it".

Irrelevant example, comparing apples and oranges.  The Linux kernel is not a library.

Applications do not link directly with the Linux kernel, therefore applications (obviously!) may be any license.

I'm must say I'm quite surprised by this GPL hate.

Fair enough.  If MatthewLM wants to stick with GPL (I really hope he will), then cbitcoin will only be linked with GPL applications, which is totally fine imho.

In long term, I think bitcoin will need at least one GPL implementation, for reasons too long to explain.  It does not matter if not everyone uses it.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1099
Well grondilu pointed out the linux kernel. That's not exactly "small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it".

Irrelevant example, comparing apples and oranges.  The Linux kernel is not a library.

Applications do not link directly with the Linux kernel, therefore applications (obviously!) may be any license.

Not so, with cbitcoin.

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
woohoo!!! licence flame war incomming!
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1004
That means that you cannot link to the library without your software also being open source.


Yes, that's the point.

If you are intending to keep it small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it, then no, I guess it's not your problem.

Well grondilu pointed out the linux kernel. That's not exactly "small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it".
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1099
That is why many library developers chose to go with LGPL. It allows you to link to the open source code and protect your source code.  If we changed or improved upon cbitcoin in any way, those changes would still have to be made public.

+1

Most libraries are LGPL'd or similar.

A GPL'd library requires that all users be GPL'd.

full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 102
The GPL is a serious problem? For some people maybe. For me? No.

It is your problem if you hope this to have any serious adoption. 

If you are intending to keep it small, niche and useless to a vast portion of the community that would use it, then no, I guess it's not your problem.
full member
Activity: 121
Merit: 102
Agree 100%.  And not only limiting for corporations.  Even freeware, public domain, small independent but commercial software will be hindered by this.  LGPL I might understand, but GPL?  That's a serious problem.

The linux kernel is under GPL.  That did not prevent Google from using it with Androïd.

Linking to anything GPL requires your code to also be GPL (or license compatible).  That means that you cannot link to the library without your software also being open source. For me to use cbitcoin I would have to compile it as an EXE and then use it by calling out to the process. 

That is why many library developers chose to go with LGPL. It allows you to link to the open source code and protect your source code.  If we changed or improved upon cbitcoin in any way, those changes would still have to be made public.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
The GPL is a serious problem? For some people maybe. For me? No.

Don't mind the freedom haters.  It's your code, license it how you'd like.
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