CBS - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

matonis

sr. member

Activity: 303

Merit: 251

Quote from: Jaime Frontero on June 08, 2011, 01:05:50 PM

hey look - my first concern is the success of Bitcoin. ideology comes second - at the moment. and the plain facts are that we are going - at some point - to need votes; whether in congress or in a general public election. we need to lay the groundwork for that. we need Bitcoin to be non-threatening to as many people as possible.

It's naive to think that disingenuous, 'bitcoin-is-traceable' media interviews will result in congressional votes. What votes does bitcoin need anyway?

Jaime Frontero

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

i think garzik did a fantastic job.

he deflected those things which needed to be, avoided mining almost completely (even by inference), and did a fine job of walking the line between politics and geekdom.

hey look - my first concern is the success of Bitcoin. ideology comes second - at the moment. and the plain facts are that we are going - at some point - to need votes; whether in congress or in a general public election. we need to lay the groundwork for that. we need Bitcoin to be non-threatening to as many people as possible.

if the ideology you subscribe to sees certain benefits in Bitcoin, that's fine. i see those too. but the benefits Bitcoin offers will not go away, simply because we don't push them on people who don't care and wouldn't understand them even if they did care.

those benefits will always be there, waiting for us.

"it's like PayPal but it's free, payments can't be reversed, and it's a million times faster to get your dough."

on the other hand, you could spend a few hours with everyone you know explaining about cross-border transfers and capital gains arcana. and what you'd get in return would be "Silk Road, Silk Road, Silk Road."

yes... garzik did just fine.

Sandoz

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Quote from: molecular on June 08, 2011, 07:18:15 AM

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 05:22:04 AM

Bitcoin has pretty strong privacy for the average person or business.

True. And the way for police to investigate / monitor by looking at ip traffic is not as simple as Jeff tried to make it look to the journalists. How are they going to detect a payment to - say - silkroad, let alone after the fact? Am I missing something?

Also: when time comes we can move to btcfn (bitcoin over freenet)

You know what? There is a simpler way: create a new wallet, fill it with money, encrypt it, sell and send the whole wallet to someone via email.
Done.

Do it via multiple jurisdictions and the trace is easily lost.

Freakin

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 11:47:54 AM

Quote from: matonis on June 08, 2011, 05:41:39 AM

Also, it is jumping the gun to classify a 'crypto math puzzle' as a financial instrument and to suggest regulatory oversight.

It is naive to think governments will miss the obvious -- that bitcoins are a cross-border currency/commodity of considerable value.

people saying "doing math and writing code isn't illegal, man!" are delusional.

Chemistry and gardening aren't illegal either, and yet thousands of meth labs and grow houses are busted every year. Bitcoin *can* be made illegal and governmentS can stop the flow of fiat currency.

The US already did this with online gambling.

Bitcoin is not invincible... yet.

xf2_org

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 13

Quote from: matonis on June 08, 2011, 05:41:39 AM

Also, it is jumping the gun to classify a 'crypto math puzzle' as a financial instrument and to suggest regulatory oversight.

It is naive to think governments will miss the obvious -- that bitcoins are a cross-border currency/commodity of considerable value.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 05:22:04 AM

Bitcoin has pretty strong privacy for the average person or business.

True. And the way for police to investigate / monitor by looking at ip traffic is not as simple as Jeff tried to make it look to the journalists. How are they going to detect a payment to - say - silkroad, let alone after the fact? Am I missing something?

Also: when time comes we can move to btcfn (bitcoin over freenet)

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: db on June 08, 2011, 03:32:52 AM

That is masterful PR. Making the fear-mongers look silly is brilliant. Any viewer with half a brain will still get a hint of the great potential.

+1, truly well done, jeff.

Couldn't help to notice your suppressed smiles / grin when telling the "half-truths". Takes some balls to do this, also towards the community here, which I hope understands what you're doing. Congrats.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

A good monetary system does not rat out its users to the flavour-of-the-day despots in government, that's what crap money does. We already have crap money.

A "bitcoin" with strong anonymity is a technological improvement not an ideological enhancement. The market will decide.

ironwolf

member

Activity: 76

Merit: 10

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 05:22:04 AM

So, I'll say it again: bitcoin is not the vehicle for your ideological cause. It is an ideology-neutral currency.

"Ideology-neutral" just means that Bitcoin's existence can support any number of ideologies that are at odds with the incumbent ideologies. That in itself makes it a threat to the incumbents. Therefore like all disruptive technologies, if Bitcoin succeeds it will do so in spite of the incumbents' best efforts to stop it, and not as a result of placating or cooperating with them, although some people will work that angle, and doing so may have some desirable short-term PR effect.

If Bitcoin doesn't ultimately succeed on its own merits, then in the end we're no worse off that if it hadn't existed... which is to say, we're still fucked.

See, I'm not shy about showing my ideology, and yes, Bitcoin is one of its vehicles.

matonis

sr. member

Activity: 303

Merit: 251

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 05:22:04 AM

mtgox and other exchanges are actively working to be legal in as many countries as possible. That is a huge step forward for bitcoin.

I agree that legal exchanges within a given jurisdiction are a positive, especially since there are still technical issues with implementing a viable decentralized p2p exchange structure. However, money service businesses and Know-Your-Customer rules vary among jurisdictions globally and in many cases they are less restrictive than the MSB regulations in the US. Also, it is jumping the gun to classify a 'crypto math puzzle' as a financial instrument and to suggest regulatory oversight. IMHO, the permitted US-based bitcoin exchanges will eventually become a single point-of-failure. Exchangers in other jurisdictions will mitigate that regardless of KYC rules.

Quote from: xf2_org on June 08, 2011, 05:22:04 AM

So, I'll say it again: bitcoin is not the vehicle for your ideological cause. It is an ideology-neutral currency. Either you like the current technological implementation, or you don't.

I fail to see how maintaining the same features as a $100 bill is an ideological cause. Are you now opposed to people using $100 bills? I have no problems with the technological implementation because it can provide those features when structured correctly and safely.

xf2_org

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 13

Quote from: matonis on June 08, 2011, 03:52:43 AM

Therefore, stressing bitcoin's traceability and that bitcoin is not anonymous becomes the worst of both worlds -- cashless and traceable! No one is fooling the authorities by saying bitcoin is fully traceable and some people know safe bitcoin practices. Press interviews like this one retard the 'separation of money and State' cause and reinforce the harmful notion that money can and should be used for identity tracking. Those are bitcoin's positive key differentiators.

Bitcoin has pretty strong privacy for the average person or business.

But with enough sampling nodes and the ability to observe Internet traffic, you can figure out who is sending what bitcoins. So that sort of thing is within the reach of governments. Even your average cracker running a sniffer can see that bitcoin-like bursts of traffic are being generated on the local network.

I would tell an individual or business owner that bitcoins are private and extremely secure. I would not tell a dissident in an oppressive regime to use bitcoins without many, many additional layers of protection.

Quote

I ran out of time before I could even write what a bad idea MSB regulation is for bitcoin....but last week I posted my other PR thoughts (Jews as money launderers, etc., etc.) here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8940.msg164099#msg164099

mtgox and other exchanges are actively working to be legal in as many countries as possible. That is a huge step forward for bitcoin.

You're not going to see business uptake if the bitcoin legal status is murky at best. Most businesses that might want to accept bitcoins today already pay taxes and comply with various national, regional and local laws.

So, I'll say it again: bitcoin is not the vehicle for your ideological cause. It is an ideology-neutral currency. Either you like the current technological implementation, or you don't.

db

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 261

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on June 08, 2011, 04:32:47 AM

I support Jon Matonis wholeheartedly.

Society needs to have this debate about financial privacy before they sign their childrens future away to 100% govt. surveillance of your every move.

Have the debate Jeff. What are you afraid of?

Two years ago I would have agreed, but now we don't need the debate. What we need is for Bitcoin to succeed and we have a technological solution to this social problem.

matonis

sr. member

Activity: 303

Merit: 251

Quote from: DATA COMMANDER on June 07, 2011, 05:43:31 PM

Quote

Garzik stopped by to talk about how his currency is being used on Silk Road, the online black market for any drug imaginable, and how he is working with the government to turn Bitcoin into a universal online currency.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html#ixzz1OdInIgxX

Quote

Garzik says that they have cooperated with authorities in conjunction with Silk Road and are currently working to distance themselves from the illegal site. Similarly the site is working to make their service entirely legal and in conjunction with government standards.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html#ixzz1OdInIgxX

WTF, Jeff?

+1 DATA COMMANDER

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

I support Jon Matonis wholeheartedly.

Society needs to have this debate about financial privacy before they sign their childrens future away to 100% govt. surveillance of your every move.

Have the debate Jeff. What are you afraid of?

enki

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

Quote from: db on June 08, 2011, 03:32:52 AM

That is masterful PR. Making the fear-mongers look silly is brilliant. Any viewer with half a brain will still get a hint of the great potential.

Agreed. It's exactly the right message.

Thanks Jgarzik!

gigitrix

hero member

Activity: 630

Merit: 500

Quote from: matonis on June 08, 2011, 03:52:43 AM

Quote from: db on June 08, 2011, 03:32:52 AM

That is masterful PR. Making the fear-mongers look silly is brilliant. Any viewer with half a brain will still get a hint of the great potential.

Not masterful at all. It wasn't just PR spin. Garzik actually believes what he says. Although he was well-spoken, this is fundamentally the wrong position to be taking with the media. Here's why.

Cash is slowly going away and social utopians everywhere are talking about the nirvana of a global cashless society. Well, that all sounds great until people wake up one day and realize that what they have sacrificed in the transition to a cashless utopia is any thread of financial privacy that remained with paper cash. The phrase 'resist digital money unless anonymous' really means don't give up paper cash if the future is even more traceable and intrusive.

Therefore, stressing bitcoin's traceability and that bitcoin is not anonymous becomes the worst of both worlds -- cashless and traceable! No one is fooling the authorities by saying bitcoin is fully traceable and some people know safe bitcoin practices. Press interviews like this one retard the 'separation of money and State' cause and reinforce the harmful notion that money can and should be used for identity tracking. Those are bitcoin's positive key differentiators.

I ran out of time before I could even write what a bad idea MSB regulation is for bitcoin....but last week I posted my other PR thoughts (Jews as money launderers, etc., etc.) here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8940.msg164099#msg164099

You might think that, but people don't bloody care! They will "buy into" bitcoin by hearing of 1) finite supply 2) "instant" transactions 3) tiny fees. The rest is just gravy.

matonis

sr. member

Activity: 303

Merit: 251

Quote from: db on June 08, 2011, 03:32:52 AM

That is masterful PR. Making the fear-mongers look silly is brilliant. Any viewer with half a brain will still get a hint of the great potential.

Not masterful at all. It wasn't just PR spin. Garzik actually believes what he says. Although he was well-spoken, this is fundamentally the wrong position to be taking with the media. Here's why.

Cash is slowly going away and social utopians everywhere are talking about the nirvana of a global cashless society. Well, that all sounds great until people wake up one day and realize that what they have sacrificed in the transition to a cashless utopia is any thread of financial privacy that remained with paper cash. The phrase 'resist digital money unless anonymous' really means don't give up paper cash if the future is even more traceable and intrusive.

Therefore, stressing bitcoin's traceability and that bitcoin is not anonymous becomes the worst of both worlds -- cashless and traceable! No one is fooling the authorities by saying bitcoin is fully traceable and some people know safe bitcoin practices. Press interviews like this one retard the 'separation of money and State' cause and reinforce the harmful notion that money can and should be used for identity tracking. Those are bitcoin's positive key differentiators.

I ran out of time before I could even write what a bad idea MSB regulation is for bitcoin....but last week I posted my other PR thoughts (Jews as money launderers, etc., etc.) here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8940.msg164099#msg164099

db

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 261

That is masterful PR. Making the fear-mongers look silly is brilliant. Any viewer with half a brain will still get a hint of the great potential.

nazgulnarsil

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 258

https://cryptassist.io

a regulated exchange that allows the full range of investment options will get the finance world interested. then hold on to your pants for the price rise.

matonis

sr. member

Activity: 303

Merit: 251

Bitcoin Money has it here:

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/6305669012/cbs-whatstrending-bitcoin

and CBS video here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504943_162-20069780-10391715.html

Topic: CBS - page 2. (Read 9032 times)