censorship in Brazil: Twitter ban and free Starlink service as bank accounts fro

Silberman

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Quote from: el kaka22 on September 12, 2024, 12:42:51 PM

I feel like when you want to manage a dictatorship, communication is the number one thing that you need to control. This is why back in the day there were so many journalists kept getting jailed in dictatorships since that was the only way the whole country could read the same thing at the same time.

Right now of course social media became even bigger, while Journalism still exists, the right to news is not their issue anymore and anyone can break out any news they want as soon as they get it. Meaning that if you want dictatorship, twitter could be trouble for you since anyone can share the wrongdoings that you do. This is why Brazil did this and that famous judge doesn't care what we think of him at all, he doesn't care and will not care.

We should realize that Brazil is going beyond recovery mode, and if they don2t do something about it then we are going to see them have a lot of trouble soon enough, something that would not be irreversible for a long time.

Censorship was already hard back in the day, but now despite the tools at their disposal this is even more difficult to do these days, because almost every citizen carries with them a phone with capabilities to record video at an amazing resolution, so no matter how secretive a government may believe their activities are, there is always someone out there ready to film them at a moment’s notice, however it seems many governments are already dropping the pretense of being democratic and they are going full authoritarian on the citizens they govern.

el kaka22

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I feel like when you want to manage a dictatorship, communication is the number one thing that you need to control. This is why back in the day there were so many journalists kept getting jailed in dictatorships since that was the only way the whole country could read the same thing at the same time.

Right now of course social media became even bigger, while Journalism still exists, the right to news is not their issue anymore and anyone can break out any news they want as soon as they get it. Meaning that if you want dictatorship, twitter could be trouble for you since anyone can share the wrongdoings that you do. This is why Brazil did this and that famous judge doesn't care what we think of him at all, he doesn't care and will not care.

We should realize that Brazil is going beyond recovery mode, and if they don2t do something about it then we are going to see them have a lot of trouble soon enough, something that would not be irreversible for a long time.

bananahunter67

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This is creepy. Censorship and dictatorship in its pure form.

Whoever censures freedom of speech is afraid of the truth.

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Quote from: Lucius on September 11, 2024, 05:37:08 AM

Unfortunately, I personally can't read the article because it requires a subscription - but I found another news source explaining that VPN users risk an $8900 fine if they access X despite the ban. I honestly thought that the authorities would not go that far, because now it looks like Brazil is behind some kind of state firewall like the one that exists in China and Russia.

Personally, X does not work through Tor for me, but I also see that there is an onion version - which still gives a warning. It would be much safer (and cheaper) if people could access the service with Tor as well

Code:

Tor Browser detected an issue and did not continue to twitter3e4tixl4xyajtrzo62zg5vztmjuricljdp2c5kshju4avyoid.onion. The website is either misconfigured or your computer clock is set to the wrong time.

I can just open businessinsider here without subscription. Using Firefox qith high privacy settinga and ublock (I think it bypass most paywalls)

If you see a pay wall, usually opening reader mode opens it normally lol

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Quote from: bitmover on September 08, 2024, 02:00:47 PM

~snip~
Brazilian use of vpn skyrocketed about 500%
https://www.businessinsider.com/vpn-demand-surges-brazil-x-banned-legal-threats-fines-2024-9

Unfortunately, I personally can't read the article because it requires a subscription - but I found another news source explaining that VPN users risk an $8900 fine if they access X despite the ban. I honestly thought that the authorities would not go that far, because now it looks like Brazil is behind some kind of state firewall like the one that exists in China and Russia.

Personally, X does not work through Tor for me, but I also see that there is an onion version - which still gives a warning. It would be much safer (and cheaper) if people could access the service with Tor as well

Code:

Tor Browser detected an issue and did not continue to twitter3e4tixl4xyajtrzo62zg5vztmjuricljdp2c5kshju4avyoid.onion. The website is either misconfigured or your computer clock is set to the wrong time.

Darker45

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Quote from: bitmover on September 10, 2024, 04:24:41 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on September 09, 2024, 07:26:42 PM

Or you agree with it? We're basically saying the same thing. I detest governments for many reasons, but society would be far more chaotic if private companies are so powerful and influential they could sway governments whichever direction they wish. Again, at first I thought this is just a case of a government trying to make a private entity bend a knee, but then I realized it must be the lesser evil. If it's the other way around, that private companies are making governments bow down to them, the order of things would be upended.

I still don't think this is the lesser evil.

Big corporations are a big slice of the society. If a corporation is big, ia because the society pays for their service and like it (at least in this specific case)

Governments should always remember that their power comes from the society, not the other way around.

Elon musk is not asking the government to bow down, he is just saying that the government doesn't have the power to do whatever they want, and that's true and a fundamental part of the democracy. In democracies the society must counter balance estate power (this usually done by the Parlament, which theoretically represents the people)

X is much less powerful than the estate, this is way it is banned now

I'm responding as if the discussion is on the abstract level. Between a government ordering a private company to do this and that and a private company telling a government to stop ordering them what to do because they're doing what's right, I believe the former is the lesser evil. I'm calling it evil with the assumption that it is an absolute rule which is susceptible to abuses, could be used to silence critics, and so on. Ideally, it should be a smooth cooperation between the two, both making compromises if necessary.

Apparently, yeah, X is less powerful than Brazil's government at least in its jurisdiction. It should be that way. I'm interested, however, to know whether the people on the ground are really barred from using X or there remains options that could circumvent the ban.

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Quote from: Darker45 on September 09, 2024, 07:26:42 PM

Or you agree with it? We're basically saying the same thing. I detest governments for many reasons, but society would be far more chaotic if private companies are so powerful and influential they could sway governments whichever direction they wish. Again, at first I thought this is just a case of a government trying to make a private entity bend a knee, but then I realized it must be the lesser evil. If it's the other way around, that private companies are making governments bow down to them, the order of things would be upended.

I still don't think this is the lesser evil.

Big corporations are a big slice of the society. If a corporation is big, ia because the society pays for their service and like it (at least in this specific case)

Governments should always remember that their power comes from the society, not the other way around.

Elon musk is not asking the government to bow down, he is just saying that the government doesn't have the power to do whatever they want, and that's true and a fundamental part of the democracy. In democracies the society must counter balance estate power (this usually done by the Parlament, which theoretically represents the people)

X is much less powerful than the estate, this is way it is banned now

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I do agree that censorship is something that is very bad, but at the same time Brazil is going through some historical issues. While you may not call it a civil war yet, the last two elections has been quite doubtful as well.

Latest was literally 50.90 vs 49.10 difference, that's 1.8 difference in elections, if something like that happened in the USA, I am sure that we would see people with guns on the streets for sure, hell it didn't even had to be that close, it was a huge difference, and yet they still stormed the capitol building. In the end, I feel like they are trying to do something, right or wrong, to calm down the people and it had the opposite impact that they assumed it would.

The idea was to shut down Twitter so people wouldn't talk politics already and stopped getting too different from each other. While some may think that what's going on is hated right now, it is not, half of the nation hates it, the other half supports it, obvious from the election results as you can see.

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Quote from: bitmover on September 09, 2024, 05:59:44 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on September 08, 2024, 09:23:50 PM

However, I guess the contrary is more evil, that rich and powerful private companies are forcing governments and their laws to bow down to their own wishes. The world might be far more chaotic that way.

I disagree with this.

Elon musk cannot enter into my house , search my stuff and send me to jail. The government can.

Estate are more powerful than corporations. They even have more money

Or you agree with it? We're basically saying the same thing. I detest governments for many reasons, but society would be far more chaotic if private companies are so powerful and influential they could sway governments whichever direction they wish. Again, at first I thought this is just a case of a government trying to make a private entity bend a knee, but then I realized it must be the lesser evil. If it's the other way around, that private companies are making governments bow down to them, the order of things would be upended.

bitmover

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Quote from: Darker45 on September 08, 2024, 09:23:50 PM

However, I guess the contrary is more evil, that rich and powerful private companies are forcing governments and their laws to bow down to their own wishes. The world might be far more chaotic that way.

I disagree with this.

Elon musk cannot enter into my house , search my stuff and send me to jail. The government can.

Estate are more powerful than corporations. They even have more money

Many people say Putin is the richest man alive

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Quote from: pooya87 on September 01, 2024, 01:56:00 AM

Quote from: bitmover on August 31, 2024, 04:14:41 AM

Strange as it may sound, brazil now joins a group of selected dictatorships where X is banned: China, Rússia, Venezuela, north Korea..

That is a twisted fact though. Any country bans any social media platform that doesn't obey their laws. US banned TikTok exactly because of that. There is no difference between that ban and Brazil banning X.

Besides, the reason is very clear. When Brazilian authorities demand X to censor a content, Musk refuses. However when other authorities like US authorities, UK, French, German, etc. authorities demand censorship, Musk obeys. So X is banned in Brazil while it is not banned in US, UK, France, Germany, etc.

Look at how Twitter complied with censorship in all these countries over the years like during the anti-vax protests in Canada, the anti-police brutality in France after the French police murdered a child in broad daylight, and so on.
If Musk were truly pro-free-speech he would have never shut down all those other accounts...

Your opinion somehow swayed mine. I started with a thought that certain local powers simply want international players to bow down to them and their demands. That doesn't seem nice. However, I guess the contrary is more evil, that rich and powerful private companies are forcing governments and their laws to bow down to their own wishes. The world might be far more chaotic that way.

Anyway, it is actually much worse if these elite companies make their own entitled discernment as to which powers to follow and which not to follow, a tendency that many influential global companies have shown. It brings to mind the case of Binance, for example, that is all too willing to comply with regulations of certain powerful countries, bend a knee, and lick their asses while also ignoring the ones set by less powerful states at same time.

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Quote from: iv4n on September 08, 2024, 11:09:51 AM

Quote

Alexandre de Moraes is an evil dictator cosplaying as a judge.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1829308905177956551?lang=en

Elon has been writing a lot about Brazil lately, mostly about how the politicians in power and this clown judge are breaking their laws. And he shares very interesting memes by the way.

The fight for freedom of speech is increasing all over the world, which is good I think... states and politicians really should (and must) be much more transparent. It will be interesting to see what happens in the end, I'm rooting for X and Elon to win this war. It will be a great victory for all of us, especially for people who live in Brazil and want to have the freedom to say what they think without fear of being punished for it.

I believe this is one of the benefits of the rise of social media platforms. Not only popular personalities can voice out their opinions but even regular individuals as they can just post basically anything they want to say to the public. However, people should also be aware of what they are disclosing to the public as their privacy is at stake. Still, it is better to minimize what you share to the public as you don't know who are lurking your life that it can danger your privacy.

Quote from: DeathAngel on September 05, 2024, 05:50:34 AM

We’re going to see governments trying their upmost hardest to eradicate free speech & censor people. Elon Musk buying X is a real positive for free speech, we can not allow those in power to rule by communism. I haven’t always been the biggest Elon fan but he is the hero we need right now.

As we can see, he is now like the voice of the oppressed people. He doesn't care who he is in battle with as long as he is saying what he feels the right things to say to the masses. Though everyone has their own opinions but I believe, he has big role in displaying what is free speech these days.

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Quote from: NotATether on September 05, 2024, 03:23:10 AM

Quote from: Woodie on August 31, 2024, 12:01:52 PM

Isn't Brazil part of BRICS??

I think it's obvious that the BRICS way is to remove any player close to the West and Elon Musk happens to be that player in the social space and technological space..so no suprises here Roll Eyes

And replace them with what? WeChat? Grin

Sadly brazil is in brics , a bunch of dictatorships and some democracies. But we are still a democracy.

X censorship was a big surprise for all Brazilians. I think it can still be reverted , as other supreme court ministers will vote for it to stay banned or not.

But for now it is banned ... sadly

Brazilian use of vpn skyrocketed about 500%
https://www.businessinsider.com/vpn-demand-surges-brazil-x-banned-legal-threats-fines-2024-9

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on August 31, 2024, 09:57:09 AM

I just saw this update on Twitter. I had no idea this happened. It's funny because whenever governments do this, you just know they want to keep some people quiet. Twitter is not an illegal app, it's just an app where people discuss and debate ideas while getting political, entertainment and sports updates, so I see no reason why a fair government should ban it.
I remember when the government of Nigeria banned Twitter a couple of years ago. It was to crush the people who stood up against the government, and Twitter was a great place for them to discuss and make plans since you cannot go to the radio stations or TV channels to make announcements.

Also, on what grounds did they seize Starlink's account? Do they have a right to just do that when the company didn't break any laws?
These are the kind of scenarios that discourage foreign investors.

Is this a way of silencing the people of Brazil from what to say and do? It's always the government and it's either you do it their way or you go down, they don't mind going extra miles to take down an individual left alone a country or state.
Besides this platform is created for various purposes and entertainment and people use it to fit business purposes online it's really beneficial to the nation so why will they take it down.
Of a Truth some countries ain't using X anymore due to some reasons by the government and it's affected them a whole lot, what's Elon musk saying and doing I think this issue of silencing people's freedom should be apprehended speedily.

iv4n

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Quote

Alexandre de Moraes is an evil dictator cosplaying as a judge.

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1829308905177956551?lang=en

Elon has been writing a lot about Brazil lately, mostly about how the politicians in power and this clown judge are breaking their laws. And he shares very interesting memes by the way.

The fight for freedom of speech is increasing all over the world, which is good I think... states and politicians really should (and must) be much more transparent. It will be interesting to see what happens in the end, I'm rooting for X and Elon to win this war. It will be a great victory for all of us, especially for people who live in Brazil and want to have the freedom to say what they think without fear of being punished for it.

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It just hit me... what if you want to order a Starlink terminal? They can't receive payments for that either, so is that even possible still? It looks like only internet connectivity for the units already in Brazil is going to stay freely available.

Quote from: Woodie on September 05, 2024, 06:09:56 AM

But it wouldn't be a bad idea to have it if at the Chinese version features can be extended to Brazil.. though Russia might not like such a development as it might look like China is in the driving seat.

WeChat is so difficult to sign up for, and last time I checked you need to get your account verified by *another* WeChat user in order to even get started, so that's a non-starter for me.

Everything is in Chinese anyway, so I don't imagine it catching any sort of traction in a country like Brazil.

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Quote from: DeathAngel on September 05, 2024, 05:50:34 AM

We’re going to see governments trying their upmost hardest to eradicate free speech & censor people. Elon Musk buying X is a real positive for free speech, we can not allow those in power to rule by communism. I haven’t always been the biggest Elon fan but he is the hero we need right now.

Wouldn't agree more , and from how things are unfolding of late, I think Elon Musk is in the right place at the right time...so much oppression going on in some of these countries and unfortunately Musk has to meddle in some of the politics going on just to give people the glimpse of hope and freedom.

Quote from: NotATether on September 05, 2024, 03:23:10 AM

Quote from: Woodie on August 31, 2024, 12:01:52 PM

Isn't Brazil part of BRICS??

I think it's obvious that the BRICS way is to remove any player close to the West and Elon Musk happens to be that player in the social space and technological space..so no suprises here Roll Eyes

And replace them with what? WeChat? Grin

Lol see what you did there...

But it wouldn't be a bad idea to have it if at the Chinese version features can be extended to Brazil.. though Russia might not like such a development as it might look like China is in the driving seat.

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We’re going to see governments trying their upmost hardest to eradicate free speech & censor people. Elon Musk buying X is a real positive for free speech, we can not allow those in power to rule by communism. I haven’t always been the biggest Elon fan but he is the hero we need right now.

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Quote from: Woodie on August 31, 2024, 12:01:52 PM

Isn't Brazil part of BRICS??

I think it's obvious that the BRICS way is to remove any player close to the West and Elon Musk happens to be that player in the social space and technological space..so no suprises here Roll Eyes

And replace them with what? WeChat? Grin

Quote from: Woodie on August 31, 2024, 12:01:52 PM

But one thing these dictatorial moves have is forcing people to ask what are they trying to hide, who are they trying to silence..and sooner or later so rebellion starts and before you know it it's a civil war at hand and in the year 2024 such is unacceptable..let those greedy power hungry guys find better things to do with their lives as they will be seen as Criminals by ICC when the time comes.

This Alexandre de Moraes guy just went and is blocking all of Elon's companies that operate in Brazil, including services that have nothing to do with the platform in question (X).

It does not seem like something a normal judge would do. A normal judge would simply order X to block the content or face being banned by ISPs, but this guy actually took it one step further and is trying to cripple SpaceX too. Maybe Tesla will be next.

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Unfortunately Brazil has now entered the dictatorship regime. When the rulling government doesn't like anyone, they try to block their voice from being heard. That's a sign of flawed democracy and unfortunately Brazil is officially a flawed democracy now.

I really appreciate the stance of Elon Musk to not bown before the government and risked his business in this huge market. Still someone has the spine to stand up for the right things.

Topic: censorship in Brazil: Twitter ban and free Starlink service as bank accounts fro (Read 467 times)