Topic: Central Bank: If The Entire System Collapses, Gold Will Be Needed To Start Over - page 3. (Read 828 times)

Your words are going to fall on deaf years

The reason for this is quite simple, though. To see things in their true light and proper perspective, you have to be an expert in these things, and while it is a prerequisite for drawing correct conclusions and inferences, it is still not a guarantee of their correctness because you may lack some important information (like pieces of a puzzle). Little needs to be said that the majority of people lack both such expertise and such information. But that doesn't prevent them from thinking they always know better, of course


Welcome to the club!

Ah, the doomsayers' arguments. You should take into account:
(1) the probability for a severe economic crisis;
(2) the probability for (1) followed by a severe political (power) crisis;
(3) the probability for (1) & (2) and all the chaos caused, somewhat drive Bitcoin usage.

You should read beerlover arguments up there.

I'm a hard-boiled dude. I don't need any savings.

PS: CryptoTalk bitches, please stop quoting my comment except you really want to address specific things.

It is best to have Bitcoin and gold at the same time. And in my preference, it is best to store those Bitcoin and gold yourself. The problem with third party is that you never know until when they can be trusted, or until when they are still there. Take note that being duly registered or licensed is not a guarantee. I don't trust third parties.

Gold and bitcoin both good option as saving assets if you have much money, many people have ready for saving money with their family education in the future and make mistake with saving money have lower value at the future with inflation, now better save your money with bitcoin or gold assets because give the same value although have holding for long time.

It depends on the time the collapse happens. If the collapse happened at a later time when digital currencies are at its peak and bitcoin would be one of them, bitcoin may also be hoarded by the people. It would be considered valuable as its demand is higher and is a good investment, alongside with gold. However, if crash would happen sooner than we think, people may not still hoard bitcoin, instead gold would be the best option or other rare materials because it's more necessary and valuable for people.

We don't even know whether when the crisis happening or the entire economic system collapses bitcoin will still hold the value or not. Bitcoin is always indirectly affected by such event and the Central bank saying Gold will be needed to start over is because they believe that gold will hold its value since it has always been like that since the ancient times. But, in my opinion when crisis happen that's when food worth more than gold I guess. So gold will be practically useless.

That big event is coming, we do not know when or what will be the exact causes of the next economic crisis, but what we know is that the system is unsustainable and sooner or later it must fall, at that point it will be irrelevant what the government wants or allows, people will be in survival mode and if that means using this weird currency called bitcoin they have been making fun of for years then that is what they will use regardless of the wishes of the government.

Well, bitcoin will be needed to start over as well.

I doubt "entire system collapse" will be a reality, economy is bigger than just numbers, it is also power and the world of rich and powerful people will not let the system collapse because that would mean they are gone as well, if wall street for example collapses then every single stock or company that was part of wall street will be bankrupted as well.

You know why USA printed 800 billion dollars out of thin air in 2008 when their whole deficit was couple trillion dollars? Because if wall street banks collapsed right there, then there would be THOUSANDS of companies going bankrupt in a single day with MILLIONS of jobless people out in the streets having nowhere to go or having any money to spend. USA would turn into Venezuela very quickly.

Gold is old fashioned way in starting over. We already have cryptocurrencies and I think with their technology called blockchain, it is enough for us to start over with a more advanced type of technology and with the power of decentralization. People love to be independent and to be more advanced so cryptocurrencies are much better compare to gold.

Their first mistake was to distribute their Gold geographically. Their second mistake will be when their request to have the Gold withdrawn be denied.

I'm pretty certain that we're already at a point where countries are afraid to request their Gold to be withdrawn, because that indicates distrust and you don't know how the other side is going to react to that. In that regard, they rather continue with the promise of owning x amount of Gold, where they can sell that promise to another sucker entity in the worst case.

I'm sure there are a lot of economical factors that play a role of importance too, because you can somewhat force other countries to not walk over you because you own a certain percentage of their Gold reserves. The more Gold you allow to be withdrawn, the more you put yourself in a disadvantageous position.

Exactly. Gold plays a big role in the economy. Especially on that disaster, the central bank's entire systems collapse. I think gold is the only way that they can be able to recover on their losses because even in a long period of time, The price of gold will never drop down but will continue to increase because it is very rare and so hard to find. Unlike bitcoin it only needs a massive adoption in order to reduce the supply, fewer supply means makes it expensive in bitcoin price.

What do you suggest, communism takes from the rich and gives to the poor, socialism will not work all the time.

There is a stagnation in the market and how to revive that depends upon individual government, many government hold gold as reserves and in times of crises they will be using that, will it revive the market is to be seen.

In the original post I read, "the IMF bashed Germany's adoption of the gold standard in the 1870s," yet we forget how quickly the German economy turned upside down around the 1920s. It may have been 50 years later, but things moved much more slowly within the area of economics. Globally, we had transitioned into the manufacturing era in the early 19th century and would be in that era for another 70 years. They needed a lot of help getting out of their recession, but it just goes to show the IMF is not always right or has the right view on a certain topic.

Let's fast forward to the current day. In recent months, the IMF has opened up to the concept of cryptocurrencies. There were some meetings or summits regarding monetary remittance in commercial banks with a creation of their own cryptocurrency. Each individual banking system is unique based on domestic regulations and given economic conditions, so it may not be legal in some countries, but it does introduce the concept of a completely virtual system. Of course, no system is too good or too big to fail, but looking at Germany adopting the gold standard and then letting it go is definitely one of the earlier examples. Main point is that we will need some sort of reserve bailout in this global economy if it were to collapse. Some central banks have had to bail out struggling countries like the ECB with respect to Greece's situation.

Many banking systems had gold as their choice, but there are other options especially within the world of cryptocurrency. Some coins or tokens are backed by stock within a company so they're like a utility instead of traditional gold-backed fiat currencies. I recently attended an AMA session hosted by some blockchain startups and they seemed to be attached to an alternate standard of backing their tokens as a utility. These tokens can be used on their platform and It is a rather new concept, but still similar to this gold standard requirement like most believe that we need. If each unit of currency was backed by a gold standard, there would be a much larger vault space needed for the actual gold whether it be for fiat or crypto compared to the days when Germany and the US had their respective gold standards.

Well that's my two (or three) cents, but let's just keep in mind that there is no perfect or completely fail-proof system especially with a shift toward cryptocurrencies. Maybe the IMF also missed the mark on cryptocurrencies and it doesn't have the right amount of centralization needed to move forward successfully. Only time will tell...

Yep, go ahead and store your Bitcoin in your own wallet. That's the best way to store Bitcoin IMO.
The same thing can be done with gold. You can store physical gold by yourself or assign 3rd party to store it for you in a vault.

About Bitcoin as a currency, the problem is that the government would not allow Bitcoin to be used as a legal currency. Except something "big" happens, fiat would not disappear anytime soon. Also, improvements (technical) need to be made before Bitcoin can on-board the majority of people on earth.

I'm not sure if gold is necessary. Bitcoin essentially performs the exact same function as gold as a store of value, except it exists on a trustless ledger, and is much more convenient for international remittance as opposed to gold.

We've already seen vaults in certain countries that hold custody over certain country's gold refusing to release them, and using them as leverage. I think that central banks should also be aware of centralisation of such reserves.

But yes, some sort of decentralised money will be needed as a money base, at the very least.

I would proceed with "caution". reports of 400 oz. “good delivery” bricks of gold found gutted and filled with tungsten within the confines of LBMA approved vaults in Hong Kong went back to time where Satoshi was still active on this forum.  Keep in mind those 400 oz bar were mostly traded on professional markets and turn over are alot lower, yet fakes do exist. Also tampering of serial no. on those bars does happen, consider the following:

DA investigating NYMEX executive - Manhattan, New York, district attorney's office, Stuart Smith - Melting Pot - Brief Article – Feb. 2, 2004

A top executive at the New York Mercantile Exchange is being investigated by the Manhattan district attorney. Sources close to the exchange said that Stuart Smith, senior vice president of operations at the exchange, was served with a search warrant by the district attorney's office last week. Details of the investigation have not been disclosed, but a NYMEX spokeswoman said it was unrelated to any of the exchange's markets. She declined to comment further other than to say that charges had not been brought. A spokeswoman for the Manhattan district attorney's office also declined comment.

"The offices of the Senior Vice President of Operations - NYMEX – is exactly where you would go to find the records [serial number and smelter of origin] for EVERY GOLD BAR ever PHYSICALLY settled on the exchange. They are required to keep these records. These precise records would show the lineage of all the physical gold settled on the exchange and hence "prove" that the amount of gold in question could not have possibly come from the U.S. mining operations – because the amounts in question coming from U.S. smelters would undoubtedly be vastly bigger than domestic mine production."

just be warned.  The truth is out there.

There is not alot of Tungsten gold stored in any volume because any big buyer of gold will reforge the gold they purchase and the asset is confirmed in quality at that time.   Its worth their time to do so, in particular instances there is fraud but it obviously damages the reputation of those involved and is not common place.  


Real gold bugs have been holding gold their whole lives and probably too great an extent which is why the vast majority dismiss gold as a form of money.   Its easily the case that many things return value better then gold ever will for most, just buying your own house is easily justifiable over gold for most as it helps reduce rent costs.  Where as gold stored does have a cost to it in storage its not zero but at least some form of security and holding is required.   Every person who works a career and hopes to retire should be saving a gold coin per year at least, so far as I know most people dont though China and India and other parts of asia do have more respect then the west I think.

   Gold is justified where the majority of money used is no longer employed profitable, like a scales tipping we will have bias switch back to gold as solid money and it will serve a purpose to society in its constant quality over time.   I think any big reset does involve gold as OP argues as it is a good touchstone for value over time between generations and a common point of reference between varied nations across the world, it has that use to the world that will be called upon in future more then now.   A rising usage is going to match a price rise also, it probably relates to some measure of volatility over years.

Keep in mind now a days you have more paper gold than physical gold, and there are plenty of Tungsten filled gold too!  I think physical delivery process may change significant for those 400oz CME gold bars, in that they would be melted on the spot to make sure it isn't filled with fake Tungsten bar inserts.  This is why you don't want those physical gold to be audited, so when the house of card fails, it would truely be too big to fail indeed!

value of dollar is backed by man with guns.  Man with guns needs to be paid just like anyone else to be loyal.  I wonder the magnitude of the problem shall become if they were paid with worthless fiat, would then dollar still be backed by man with guns? or man with mountain of toilet papers?

gold will always be a currency that is very used from before there was a bank system until the bank collapsed gold can always be relied on so it doesn't hurt if you have and store gold in physical form because someday it will definitely always be used for transactions and has a very sale value high.

Why would that be so difficult? If the USD collapsed, faith in fiat monies would be shattered. There would be an urgent need to circulate currency that people have faith in. I think the most intuitive response would be for governments to return to the pre-fiat system of gold-backed money.

This would probably devolve to fractional backing and free float again, yes, but for as long as government-issued notes are convertible to the underlying, it would function as expected.