Centralized Exchanges are Bad! | Bitcointalksearch.org

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: NorrisK on August 06, 2016, 06:57:06 AM

I agree that decentralized exchanges are needed, but is is being said for a long time now. Appearantly it is not so easy to build one because at one point there is the centralized component of the fiat exchange.

There is no way to have a decentralized way to exchange fiat currency as any method to put fiat for trade requires a trusted third party.

Crypto to crypto should be possible in the near future, but crypto to fiat will not likely be possible in a decentralized way.

Yes but it works with escrow and multisig, so its no problem. The banking system is as it is, there is no way to change that.

Hopefully in the future we wont have FIAT<>BTC transaction, and everyone will use BTC, but until then we have to rely on escrow and multisig wallets.

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I agree that decentralized exchanges are needed, but is is being said for a long time now. Appearantly it is not so easy to build one because at one point there is the centralized component of the fiat exchange.

There is no way to have a decentralized way to exchange fiat currency as any method to put fiat for trade requires a trusted third party.

Crypto to crypto should be possible in the near future, but crypto to fiat will not likely be possible in a decentralized way.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: biggus dickus on August 06, 2016, 06:17:05 AM

The money is stored on your PC when you aren't trading, but after you start trading it would be under the control of whatever code the decentralized exchange runs on. A hacker who found a bug in that code could make a bot to exploit it through thousands of different trades simultaneously. Anyone trading at that time could have their Bitcoins stolen.

No it's multisig wallet with escrow, the coins cant be stolen, and the fiat part of the transaction is also safe because bank transaction can be reversed.

Also scammers are discouraged too because it works with security deposits, that they lose if they scam, and the arbitrators have security deposits too, and they are trusted people.

So the risk of theft/scam is low.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Doesn't matter, both centralized and decentralized exchanges can be hacked or the owner can run with customer money even though each exchange has different way to protect the money such as insurance or don't keep users money.
OR you just don't exchange your bitcoin for another currency, that's better way Roll Eyes

Are you blind, didnt you read what I wrote earlier. Decentralized exchange cant be hacked because there is no central wallet.

Everyone store the coins on its own, so a hacker can only target people 1 by 1, which is not profitable for him. So its much safer than central wallets.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: gentlemand on August 06, 2016, 06:17:32 AM

Because greed and convenience outweigh the desire to be sensible. If Bitfinex opens its doors again I'm relatively sure even the people they buttfucked will still use it. That's how mindless most people are.

Stupid people never learn, that is the curse of humanity.

It took 5000 years to abolish slavery, invent medicine, computers, and the wonderful technology.

It could have been done in 50 years, but it took the other 4950 years convincing the idiots to join us.

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still trying to get my head around Bitsquare, its not bad just i am a bit slow sum times.....lol Grin

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Because greed and convenience outweigh the desire to be sensible. If Bitfinex opens its doors again I'm relatively sure even the people they buttfucked will still use it. That's how mindless most people are.

biggus dickus

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on August 06, 2016, 06:08:21 AM

Quote from: biggus dickus on August 06, 2016, 06:05:57 AM

Quote from: MingLee on August 06, 2016, 03:00:31 AM

A decentralized exchange is a good idea. The methods we currently have implemented are not. There have to be ways to independently verify the occurrence of an exchange, similar to how miners verify transactions through mining. If we can get something like that working (but it moves quite quickly), then we might see something of value come out of this idea, but there are still some things that have to be worked out. Not all of it is good enough yet for it to be implemented.

The concept of a decentralized exchange is good, but the first one to get high volume will become the target of the same hackers that go after centralized exchanges. Any bugs in the code will be exploited, and there will probably be bugs at first. I suspect the first decentralized exchange to get high volume will get hacked, just like the decentralized exchanges do. Making it decentralized doesn't make it invulnerable to hacks.

I cant be hacked, the money is stored on your PC, and the hacker to go after 1 person is stupid. The risk is distributed, there is no central wallet to steal from.

That is the point, the bugs will only do minor damage in my opinion, and can be quickly corrected.

The money is stored on your PC when you aren't trading, but after you start trading it would be under the control of whatever code the decentralized exchange runs on. A hacker who found a bug in that code could make a bot to exploit it through thousands of different trades simultaneously. Anyone trading at that time could have their Bitcoins stolen.

~Bitcoin~

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on August 06, 2016, 06:00:06 AM

Quote from: calkob on August 06, 2016, 05:45:33 AM

yeah the price might take a hit in the short term, but bitcoin dos not care about hacks and just keeps plodding on....... Grin

Yes but if people keep being irresponsible idiots all the time then its bad for bitcoin.

Damn I just wish bitcoin users were a little bit smarter.

I think actually exchanger should be more careful and smarter because they asked people to trust them with their bitcoin claiming their system is unhackable, unbreakable etc however at last all loss because of security bug in exchange platform. And it will be hard to trade without keeping good sum of bitcoin in exchanger even knowing that this is not safer practice, so i think main fault is how exchanger manages deposited bitcoin and their security system.

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Quote from: biggus dickus on August 06, 2016, 06:05:57 AM

Quote from: MingLee on August 06, 2016, 03:00:31 AM

A decentralized exchange is a good idea. The methods we currently have implemented are not. There have to be ways to independently verify the occurrence of an exchange, similar to how miners verify transactions through mining. If we can get something like that working (but it moves quite quickly), then we might see something of value come out of this idea, but there are still some things that have to be worked out. Not all of it is good enough yet for it to be implemented.

The concept of a decentralized exchange is good, but the first one to get high volume will become the target of the same hackers that go after centralized exchanges. Any bugs in the code will be exploited, and there will probably be bugs at first. I suspect the first decentralized exchange to get high volume will get hacked, just like the decentralized exchanges do. Making it decentralized doesn't make it invulnerable to hacks.

I cant be hacked, the money is stored on your PC, and the hacker to go after 1 person is stupid. The risk is distributed, there is no central wallet to steal from.

That is the point, the bugs will only do minor damage in my opinion, and can be quickly corrected.

biggus dickus

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Quote from: MingLee on August 06, 2016, 03:00:31 AM

A decentralized exchange is a good idea. The methods we currently have implemented are not. There have to be ways to independently verify the occurrence of an exchange, similar to how miners verify transactions through mining. If we can get something like that working (but it moves quite quickly), then we might see something of value come out of this idea, but there are still some things that have to be worked out. Not all of it is good enough yet for it to be implemented.

The concept of a decentralized exchange is good, but the first one to get high volume will become the target of the same hackers that go after centralized exchanges. Any bugs in the code will be exploited, and there will probably be bugs at first. I suspect the first decentralized exchange to get high volume will get hacked, just like the decentralized exchanges do. Making it decentralized doesn't make it invulnerable to hacks.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: calkob on August 06, 2016, 05:45:33 AM

yeah the price might take a hit in the short term, but bitcoin dos not care about hacks and just keeps plodding on....... Grin

Yes but if people keep being irresponsible idiots all the time then its bad for bitcoin.

Damn I just wish bitcoin users were a little bit smarter.

calkob

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yeah the price might take a hit in the short term, but bitcoin dos not care about hacks and just keeps plodding on....... Grin

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I still can’t understand why people don’t store their bitcoins in offline wallets? Don’t they trust themselves? Or they find difficulties in tuning with technology?
I think there is lack of awareness among new comers about the security and how it works. Although I use online wallets and I have my funds in exchange too still I have my offline wallets to store main balance. I don’t think such exchange hacks will have any positive impact on bitcoin users, they will still trust exchanges till they personally meet any trouble.

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Quote from: Yakamoto on August 06, 2016, 03:18:04 AM

Quote from: Senor.Bla on August 06, 2016, 03:12:25 AM

Somehow i get the feeling, that this is not the first time this is discussed.
a decentralized Exchange is not that easy and if you deal with money there is almost every time at some point trust involved. This will be hard to change.
My suggestion would be to start using Bitcoin full time and thus eliminate or minimize the need for Exchanges centralized and decentralized.

Decentralized exchanges have been talked about for a fairly long time, and the first time I remember hearing about it was something like a month or two after the Mt.Gox collapse. I've heard it off and on since then, but I guess now it's really being talked about.

While your suggestion for using Bitcoin full-time is a good idea, there a lot of things that have to be built up and developed first. We need a quicker network system, and we need easier wallets for everyone. While they are already easy, it isn't easy for a lot of people.

But now we have a fully functional one. It was really a question of time until they come out. And it's not just the hacks but all the red tape that exchanges make you go through, and the fact that they can freeze your account without any reason, anytime, is just unbearable.

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on August 06, 2016, 03:12:25 AM

Somehow i get the feeling, that this is not the first time this is discussed.
a decentralized Exchange is not that easy and if you deal with money there is almost every time at some point trust involved. This will be hard to change.
My suggestion would be to start using Bitcoin full time and thus eliminate or minimize the need for Exchanges centralized and decentralized.

It no needs a full time for using bitcoin but you must implement in yourself about every time you doing the trading and after finishing your trading you will always remember to sending all of your amounts into your wallet, without sacrifice a lot of your time.

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Quote from: Senor.Bla on August 06, 2016, 03:12:25 AM

Somehow i get the feeling, that this is not the first time this is discussed.
a decentralized Exchange is not that easy and if you deal with money there is almost every time at some point trust involved. This will be hard to change.
My suggestion would be to start using Bitcoin full time and thus eliminate or minimize the need for Exchanges centralized and decentralized.

Decentralized exchanges have been talked about for a fairly long time, and the first time I remember hearing about it was something like a month or two after the Mt.Gox collapse. I've heard it off and on since then, but I guess now it's really being talked about.

While your suggestion for using Bitcoin full-time is a good idea, there a lot of things that have to be built up and developed first. We need a quicker network system, and we need easier wallets for everyone. While they are already easy, it isn't easy for a lot of people.

Senor.Bla

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Somehow i get the feeling, that this is not the first time this is discussed.
a decentralized Exchange is not that easy and if you deal with money there is almost every time at some point trust involved. This will be hard to change.
My suggestion would be to start using Bitcoin full time and thus eliminate or minimize the need for Exchanges centralized and decentralized.

MingLee

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A decentralized exchange is a good idea. The methods we currently have implemented are not. There have to be ways to independently verify the occurrence of an exchange, similar to how miners verify transactions through mining. If we can get something like that working (but it moves quite quickly), then we might see something of value come out of this idea, but there are still some things that have to be worked out. Not all of it is good enough yet for it to be implemented.

xJuturna

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Folks will always use their money how they choose. There's always a handful that will be ignorant to the fact or tell themselves "Hey, it won't happen again" at their own risk. The fact is people will be people and no matter what they will vest their coins where they'd like. I'd like to think that the number of people will dwindle as more proof that it's not a good idea is presented, but hey, what can you do?

Topic: Centralized Exchanges are Bad! (Read 1204 times)