Centralized exchanges have become the banks of the cryptocurrency world

deisik

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Quote from: pixie85 on February 13, 2020, 07:00:25 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 09, 2020, 06:21:53 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 05:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

Come on, P2P? Have you seen the volume on those sites? Probably not even 1% of crypto users go to these sites

No one knows that volume

This is the whole thing with the P2P markets. We don't and most importantly can't know how much Bitcoin is being bought and sold there. Apart from this, even if only 1% of all crypto users are trading via P2P marketplaces, that doesn't in the least mean it is only 1% of all bitcoins being traded. The entire point of using P2P is to sell huge amounts of coins in a safe way but without drawing too much attention to your operations as it inevitably and inexorably happens when you sell or buy using regular exchanges

matchi2011

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Quote from: Google+ on February 11, 2020, 07:44:26 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 07:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

It's not safe to store your assets to any CEX exchange as chances that it will be hack and rob still possible. Even those known exchange experience
hacking but more people still use CEX than DEX due to it's friendly interface, it's more easy to understand and use the platform and the volume also
is considered.

romero121

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Centralized exchanges gives the outlook same as Bank through the services that's been offered. However without the traditional banks support it isn't possible to use Centralized Exchanges as the banks of the cryptocurrency world. Here the need of banks can be eliminated when the end users are ready to deal only with cryptocurrencies. To have this in reality we need to wait long, because the usage of cryptocurrencies and the acceptance level at present is very low in number compared to the traditional systems followed.

pixie85

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 09, 2020, 06:21:53 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 05:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

Come on, P2P? Have you seen the volume on those sites? Probably not even 1% of crypto users go to these sites.
Saying that trading Bitcoin without ever using a centralized exchange is possible is just like saying that you can ditch your car and walk 10 km to work every day. Sure it's possible but nobody is going to do it in such situation just like nobody is going to run a crypto business without ever selling for fiat.

We are using fiat that's a fact and all the pumps and headlines are there because people are trading and creating volume.

barbara44

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And how do you create a community and make them all to start making use of decentralized exchange? If you can’t do that here by convincing people to start making use of decentralized exchange, how do you think you can go to the extent of creating a whole community that uses just decentralized exchanges? That doesn’t make any sense.

People are using what they think is right for them, so you shouldn’t be complaining. Just keep making use of what you feel is right for you. That you like decentralized exchanges doesn’t mean that others too are going to like it. And yes , centralized exchanges are ruling now, maybe a time will come when decentralized exchanges might become better and a lot of people will switch to it.

Driggers95

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Quote from: Google+ on February 11, 2020, 07:44:26 PM

Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 07:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

No need to talk about the crash, we just need to talk about the case where these centralized exchanges were attacked by hackers then stealing assets from their wallets, this scenario is enough for us to see the risk of storing and turning these exchanges into banks. The crypto world doesn't need an exchange to become a bank, they just need these exchanges to work properly and be accountable, the assets that investors own will be stored in their own wallets at crypto wallet websites trustworthy or hardware wallet

Naida_BR

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In my opinion, centralized exchanges are needed in order to tackle scams and malicious behaviors from members of the community.
Centralized exchanges offer an umbrella of safety to their users from scams. Unfortunately, they are prone to security breaches but big exchanges have the ability to refund their users if something like that happens.

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Quote from: Stedsm on February 11, 2020, 07:19:17 PM

To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

but if you keep all your assets for too long at the exchange place it will pose a very high threat to you because the place of exchange can inadvertently collapse and there will be many assets that cannot be liquidated and held at the exchange place, there have been many cases it happens like that, so I think you should be able to be careful when storing assets in an exchange place.

Stedsm

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To me, I think Centralized exchanges are more user-friendly than DEXes due to which people don't like to visit their websites while they can do all the trading on a CEX app like Binance, Kucoin, Hotbit, etc. and that's the only reason why DEXes don't have much volume. Most of the DEXes I've seen are mostly based on Eth smart contracts, but I believe that Eth itself is Centralized so how can those DEXes be called as decentralized ones?

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Quote from: magneto on February 10, 2020, 04:43:31 PM

Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 10, 2020, 04:09:38 PM

There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

As I've said before, the lack of adoption of DEXs isn't because of the fact that people don't want to use them or reject decentralisation.

Quite the contrary, people in the cryptosphere want to embrace decentralisation, but they are forced to use centralised exchanges because DEXs simply can't fulfill their needs in terms of liquidity, speed, and customer support.

Most people understand the risks involved with storing their coins with a third party and most would want to avoid it. But right now, there is simply no feasible alternative, especially for whales.

I believe the centralized exchanges will be the solution for the mass since it's a ready-made solution accessible to anyone while the DEXs will be for the nerds/geeks.

We could compare it with Microsoft Vs GNU/Linux.
Despite the fact that operating systems based on Linux are free and with many benefits, we keep using Microsoft. We can't even argue by saying we have no choice because it comes installed by default. If we start to ask (in mass) new computers with an open-source OS believe me than the manufacturers will start to manufacture it and we will pay it cheaper.
We could also remove Microsoft ourself and install a GNU/Linux OS, it's easier and faster to install a Buntu for example than Windows
As of today, the majority use Microsoft but there is a large group of people using Linux.

Centralized exchanges are easy to use, you create an account and deposit funds wait a few days and click 3-4 buttons to buy your favorite cryptocurrency. With the DEXs it's something different. I'm not sure if we can say they don't fit their needs since in 99.9% of the case they never bothered to try once to use a DEX.

In the same way with the example, Microsoft/Linux, people who will want to become the nerd/geek of their own finance will use the DEXs. When it's about money people are pretty quick to learn.

Also, to be honest, if you ask the question to people randomly they don't really know what is decentralization and here too

coinfinger

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We do have a choice in the matter to stop them from becoming too big if we ever wish to do so. Centralized exchanges have an alternative, banks do not. If you do not like your bank, all you can do is using another bank, those are the options, nowadays with the improving technology there are digital banks and other so forth examples of options but in the end they are all banks and they are all regulated the same way.

However if you dislike your exchange, you can pick a decentralized one and use that which would in return give the power to traders instead of the central exchanges that collect your money and let you do whatever while you are not in possession of your own money and they can literally just use it for regular safe investments whenever they feel like it to make small income.

magneto

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 10, 2020, 04:09:38 PM

There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

As I've said before, the lack of adoption of DEXs isn't because of the fact that people don't want to use them or reject decentralisation.

Quite the contrary, people in the cryptosphere want to embrace decentralisation, but they are forced to use centralised exchanges because DEXs simply can't fulfill their needs in terms of liquidity, speed, and customer support.

Most people understand the risks involved with storing their coins with a third party and most would want to avoid it. But right now, there is simply no feasible alternative, especially for whales.

TheGreatPython

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There is a huge community enrolled with cryptocurrencies which love being decentralized but yet are using centralized exchanges. That is only because the DEXs might not provide us with major benefits and also the volume on such exchanges is comparatively low as they also posses the risk of being hacked or any such kind of risk. We could make the dex a better place to trade if a mass volume of community moves towards the decentralized exchanges.

Centralized exchanges have been dominated the markets but we should try to remain decentralized if we are related with cryptos unless until cryptos are been accepted as a regulated mean of payment globally.

deisik

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Quote from: Japinat on February 10, 2020, 02:22:37 AM

Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 06:01:00 AM

Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 05:31:08 AM

I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference

The difference you are talking about is in fact quite superficial

To trade on most decentralized exchanges, you have to buy the asset of the underlying blockchain with your real bitcoins (e.g. BitShares, or whatever they are called now) that an exchange uses to enable more or less smooth trading in a seemingly decentralized way. And while the decentralized exchange may not have the keys to your wallet, they are still controlling the blockchain of that wallet. Put differently, it is just another level of control, and if you ask me, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It is like Bitfinex fully controlling Bitcoin's blockchain

I get it, it's just a level of control but I feel more comfortable with using DEX as you just need to supply a simple information, the advantage is no KYC requirement, you just use their system and you are good to go, if only they have the volume and liquidity, I'm sure more people would use them

This level of control is less apparent

But it doesn't make it less strong or, if I can say so, less insidious and treacherous. In fact, it is the other way around. With regular exchanges, they can indeed steal your coins or claim someone else did that on their behalf, but it will be obvious and impossible to hide. However, they can't do anything with the coins as such, i.e. they can't arbitrarily change the respective blockchains as they have no control over them. The coins will exist and go on regardless of the exchanges where they are being traded, whatever may happen to them

This is not the case with most decentralized exchanges which use a private blockchain to enable trading in a seemingly decentralized manner. Technically speaking, they can do just about anything with that blockchain, and ultimately scam you out of your money because they are controlling every aspect of their blockchain, and, more importantly, they are controlling it in so subtle ways that you may not even be aware of the changes made until it is too late. That's the ugly truth about the majority of the so-called decentralized exchanges

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Quote from: thesmallgod on February 09, 2020, 09:31:04 PM

Quote from: btccashacc on January 26, 2020, 12:39:20 PM

I somehow agree that centralized exchange already became bitcoin bank, because most of the users are now using those centralized exchanges and have been upload their details in order to verificate their account, we can't avoid using echange without verifivation because they will limit some features such a minimum withdrawing or even do a trade.

Anyway. It depends on your crypto asset value. A lot of people use centralized exchange without verification. It is only when you have tons of btc that you begin to feel bothered about verification and besides why would someone keep a lot of BTC on exchange account. It is not save. I still prefer to use Centralized exchange because many of the decentralized ones are a piece of shit. From etherdelta to mercatox to forkdelta. From my experience, it is always rigorous to use and i dont like to upload or enter my private key on any exchange.

There is no issue in using centralized exchanges until they need us to verify our identity. Trading with smaller amounts onto those centralized exchanges would never cause any harm but if our daily trading volume exceeds above 2 BTC than the exchange might restrict you and make it mandatory to upload your KYC documents for verification which would never keep your anonymous anymore.

Decentralized exchanges would play a better role in such kind of situations as they would never ask for document verification but yet the benefits offered by such dex's are not that attractive to attract some traders onto the platform. Also there is minimum volume on such decentralized exchanges which would never make us find profits by trading with higher amounts because there would not be immense buy and sell orders to fulfill your orders.

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Quote from: deisik on February 09, 2020, 06:01:00 AM

Quote from: Japinat on February 09, 2020, 05:31:08 AM

I am just a bit confuse on the explanation of deisik where he stated that the so called decentralized exchange are not really decentralized, but as for me, I know the big difference

The difference you are talking about is in fact quite superficial

To trade on most decentralized exchanges, you have to buy the asset of the underlying blockchain with your real bitcoins (e.g. BitShares, or whatever they are called now) that an exchange uses to enable more or less smooth trading in a seemingly decentralized way. And while the decentralized exchange may not have the keys to your wallet, they are still controlling the blockchain of that wallet. Put differently, it is just another level of control, and if you ask me, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It is like Bitfinex fully controlling Bitcoin's blockchain

I get it, it's just a level of control but I feel more comfortable with using DEX as you just need to supply a simple information, the advantage is no KYC requirement, you just use their system and you are good to go, if only they have the volume and liquidity, I'm sure more people would use them.

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It’s this same issues that are causing a lot of newly started projects to be considering small exchanges for listing their coins because they know that they cannot afford all these big exchanges and their requirements. These new projects end up with the disadvantage of using a small exchange because they never get a high demand as they would if they made use of big exchanges.

There are some good projects you will see in the market today and you will be expecting them to be listed on big exchanges and after everything they end up on small useless exchanges and that’s the end of the project.

thesmallgod

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Quote from: btccashacc on January 26, 2020, 12:39:20 PM

I somehow agree that centralized exchange already became bitcoin bank, because most of the users are now using those centralized exchanges and have been upload their details in order to verificate their account, we can't avoid using echange without verifivation because they will limit some features such a minimum withdrawing or even do a trade.

Anyway. It depends on your crypto asset value. A lot of people use centralized exchange without verification. It is only when you have tons of btc that you begin to feel bothered about verification and besides why would someone keep a lot of BTC on exchange account. It is not save. I still prefer to use Centralized exchange because many of the decentralized ones are a piece of shit. From etherdelta to mercatox to forkdelta. From my experience, it is always rigorous to use and i dont like to upload or enter my private key on any exchange.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: pixie85 on February 09, 2020, 05:52:26 PM

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

That's not true, exchanges and payment processors aren't part of Bitcoin's protocol, and it's possible to use Bitcoin without them. You can do direct p2p trades to trade fiat and you can look for places that allow you to spend Bitcoin directly. I get what you are saying, but it's ambiguous to say that Bitcoin is semi-decentralized, and less knowledgeable people can see a wrong picture from it. Fundamentally Bitcoin is as decentralized as it has always been.

pixie85

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on February 08, 2020, 07:31:47 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on February 08, 2020, 06:23:59 PM

It's strange how much time it takes for people to get familiar with changes and accept them. The first step was making them go from a completely centralized fiat system to semi-decentralized Bitcoin. Now they're slowly getting ready for a completely decentralized system with anonymous cryptocurrencies and DEX.

I'm only afraid that it will take another 20 years and we'll be old farts unable to fully enjoy it when it comes.

Why are you calling Bitcoin "semi-decentralized"? It's pretty much the most decentralized cryptocurrency out there thanks to its node count, hashpower and global community. The ecosystem of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency exchanges is centralized, but it's not caused by any of the Bitcoin's properties, so it's wrong to say that altcoins are the future. And privacy has little to do with decentralization, they are different topics, and usually decentralization is needed to achieve privacy - not the opposite.

It's semi-decentralized because of fiat exchanges. At this time you're unable to do anything without a middleman in the form of an exchange. Note that payment processors are also exchanges, just more automated.
You buy Bitcoin with fiat to enter the crypto sphere and fiat is centralized and traceable. Then you put it on a centralized exchange where usually you have to get approved and share all your private data. Then you still cannot spend Bitcoin without a payment processor or an exchange unless you agree with someone that they will take Bitcoins directly from you.

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