Topic: **CEX.IO Bitcoin Exchange ** Buy Bitcoins with Cards in iOS / Android App*** - page 91. (Read 422328 times)

I'm in!
Nice work guys!

Looks like we are out of Beta 

Indeed very nimble and innovative pool design - love the clever build, flexibility, real-time stats.

Progressive? Definitely!  Professional? I guess.  Profitable? Possibly in time... Not quite there yet.

April 10th, 2014, GHash.IO has launched a brand new scrypt mining feature called the Multipool Pro. With its help our users will be able to mine the most profitable coins and use additional useful settings, such as the conversion and the switch settings.

GHash.IO, the #1 Bitcoin Mining Pool, has recently expanded its scrypt mining options allowing users to connect their hardware and mine LTC, DOGE, FTC and AUR. Now we have decided to develop features which will maximize the profit of scrypt mining, therefore we are happy to announce the launch of Multipool Pro.

What does ‘Pro’ stand for?

We interpret ‘Pro’ as ‘progressive’, ‘professional’ and ‘profitable’.

Progressive. We did our best to create an innovational scrypt multipool with exclusive features. GHash.IO follows trends and constantly adds new crypto-currencies (LTC, DOGE, FTR and AUR are being mined now). Moreover, the Multipool Pro operates as an integral part of GHash.IO, the #1 Mining Pool, which has shared credentials with the CEX.IO trading platform. Thus, users possess multiple opportunities of gaining additional profit from trading on the price difference. All these pros, in combination with real-time mining stats, make the pool progressive.

Professional. GHash.IO Multipool Pro is more than just a multipool. One of its main advantages lies in smart customization, such as the conversion and the switch settings. Users can not only mine cryptocurrencies, but also choose to convert them into BTC or LTC, as well as configure the miner to drop the current job when switching coins. Such simple, though significant features make our Multipool professional, and at the same time, understandable for both advanced users and beginners.

Profitable. The foundation of a multipool lies in mining the most profitable coin at any given moment, and this principle stays in the heart of the GHash.IO Multipool Pro. Here users are provided with real-time indicators, such as difficulty, block reward, exchange rate and profitability, which are calculated through a special algorithm. They are all shown in the summary table together with the “Last Hour Mining” pie chart. The Multipool Pro will be operating according to the proportional reward system: when a block is found, the reward is distributed among all workers proportionally to how many shares each of them obtained.

Caring about audiences

These three key points are valuable to the main GHash.IO target audiences: progressive — for experts and people keen on novelties; professional — for experienced miners; and profitable — for smart investors. We are confident that everyone will find a profitable niche in our pool and we will be able to satisfy various mining needs.

Finally, allowing users to choose from a wide range of mining options and maintaining our key advantages, such as stable hash-rate and professional support, will strengthen the position of GHash.IO as the #1 Mining Pool.

https://ghash.io/MULTI

Problem with withdrawing BTC "No Confirmation email has been sent" Fix it. Thanks

Edit: Fixed 

Completely agree, hookers and drug dealers have a much better understanding of business and finance than all these phony bankers and brokers.

"The City" ?  sorry to break it to you, but 20 years as a shoe shiner in "The City" doesnt mean much.  Anyone who worked on the street will realize how your rant makes as much sense as a uwe boll movie.

if one is forced to pick between futures vs forward, those contracts are futures as they are exchange traded and with a defined settlement structure.  Inability to short has nothing to do with the contract itself genius, even if you have a regular es mini futures contract if your brokerage refuse to provide you margin you still cant short it, and if cme itself disables short selling you also cant. They did just that to the equity exchanges in the 08 crisis.



because the spot is 0.01 and the settlement for those contracts are 0.008 and 0.004. 0.008 and 0.004 < 0.01 genius.  It's a speculative play on future difficulty/hashrate, just like any other derivatives such as options.

Stop with this nonsense, it's like nails on chalkboard. Go argue about valuation instead, at least then noone will be able to point out how clueless you are, as your guess is as good as mine (well probably not..)

On a side note, if they allowed shorting I'm pretty sure it would be done to such an extent that there is no longer a price drop lol. Everyone would be so furiously borrowing the GHs to sell and thus creating artificial demand that the price wouldn't shift downwards as greatly. Anyways, I agree that having futures contract without short-selling is rather deceptive of them - basically their expecting everyone to speculate and probably take a loss to line their pockets.

Don't make me laugh. I have 20 years in The City to your 10.

Calling an instrument a futures contract and not permitting short-selling goes against advertising standards.

I expect to be able to short a futures contract because I know the price is going to go down.

Why would I want to buy GHS a month or two ahead of time knowing that the spot price is trending downwards all the time?

I would jump on the contract if it lets me short it. And I expect to if it is a futures contract.

This is mis-representation and mis-selling of the highest order in an unregulated market.

Stop splitting hair, what does not able to short the contract have to do with anything? futures/forward contracts are very similar, the main difference is one is exchange traded, and the other is mostly private placement with custom term structure. There is nothing wrong with what cex.io did with fha/fhm and calling them futures contracts with a defined settlement.

If you want to argue about valuation that's fine, but whatever the **** you said about them being scam artist because they called the contracts futures instead of forward makes absolutely no sense.

I have been doing this for a living for the last 10 years, you make no sense.

Unfortunately, the MET are too busy taking bribes from Hollywood and arresting 12 year olds & "confiscating" their laptops for sharing the latest boyband song with their friend to be bothered about corporate theft/scams.

Bless the UKofA 

A scam is a scam. There is nothing to fix. The Metropolitan Police/Serious Fraud Squad should be making arrests but I doubt they have heard of Bitcoin.

Actually I think you miss the real problem with GHS, that is that it isn't well managed.   For example, if CEX really wanted a healthy market they could issue GHS dividends on the GHS held so the increased size of the pool wouldn't have such a negative impact.   Sure the price would still decline per GHS, but you would have more GHS to offset it.  That is only one approach.  They could maintain pricing by calling is something like a Mining Unit and adjusting the amount GHS it represented by the difficulty.   etc. etc.   They could do many different things if only they cared for their customers.

I didn't get the message that CEX didn't care until they suddenly flipped on the 2FA on everyone and I was locked out of my account for hours because their software couldn't handle the load of everyone trying to log back in.   Many were locked out and that was after a bad week at GHash.io.   By the time I could get on, it was too late and I had lost .5 BTC.   That crash was 100% CEX's fault and they didn't care.   That is why I pulled my BTC out of there.   In less than 10 weeks I've made back my .5 BTC and several more BTC to go with it.     

+100

Noobs - read carefully & learn.

All you need to know about CEX.IO

The price of GHS is constantly down-trending, which means that a buy and hold strategy will result in a loss of investment.

The holder of GHS is therefore expected to day trade their holding by second guessing market moves, which is unlikely. Anyone professing to have profited from day trading on CEX.IO is either a liar, extremely lucky (mean reversion will soon sort them out) or a CEX.IO shill.

CEX.IO latest gambling wheeze is a “futures contract”. Well, it isn’t a futures contract because you cannot take a short position. It is in fact a forward contract where you have to guess the price of GHS one or two month’s ahead and are then locked into taking delivery at whichever price you buy at.

For CEX.IO to call it a futures contract suggests that they do not know anything about financial contracts and are scam artists.

Not that the kids using CEX.IO will care. They will all gamble away their Bitcoins either on CEX.IO or some other gambling platform.

Read through this entire thread. Anyone extolling the virtues of CEX.IO is always short-lived. Today's extollers will be next month's no-shows.

300KH/s * 20 = 6 MH/s  ... I guess I gave you some breathing room.   I have seen specs up to 340 KH/s but not as high as 360 KH/s.   You won't know what your real speed is until you get it set up and running.   You could also overclock but that will shorten life and use a great deal more power.    

There is are much larger issues.  
* You have to spend a great deal of time doing this and keeping things going.  I touched on that before, but my time is worth something to me.   For every hour I spend on my mining you probably spend 3 or more.   What is your time worth?   If you are going the Gridseed route, probably not much.
* Taxes - which varies for where you are, but I have to recognize the coins mined as income if I mine with hardware.   Mining in the cloud gives me a lot more options and I don't have to recognize the income until I transfer the BTC out of the cloud.  That flexibility is worth a lot to me at my tax rates.   This may change as rules are often changing around bitcoin.  I choose to pay my taxes in lieu of risking a fight I can't win.  
* Social costs - I have a family, while my children might enjoy having a Gridseed farm set up, my wife wouldn't.   That is hard to be a value on but it is large.

Now you can't refute this:  
At scrypt.cc my cost per MHS is current less than 1.14 BTC.    (That is because of reinvesting, and that is in just over 2 months. I said 1.2BTC before but I was just ballparking that figure.)    Yesterday which was on the low side I made .0094 BTC / MHS.    So If I were going for ROI like it was hardware I'm looking at just 122 days, however it isn't hardware and I can easily sell my MHS today for 1.5 BTC/each and walk away with a .36 BTC / MHS profit and that gets better everyday!   That can't be easily done with hardware.   Your own argument seems to be based on a belief that the price of KHS at scrypt.cc has to rapidly depreicate.   That isn't the case yet because of the way the site is managed.   It all boils down to supply and demand.   However, the cost of a Gridseed unit is dropping fast, that should tell you something.   Yes more ASICs are coming ... big deal.

This here kind of casts doubt on the rest of your case. I didn't change anything. I gave you a full scale of pricing from 360 KH/s to 7.2 MH/s, all well bellow $500 per MH/s, and you pulled some 6.67 number out of nowhere. I get that you think you're making good money and seem to be happy with your investment, but there is no need to go into full denial mode and invoke bogus numbers to prove your point. Take care.

Cute you just change your argument.   You were talking about setting up 1 MHS and then you use the math for 6.67 MHS.   But you still totally are totally missing the point and the value of the cloud.   If you have multiple thousands to spend you can always get cheaper MHS with hardware, but most people that are using cloud services aren't able to do that.   Yes it is cheaper per MHS to set up a large operation, but that never was the point.   With a place like scrypt.cc you can start small and build, you can't easily do that with hardware.   For example for $.75 you can get a KHS and start collecting 4 to 5 satoshi's every 10 minutes.  What can you do with $.75 and ASICs?  

Point two - Yes you can point your hardware at different pools.   It takes time to determine which pool to use and it costs (lost coins) to switch pools.   I also have done some physical mining when I was starting out, but mostly I don't do it because I don't have the space or the cheap power where I live.   Even ASICs require power.    But the major multi-pools don't pay as well as scrypt.cc has been paying.   I don't know where CEX.io is in this yet.    As I mentioned I've been getting better than .6% a day lately, the multipools are mostly below that: http://poolpicker.eu/   Yes, I know this can change at any time.   But I'm not locked in, I can always sell my KHS.  

However again you are missing the point.   I never said or implied that ONLY scrypt.cc will be profitable, I said that ASICs will be on a much steeper declining profit curve, just like bitcoin.    That is the real problem with them, you have to break even and make money fast because you don't have much time to do it.   At this point I don't buy GHS at CEX.io because it is on the same losing curve as ASICs are for bitcoin.   However in the altcoin world things are different at least for now.   I'm sure that is why CEX.io is moving into altcoins.  

It doesn't matter what path you take, there are tradeoffs.  
- If you have large amounts of money up front you can build more hashing power for less cost.   (Although you are still short of your 50% premium at least with scrypt.cc)   However you have to make your money fast because you are locked in.    It is also a huge investment in time and you carry all the risks.
- With the cloud, it can be more expensive pre unit of hashing, but as long as you avoid contracts you aren't locked in and you can move as needed without losing your investment, but you have to pay attention to what is going on.   The key risk is finding a provider that is real and not a scam.   The main advantage is you can play with small amount or very large amounts.   I know one guy (larger than me) that started at scrypt.cc with around 60 BTC and is doing very well.  

Neither approach is a sure thing.   However at this point I have a lot more MHS than the 6.67 in your example for less cost because I've been reinvesting.  That is much harder to pull off with hardware.  My current cost is around 1.2 BTC per MHS and each MHS is currently returning .0094 BTC/day.   That is without trading.   At CEX.io I never was able to consistently profit with GHS.    I don't know how the new stuff will work out there.  

It seems like you didn't even look at the websites I mentioned, so I'll post more details just in case you are really interested (which I'm starting to doubt) in the correct math :

http://hashra.com/gridseedx20/ 7.2 MH/s, $3300 + $100 PSU (which is an overkill for 20, but let's be generous here), free shipping

$3400/7200 = $472 per MH/s

Or a single one (360 KH/s) + power supply here for $166:
http://www.gawminers.com/300-kh-s-single-gridseed-asic-miner/

$166/0.360 = $461 per MH/s

GPU math is somewhat similar regarding $ per MH/s, but power consumption is a factor there, so presumably the premium would be more in favor of cloud hashing with cheap power supply.


You're making some assumptions - which is ok - but I would disagree that this is the only way this can play out. First of all, anyone can mine on a coin switching pool, you don't have to be on scrypt.cc to do that. In fact with scrypt.cc you are locked into their pool, which is a disadvantage compared to owning a rig, which I can point to anything I want at any time. True, ASICs can't mine anything except plain Scrypt (not only LTC though), but it's somewhat naive to believe that when Scrypt becomes unprofitable all other GPU miners will just give up and only scrypt.cc will remain profitable. Major multipools will invest in the same coin changes that you mention and profitability will remain low unless there is a significant rebound in BTC price (which again would affect everyone equally). With ASICs you would at least have power consumption advantage, which can keep them viable for a lot longer.

So you have totally failed to prove your point, you claimed a 50% premium and it is nowhere close to anything like that.   In fact currently because of the price of BTC it is probably cheaper buying KSH vs setting up ASICs unless you are setting up a large amount.   However in the land of scrypt it remains to be seen how well ASIC will do as many coins are moving away from scrypt.   For 1 MHS you are going to have to work and take some risk to stay under $700.   (Actually your 150% would currently be $675)
Even your best claimed prices that I can't find in your listing don't get you there.  (3 * $160 + $100 = $580, far less than 50% you claim)  

In the end the premium doesn't mean anything because what matters is how much you can sell the KHS for.   The reason why CEX is moving to scrypt coins is because the impact of ASICs is different and profits will last longer.   Multipool GPU miners can switch coins where as ASIC miners will be trapped possible just on LTC in the future.   LTC will end up being like bitcoin.  However when you are dealing with a basket of coins you don't have the rapid increases in difficulty.   However, the few coins the current generation of ASIC miners are left will quickly see difficulty raise.  

A huge advantage scrypt.cc currently has is cheap power in Brazil.  I don't know were CEX.io will end up with the altcoin mining, it will be interesting to see.    

When the Gridseed miners started showing up there was a slight reduction in profits for a week or two.  There were a few days we didn't make the .5% a day, but were close.   Scrypt.cc responded by picking up some scrypt-N coins and for the last couple weeks we have been beatting .6% a day.   I don't expect that to last but at this point my breakeven point is less than 1 BTC / MHS.   That is a huge advantage of GPUs over ASICs.  GPUs can quickly adapt.   At this I could easily pull out with better than 30% profits for two months and it gets better every day.    You simple can't do that when you are running the hardware.

There may come a time when ASICs are likely in control in the altcoins, but we are many months if not years away from that.   Right now going down the ASIC path is risky at best and locking yourself into declining profits.

  

Pretty much all of them except LTC