CEX.io GHS Bubble ? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

picolo

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Quote from: Godye Sclaro X9 on June 22, 2014, 04:36:50 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin++ on June 22, 2014, 04:14:10 AM

I open CEX.io and find this rather confusing price:

GHS/BTC = 0.00747 which is the equivalent to THS/BTC = 7.47 = 4.487 USD

So you need to pay more than 7 BTC for one TH/s? It does not make sense at all. Here's why:

Currently one TH/s generates BTC 1.12 per month = 667 USD.

Don't forget maintenance. One TH/s costs 260 USD per month, reducing the profit to 407 USD, so it takes 11 months to break even. With difficulty increases it will surely never happen.

Am I right?

If you buy a mining contract and hold it, then it probably won't be profitable because you will end up with less bitcoins than the amount you put in. If that is your goal, then I agree it would be better to simply hodl the bitcoins themselves and your calculations seem to support this conclusion.

What you are forgetting is that you can profit by trading the mining contracts themselves.

The worst would be to reinvest your revenue in GHS because you will get a fraction of a fraction of the BTC you had

Also there is a risk of losing all your coins if the site closes

EvilPanda

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Small Red and Bad

Quote from: ranochigo on June 25, 2014, 06:44:41 AM

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 25, 2014, 06:07:56 AM

Quote from: thresher on June 24, 2014, 06:05:05 AM

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 AM

I disaggree, you can indeed make profit in cex.io. Its more like an exchange where your shares pay dividend each day.
Assume you buy 1GHS today @ 0.0075BTC.
1GHS makes approx. 0.00003736 BTC/day in today's difficulty. Taking maintenance fee into account:
fee is $0.26/month for 1 GHS
which makes 0.26/660 = 0,00039 BTC/month
which makes 0.000013 BTC/day
So this leaves about 0.0000243BTC/day.
There's also a 0.2% trade fee.

So in order to stay profitable, you could either sell the 1 GHS today for >0.007515 (0.0075 + 0.2%) BTC, or tomorrow for >0.0074907 BTC, or after 2 days for >0.0074664BTC and so on.
Of course these figures will change after each difficulty adjustment, but logic stays the same.
The way I see it, the only thing that makes it a risky investment is the possibility of a website hack/shutdown etc. (think mtgox) since all the coins/ghs are online.

When your shares start producing negative value everyday, your entire plan goes out the window. Now your "shares" are losing money every day, and the price of "shares" would have to skyrocket well above what you spent to compensate for the fact they essentially have a lean against them.
Your buying gh/s, that should only decrease in value (cex.io doesn't add new hardware for you, like they should in this type of model), the "shares" are losing value by mining with that ghs, and you are expecting to profit somehow? Thinking you can make profit on cex.io is the same as thinking your going to buy a brand new car, drive it off the lot, and sell it later for more than you paid, can it happen, yes (maybe the ford gt or something), is it likely, no.

I didn't say its a guaranteed win, yes the ghs price is way overpriced, however if you play it smart you can be on the positive side.
So far by trading and mining at the same time with the ghs my 2.4BTC have grown into 2.65BTC. When the ghs will start producing negative value (i.e. maintenance fee=0.000013 BTC/day > daily mining output)
then one of the following will happen
a) Cex.io will make the fee much lower such that it makes sense to own ghs
or b) ghs price will drop to 0.

For the options you think would happen,
a) they would need much newer hardware so that they can lower the fees.
b) I can say if that happens, I would be owning Phs of hashpower

CEX won't last long. If you have high prices in a competitive market you will either be forced to lower or lose clients.
There are much better services coming up, you'll see.

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 3038

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 25, 2014, 06:07:56 AM

Quote from: thresher on June 24, 2014, 06:05:05 AM

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 AM

I disaggree, you can indeed make profit in cex.io. Its more like an exchange where your shares pay dividend each day.
Assume you buy 1GHS today @ 0.0075BTC.
1GHS makes approx. 0.00003736 BTC/day in today's difficulty. Taking maintenance fee into account:
fee is $0.26/month for 1 GHS
which makes 0.26/660 = 0,00039 BTC/month
which makes 0.000013 BTC/day
So this leaves about 0.0000243BTC/day.
There's also a 0.2% trade fee.

So in order to stay profitable, you could either sell the 1 GHS today for >0.007515 (0.0075 + 0.2%) BTC, or tomorrow for >0.0074907 BTC, or after 2 days for >0.0074664BTC and so on.
Of course these figures will change after each difficulty adjustment, but logic stays the same.
The way I see it, the only thing that makes it a risky investment is the possibility of a website hack/shutdown etc. (think mtgox) since all the coins/ghs are online.

When your shares start producing negative value everyday, your entire plan goes out the window. Now your "shares" are losing money every day, and the price of "shares" would have to skyrocket well above what you spent to compensate for the fact they essentially have a lean against them.
Your buying gh/s, that should only decrease in value (cex.io doesn't add new hardware for you, like they should in this type of model), the "shares" are losing value by mining with that ghs, and you are expecting to profit somehow? Thinking you can make profit on cex.io is the same as thinking your going to buy a brand new car, drive it off the lot, and sell it later for more than you paid, can it happen, yes (maybe the ford gt or something), is it likely, no.

I didn't say its a guaranteed win, yes the ghs price is way overpriced, however if you play it smart you can be on the positive side.
So far by trading and mining at the same time with the ghs my 2.4BTC have grown into 2.65BTC. When the ghs will start producing negative value (i.e. maintenance fee=0.000013 BTC/day > daily mining output)
then one of the following will happen
a) Cex.io will make the fee much lower such that it makes sense to own ghs
or b) ghs price will drop to 0.

For the options you think would happen,
a) they would need much newer hardware so that they can lower the fees.
b) I can say if that happens, I would be owning Phs of hashpower

bomberb17

hero member

Activity: 773

Merit: 528

Quote from: thresher on June 24, 2014, 06:05:05 AM

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 AM

I disaggree, you can indeed make profit in cex.io. Its more like an exchange where your shares pay dividend each day.
Assume you buy 1GHS today @ 0.0075BTC.
1GHS makes approx. 0.00003736 BTC/day in today's difficulty. Taking maintenance fee into account:
fee is $0.26/month for 1 GHS
which makes 0.26/660 = 0,00039 BTC/month
which makes 0.000013 BTC/day
So this leaves about 0.0000243BTC/day.
There's also a 0.2% trade fee.

So in order to stay profitable, you could either sell the 1 GHS today for >0.007515 (0.0075 + 0.2%) BTC, or tomorrow for >0.0074907 BTC, or after 2 days for >0.0074664BTC and so on.
Of course these figures will change after each difficulty adjustment, but logic stays the same.
The way I see it, the only thing that makes it a risky investment is the possibility of a website hack/shutdown etc. (think mtgox) since all the coins/ghs are online.

When your shares start producing negative value everyday, your entire plan goes out the window. Now your "shares" are losing money every day, and the price of "shares" would have to skyrocket well above what you spent to compensate for the fact they essentially have a lean against them.
Your buying gh/s, that should only decrease in value (cex.io doesn't add new hardware for you, like they should in this type of model), the "shares" are losing value by mining with that ghs, and you are expecting to profit somehow? Thinking you can make profit on cex.io is the same as thinking your going to buy a brand new car, drive it off the lot, and sell it later for more than you paid, can it happen, yes (maybe the ford gt or something), is it likely, no.

I didn't say its a guaranteed win, yes the ghs price is way overpriced, however if you play it smart you can be on the positive side.
So far by trading and mining at the same time with the ghs my 2.4BTC have grown into 2.65BTC. When the ghs will start producing negative value (i.e. maintenance fee=0.000013 BTC/day > daily mining output)
then one of the following will happen
a) Cex.io will make the fee much lower such that it makes sense to own ghs
or b) ghs price will drop to 0.

beegatewood

sr. member

Activity: 297

Merit: 250

cex.io is always overpriced since the beginning, and you won't ROI on it but might make a profit buying and selling hash.

lowbander80

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

As a hero member suggested not a long time ago

GHASH CLOUD MINING PROFITABLE 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for the pool

thresher

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: bomberb17 on June 24, 2014, 05:43:42 AM

I disaggree, you can indeed make profit in cex.io. Its more like an exchange where your shares pay dividend each day.
Assume you buy 1GHS today @ 0.0075BTC.
1GHS makes approx. 0.00003736 BTC/day in today's difficulty. Taking maintenance fee into account:
fee is $0.26/month for 1 GHS
which makes 0.26/660 = 0,00039 BTC/month
which makes 0.000013 BTC/day
So this leaves about 0.0000243BTC/day.
There's also a 0.2% trade fee.

So in order to stay profitable, you could either sell the 1 GHS today for >0.007515 (0.0075 + 0.2%) BTC, or tomorrow for >0.0074907 BTC, or after 2 days for >0.0074664BTC and so on.
Of course these figures will change after each difficulty adjustment, but logic stays the same.
The way I see it, the only thing that makes it a risky investment is the possibility of a website hack/shutdown etc. (think mtgox) since all the coins/ghs are online.

When your shares start producing negative value everyday, your entire plan goes out the window. Now your "shares" are losing money every day, and the price of "shares" would have to skyrocket well above what you spent to compensate for the fact they essentially have a lean against them.
Your buying gh/s, that should only decrease in value (cex.io doesn't add new hardware for you, like they should in this type of model), the "shares" are losing value by mining with that ghs, and you are expecting to profit somehow? Thinking you can make profit on cex.io is the same as thinking your going to buy a brand new car, drive it off the lot, and sell it later for more than you paid, can it happen, yes (maybe the ford gt or something), is it likely, no.

bomberb17

hero member

Activity: 773

Merit: 528

I disaggree, you can indeed make profit in cex.io. Its more like an exchange where your shares pay dividend each day.
Assume you buy 1GHS today @ 0.0075BTC.
1GHS makes approx. 0.00003736 BTC/day in today's difficulty. Taking maintenance fee into account:
fee is $0.26/month for 1 GHS
which makes 0.26/660 = 0,00039 BTC/month
which makes 0.000013 BTC/day
So this leaves about 0.0000243BTC/day.
There's also a 0.2% trade fee.

So in order to stay profitable, you could either sell the 1 GHS today for >0.007515 (0.0075 + 0.2%) BTC, or tomorrow for >0.0074907 BTC, or after 2 days for >0.0074664BTC and so on.
Of course these figures will change after each difficulty adjustment, but logic stays the same.
The way I see it, the only thing that makes it a risky investment is the possibility of a website hack/shutdown etc. (think mtgox) since all the coins/ghs are online.

Zuminest

full member

Activity: 169

Merit: 100

not really a bubble, more like a downward spiral that the value of the GHash will never hit 0, but very close

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 4418

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: nuggetbram on June 23, 2014, 04:26:51 AM

I was mining on the ghash.io site for a while do to its good statistics and data, then buying ghs with the BTC I earned to give more more mining power while i sat on them, rather than leaving them in a wallet. Didn't make me much, but it was stil worth it

They charge a very high maintenance fee, the price of GH is dropping quite fast, the withdrawal fee is 0.001. You should have lost a portion of your money.

nuggetbram

full member

Activity: 326

Merit: 100

It took little effort - I earned them with my relatively low powered miner, they made a little extra for me, and in the end I sold them with about 2x ROI on my miner, so it turns out relatively well. Yes, I could have invested BTC in other places and made much more money, but this was a simple scheme requiring little to know effort

Bitsaurus

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Activity: 873

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Quote from: nuggetbram on June 23, 2014, 04:26:51 AM

I was mining on the ghash.io site for a while do to its good statistics and data, then buying ghs with the BTC I earned to give more more mining power while i sat on them, rather than leaving them in a wallet. Didn't make me much, but it was stil worth it

I'm not sure why you say it was worth it when you would have earned more if you didn't reinvest into their business model.

ranochigo

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Crypto Swap Exchange

There is a reason why they sell their shares instead of mining for themselves, it is impossible to hit ROI , but people won't listen and end up losing BTC when the price went down for the past few months. Most cloud mining will not be likely to hit ROI. They charge you a fee for trading with their overpriced GHS and charge you a high fee to withdraw and the minimum requirement to withdraw is also quite high.

thresher

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Activity: 700

Merit: 500

Quote from: SecureErase on June 22, 2014, 09:10:55 AM

What great bitcoin wisdom advice here....'Better play roulette' 'I advise you to play at a casino'

OP, if you buy any cloud mining contract and sit back and do nothing you are unlikely to come away happy. If you have the time to educate yourself a bit about what you are getting into then perhaps you can profit or at least learn something. With CEX and GHS you are buying a trade-able asset with a very liquid market, which also happens to generate dividends in the shape of mining returns once you have bought them.
GHS pricing has been downwards for months pretty much inverse to difficulty increasing, however that relationship has disconnected for the past 6 weeks or so as GHS pricing (in its market has found a bottom area and remained above that and slightly trending upwards).

thresher says CEX was the first one of 3 he pulled out of due to high costs on 'their shit scam site' but what he didn't tell you is that his PB money is completely gone as it can never be 'pulled out' and with Havelock the liquidity is so low good luck getting that out at a price you'd like.

Again educate yourself a bit about what it is you are buying into and the reasons for doing it and make sure you have an exit strategy as well as an entry.

I didn't say they were good, I said which one was the worst. Pb right now I believe I am 0.04 down at the moment (probably will pay off overall), I may have cashed out of havelock with profit, cex.io I ditched within the first two weeks, or less. Spent roughly 0.1 btc at all of them (I go through gambling phases, and when I win, I blow the money on nonsense lol.) I haven't monitored them really because I honestly didn't give a shit. All I know is pb and havelock seem legit, and cex.io is a scam.
I never saw pbmining or havelock produce a negative mining balance...... What I have seen is cex.io scamming people from day one, with a bunch of trolls that put referral links in their sigs to get money by scamming others into their bullshit.
Why does one buy cex.io gh? To dump on someone else for higher. If that isn't the plan please let me know how your increasing your btc by mining there.

nuggetbram

full member

Activity: 326

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I was mining on the ghash.io site for a while do to its good statistics and data, then buying ghs with the BTC I earned to give more more mining power while i sat on them, rather than leaving them in a wallet. Didn't make me much, but it was stil worth it

DrG

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Activity: 2086

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Quote from: Bitcoin++ on June 23, 2014, 03:21:55 AM

Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 02:37:07 AM

CEX pricing has been like this since day 1. It is well known that it is overpriced, at least for anybody who can do rudimentary math. Most people buying/selling on there end up trading in hopes of selling to somebody else for a higher price (greater fool concept).

If you're going to trade, you might as well trade on an exchange...

At lest I can take comfort in that someday the bubble will burst and all GHS will go to zero. Due to the rather high maintenance fee it should happen quite soon.

When this happens it will no longer make sense to operate Ghash pool at a loss (I think they did because some of the mining revenues went to CEX/GHS - which must have been extremely profitable)

Well I believe that is their business model. They were in effect selling the work that other miners did at a higher price than it was worth. If you mined or are mining there, you are the power that they were/are selling.

How else could they afford to operate with 0% fee?

Well they will have their profits (which I'm not against) and somebody will be left with nearly worthless shares Tongue

Bitcoin++

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Quote from: DrG on June 23, 2014, 02:37:07 AM

CEX pricing has been like this since day 1. It is well known that it is overpriced, at least for anybody who can do rudimentary math. Most people buying/selling on there end up trading in hopes of selling to somebody else for a higher price (greater fool concept).

If you're going to trade, you might as well trade on an exchange...

At lest I can take comfort in that someday the bubble will burst and all GHS will go to zero. Due to the rather high maintenance fee it should happen quite soon.

When this happens it will no longer make sense to operate Ghash pool at a loss (I think they did because some of the mining revenues went to CEX/GHS - which must have been extremely profitable)

DrG

legendary

Activity: 2086

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CEX pricing has been like this since day 1. It is well known that it is overpriced, at least for anybody who can do rudimentary math. Most people buying/selling on there end up trading in hopes of selling to somebody else for a higher price (greater fool concept).

If you're going to trade, you might as well trade on an exchange...

Bitcoin++

full member

Activity: 180

Merit: 100

Quote from: SecureErase on June 22, 2014, 09:10:55 AM

What great bitcoin wisdom advice here....'Better play roulette' 'I advise you to play at a casino'

OP, if you buy any cloud mining contract and sit back and do nothing you are unlikely to come away happy. If you have the time to educate yourself a bit about what you are getting into then perhaps you can profit or at least learn something. With CEX and GHS you are buying a trade-able asset with a very liquid market, which also happens to generate dividends in the shape of mining returns once you have bought them.
GHS pricing has been downwards for months pretty much inverse to difficulty increasing, however that relationship has disconnected for the past 6 weeks or so as GHS pricing (in its market has found a bottom area and remained above that and slightly trending upwards).

thresher says CEX was the first one of 3 he pulled out of due to high costs on 'their shit scam site' but what he didn't tell you is that his PB money is completely gone as it can never be 'pulled out' and with Havelock the liquidity is so low good luck getting that out at a price you'd like.

Again educate yourself a bit about what it is you are buying into and the reasons for doing it and make sure you have an exit strategy as well as an entry.

A casino has better odds than CEX' GHS. You are likely to lose in either case, but the Casino gives you better odds and you won't jeopardize this greatest monetary experiment.

SecureErase

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

What great bitcoin wisdom advice here....'Better play roulette' 'I advise you to play at a casino'

OP, if you buy any cloud mining contract and sit back and do nothing you are unlikely to come away happy. If you have the time to educate yourself a bit about what you are getting into then perhaps you can profit or at least learn something. With CEX and GHS you are buying a trade-able asset with a very liquid market, which also happens to generate dividends in the shape of mining returns once you have bought them.
GHS pricing has been downwards for months pretty much inverse to difficulty increasing, however that relationship has disconnected for the past 6 weeks or so as GHS pricing (in its market has found a bottom area and remained above that and slightly trending upwards).

thresher says CEX was the first one of 3 he pulled out of due to high costs on 'their shit scam site' but what he didn't tell you is that his PB money is completely gone as it can never be 'pulled out' and with Havelock the liquidity is so low good luck getting that out at a price you'd like.

Again educate yourself a bit about what it is you are buying into and the reasons for doing it and make sure you have an exit strategy as well as an entry.

Topic: CEX.io GHS Bubble ? - page 4. (Read 11388 times)