"Change the Code, Not the Climate" FUD campaign coming next month - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 31, 2022, 12:34:12 AM

I wouldn't say they are all like this. A lot of them believe in what they are told by the censored media simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise! For example they believe the "bitcoin PoW bad" FUD simply because nobody explained to them why it is FUD. Although I agree that there are some people who are too brainwashed to be saved

There are definitely too many of them, and I can only say I'm sorry I spent too much time trying to explain some things to them - and in the end I turned out to be some kind of criminal just trying to trick people and launder money through Bitcoin. While I wouldn’t agree that it’s just brainwashing, some people are just less intelligent (not to say stupid) to figure out some things.

Quote from: pooya87 on March 31, 2022, 12:34:12 AM

It is pretty hard to go against the massive propaganda machine with infinite funding that has been brainwashing people for decades but I have found out that it depends on how things are explained. A well versed person simplifying things based on their audience and talking with facts is very useful in countering propaganda.
For instance a lot of people believed Faketoshi but when explanations came out by experts, many of them were convinced he is a scammer.

Some realized after a long time, but the problem is that they believed in something at all that did not have any solid facts, and it was based on the words of a person who simply said "I am Satoshi". If someone who was one of Satoshi's closest associates can be convinced of such lies, then what to expect from the average person who watches it all from a great distance.

Quote from: https://coingeek.com/wright-is-satoshi-and-satoshi-is-right/

Gavin Andresen was the lead Bitcoin developer and maintainer in the early Bitcoin years and was picked by Satoshi himself to take charge of the Bitcoin project when he chose to “disappear.” In 2016, Gavin was attacked almost unanimously by the BTC world immediately after he publicly testified that Craig Wright was Satoshi. His commit access to Bitcoin Core on GitHub was revoked and other Bitcoin management accounts locked by other Core developers under the pretense that Gavin must have been hacked (of course he was not, and it became clear he was not when he spoke again, but he was permanently exiled because he was considered “dangerous” to the BTC world).

pooya87

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Quote from: Lucius on March 30, 2022, 10:10:47 AM

I have had the opportunity to meet all of them in real life, and these people do not deviate from their position no matter what someone tells them. If the guy who's going to fund this campaign believes in what he's been advocating for 10 years, then there's nothing we can do about it.

I wouldn't say they are all like this. A lot of them believe in what they are told by the censored media simply because nobody has ever told them otherwise! For example they believe the "bitcoin PoW bad" FUD simply because nobody explained to them why it is FUD. Although I agree that there are some people who are too brainwashed to be saved Tongue

It is pretty hard to go against the massive propaganda machine with infinite funding that has been brainwashing people for decades but I have found out that it depends on how things are explained. A well versed person simplifying things based on their audience and talking with facts is very useful in countering propaganda.
For instance a lot of people believed Faketoshi but when explanations came out by experts, many of them were convinced he is a scammer.

vv181

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Activity: 1932

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 30, 2022, 12:46:47 AM

Quote from: vv181 on March 29, 2022, 07:27:07 AM

Citing to Theguardian, they will run digital ads across "Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Marketwatch, Politico, Facebook and other publications".

Looks like they are aggressively attempting to spread the FUD to the mainstream people,

They've been publishing FUD articles in all the major media outlets already. Publishing ads on top of that is not really a big improvement in my opinion since ads are mostly ignored or blocked by ad blockers Tongue

It may not become a big improvement, but for those regular users who don't even use adblocker, they may fulfil the FUD narratives, which could make the narrative even bigger. Some people still got scammed by ads, anyway. I believe rather than the ads being ignored, the ads could likely have the chance to make mainstream people aware that there may something wrong with Bitcoin.

Quote from: pooya87 on March 30, 2022, 12:46:47 AM

Quote

which considering how cryptocurrencies exposure are recently blooming, there is a high chance that a lot of people got disinformed.

What has been a big concern is that they are raising legitimate concerns involving cryptocurrencies then they expand those to bitcoin. For example they use the money laundering that is happening in the token market (mainly NFTs these days) then claim bitcoin's sole purpose is also the same.

Unfortunately this is a strategy that you can see in all of their FUD articles and the concern is that people believe such masterfully crafted content that has some traces of truth. To put simply regular people can't distinguish between bitcoin and shitcoins so by giving them facts about shitcoins they convince them bitcoin is the same.

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

I believe I'm not thoroughly watching the FUD narrative evolve as you may did. But yes, educating a great distinction should follow in against to fight what they tried to do. After all, the longer Bitcoin stands its time, I believe it should make people realize that there is something essential that is tied to bitcoin. I presume it is kind of similar like Bitcoin Obituaries.

kryptqnick

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It's true that Bitcoin won't turn to PoS, it'll just be a new altcoin. And I do agree that climate change must be taken seriously. But turning to proof of stake won't solve climate change and will negatively impact Bitcoin. So such 'clever' solutions aren't helpful, not to mention how many times it was discussed that the impact of mining on climate change is often exaggerated. If they want PoS, they can campaign for using PoS coins and not using Bitcoin. Why would they attempt to change Bitcoin to meet their views and needs? And why not campaign for cleaner energy instead, to reduce the impact of mining on climate change?

Ale88

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Quote from: nullama on March 29, 2022, 01:22:50 AM

Chris Larsen, who founded his own altcoin 2012, is going to be one of the people funding this campaign:

Quote from: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-29/greenpeace-crypto-billionaire-lobby-to-change-bitcoin-s-code

Larsen said Bitcoin’s power consumption issue could be fixed via a soft or a hard fork -- both changing the network’s code to make Bitcoin less power hungry. A soft fork would preserve Bitcoin as a single blockchain. A hard fork would split Bitcoin into two separate networks, one supporting miners and the other running different code -- perhaps Proof of Stake.

The campaign believes that about 50 key miners, crypto exchanges and core developers have the power to change Bitcoin’s code.

Well, the nice thing about bitcoin is that if you don't like it you can try to make a fork, then people will decide which version to embrace. Does Larsen really think that the bitcoin community will choose a fork with a guy like him behind it? Good for him, for me this idea will fail miserably. I'm pretty sick and tired about this environmentally FUD about bitcoin, they have no idea what they're talking about.

franky1

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Activity: 4410

Merit: 4766

if the XRP founder thinks switching algo will 'fix' bitcoin.. then why is XRP so crap.. yep answer is because the lack of cost in making XRP is why no one values it more then $1

there is a reason why even in the most cheapest mining cost for bitcoin, the price at the same time does not go below that price.

same with gold no one would sell gold for under $1k if it cost $1k+-$2k to mine it.

XRP has no real cost hense why its at under $1 right now

..
as for the debate about energy usage of bitcoin.
it has already been worked out that if all cars(just family cars) were electric it would require 4000x more electric than bitcoin worldwide.
then add on the trucks and other vehicles and you soon realise that bitcoin is miniscule compared to other 'new tech' demands of this last and the next decade

Western_Boris

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: dkbit98 on March 30, 2022, 07:23:50 AM

Bitcoin affect on climate (that is always changing btw) is so miniscule compared to everything else and it only looks bigger if you are looking at it with a magnifying glass

Actually, Bitcoin does not affect climate at all. There are zero carbon emissions by Bitcoin. Coal and other polluting energy creation affects climate. Not matter where that electricity gets used. So it is not Bitcoins problem, it is energy creation problem.

Lucius

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 30, 2022, 12:46:47 AM

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

To them and at least 80% of those who think they know something about what Bitcoin is and how it actually works. Because the average person still trusts the mainstream media, and we all know that these media are under the direct control of the world's greatest powerful people who form a public opinion through them. Even if you know something, at some point you may wonder if you were wrong all the time after they started bombarding you every day with the news that Bitcoin mining is the killer of planet Earth, that it is used only by criminals and terrorists and those who want to escape paying taxes.

I have had the opportunity to meet all of them in real life, and these people do not deviate from their position no matter what someone tells them. If the guy who's going to fund this campaign believes in what he's been advocating for 10 years, then there's nothing we can do about it. Some will say that it should be ignored as Faketoshi, others that it should be retaliated against with the same measure, but no matter how someone puts it, I am sure that all of them will sooner or later fall into the hole they are trying to dig for Bitcoin.

dkbit98

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Change the code... make it centralized, look Vitalik is doing it... must be great.
Yeah, let's change everything for ''the climate''... just look how great shitereum is doing reversing transactions and changing their code all the time, planet is saved for sure Roll Eyes

Same people who are sharing this stupid campaign are also saying that people over 60 are responsible for third of greenhouse gas emissions... and than you know what would be their next ''ultimate solution'' for this issue.
Bitcoin affect on climate (that is always changing btw) is so miniscule compared to everything else and it only looks bigger if you are looking at it with a magnifying glass

Wind_FURY

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Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: jackg on March 29, 2022, 03:43:15 AM

If they're expecting investors to care about the planet, they're going to be quite disappointed.

And sure, a bunch of mining pools and a few people could have the power to change how the network mines but who's going to incentivise them to not want to make money and give up their infrastructure.

The moment they mention exchanges having to be involved in changing the protocol is probably the moment we can assume they don't actually know how they're going to do it without widespread adoption of a shitcoin that can replace bitcoin (and enough have already failed at that).

Because they're argument is flawed built on the wrong assumptions. Because "they" didn't take time to understand that the issuance of the currency within the protocol through POW is necessary. It's not only necessary, it's the only way to issue the currency credibly. THROUGH POW.

Western_Boris

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 6

They should use all that ad money to actual science and to help shift energy production from coal to green energy and not attack the systems like Bitcoin which do help the green energy production. Bitcoin already makes green nergy more affordable by makind wind energy, water, sun... more affordable, because energy company can get more money of those with bitcoin mining. Because there are always excess energy created by those that does not get used right away so it gets wasted and energy company does not get any money of that wasted energy. Nowdays there can be miners turned on when there are excess energy so it is more affordable to open new green energy.

It is also interesting how Exxon Mobil is making oil drilling more environtally safe by using flare gas for Bitcoin mining instead of burning it to sky to pollute the climate.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

Quote from: vv181 on March 29, 2022, 07:27:07 AM

Citing to Theguardian, they will run digital ads across "Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Marketwatch, Politico, Facebook and other publications".

Looks like they are aggressively attempting to spread the FUD to the mainstream people,

They've been publishing FUD articles in all the major media outlets already. Publishing ads on top of that is not really a big improvement in my opinion since ads are mostly ignored or blocked by ad blockers Tongue

Quote

which considering how cryptocurrencies exposure are recently blooming, there is a high chance that a lot of people got disinformed.

What has been a big concern is that they are raising legitimate concerns involving cryptocurrencies then they expand those to bitcoin. For example they use the money laundering that is happening in the token market (mainly NFTs these days) then claim bitcoin's sole purpose is also the same.

Unfortunately this is a strategy that you can see in all of their FUD articles and the concern is that people believe such masterfully crafted content that has some traces of truth. To put simply regular people can't distinguish between bitcoin and shitcoins so by giving them facts about shitcoins they convince them bitcoin is the same.

In my opinion, to fight this type of FUD we need to clarify this distinction for newcomers.

thecodebear

hero member

Activity: 2240

Merit: 848

ha yeah i saw an article about this earlier and i was just shaking my head. I like how they act like all it would take to change this is just a simple code change haha. As though Bitcoin is just some centralized piece of software. Anyways, the PoW mining fud has been very strong the past year and it will no doubt continue as long as people stay uneducated about Bitcoin. This anti-PoW advertising campaign only serves to spread that un-education.

LogitechMouse

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Hmmm what can I say to them? Maybe a Good Luck is enough.
I don't think that they will be successful to change the code of Bitcoin from POW to POS. They can create a fork (like most are doing) but still Bitcoin will be on the top. Whatever FUD's they might create, I still believe that investors are more intelligent now. Still Good Luck with their agenda but it will be unsuccessful.

so98nn

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I dont think the coin which is giving us more than $15 billion in rewards every year for mining work alone will go down just because of few FUD campaigns which are planned one. The FUD like this will never ever hamper the ecosystem of bitcoin which is built with excellent code, big aspirations behind the blockchain and infotech vision ahead of all!

The mining is still OK with what it does to the climate. I think they forgetting how a war which is live currently is hampering the climate and how they should be creating campaigns for the same and not against the Bitcoin. Bullshits!

vv181

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Activity: 1932

Merit: 1273

Quote from: nullama on March 29, 2022, 01:22:50 AM

They will buy ads in mainstream media publications ~.

Citing to Theguardian, they will run digital ads across "Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Marketwatch, Politico, Facebook and other publications".

Looks like they are aggressively attempting to spread the FUD to the mainstream people, which considering how cryptocurrencies exposure are recently blooming, there is a high chance that a lot of people got disinformed. In another hand, while inspecting their website(cleanupbitcoin.com), I couldn't be more irritated.

Quote

We know a basic software code change would reduce Bitcoin’s
energy use by 99.9%.
If only 30 people — the key miners, exchanges, and core developers who build and contribute to Bitcoin’s code — agreed to reinvent proof-of-work mining or move to a low-energy protocol, Bitcoin would stop polluting the planet. So why isn’t Bitcoin changing its code?

The funny thing is how could they ignore all nodes that contribute to the Bitcoin network. And the wording of "basic code change" is terrible, IMO. What is so basic about reinventing POW or migrating to another protocol, there are no such things as simple basic code change. And solely reconsidering it only for environmental concern wouldn't help it either. I think if the campaign gains any traction, there might be a new upcoming continuous FUD coming at Bitcoin.

tyz

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The joke of the matter is that a German newspaper reports today that behind the campaign is a millionaire financier who has provided a total of 5 million Euros for these ads. The statement of the activists is that the probability for the code change is low. They could have done so much better with the 5 million than to support a campaign that will not succeed anyway. One can really start to doubt the intelligence of these so-called climate activists.

davis196

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Merit: 937

The idea of changing the code of Bitcoin,in order to make it "less power hungry" has been shared multiple times across the years,and yet nobody hasn't been proposing any working solution.
I have nothing against a hardfork/softfork that will split the BTC blockchain and create some kind of "EcoBitcoin" or "Bitcoin Green".
It's pretty easy to predict that the Bitcoin Core blockchain and the Bitcoin Core community will remain united and a small number of altcoin seekers and environmentalists will support this "Bitcoin Green" PoS shitcoin.
Let them have what they want.They will leave the BTC community and probably stop with their FUD against Bitcoin.
I've always thought,that the freedom to choose between multiple options is what makes the crypto industry so appealing,even though 99% of the altcoins are shitcoins. Sad

Zilon

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Bitcoindata.science

I see this as a wasted effort already. This is similar to creating paid ads on mainstream media production to spread FUD to reduce the number of miners who confirm transactions on the blockchain. If there is any chance for bitcoin to switch from proof of work to proof of stake it will require a steady upgrade on the protocol software which will result some how on a split of protocol.

This FUD will only make sense in the minds of crypto novices or investors who are limited in knowledge about how the entire system works. I think the crypto communities should treat this as one of the numerous scandals against bitcoin so that it gets no implementation

avikz

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Quote from: mk4 on March 29, 2022, 01:36:20 AM

Goodluck convincing the community that's pretty much the biggest PoS critics, to hardfork their chain into the thing they're most critical about lmao. It's like convincing Snoop Dogg to stop smoking weed.

That's not their intention for sure. They certainly don't want to convince the crypto community or the bitcoin miners. They want to create a an opinion among the common mass who doesn't have much idea about bitcoin. It's easier to create a perspective in your kind, when you don't have an in-depth idea of the main concept. It's a psychological game they want to play.

I wonder who are funding such FUD campaigns from behind! I won't be surprised if I see some banker's name there!

Topic: "Change the Code, Not the Climate" FUD campaign coming next month - page 2. (Read 597 times)