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Topic: Change thermal paste with Artic MX-4 for Antminer S5 (Read 4229 times)

legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
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So, now we've heard that you should use way more than needed because the PCB is far from flat and doesn't show micro gaps but huge air gaps on some chips, no matter how tight you screw the heatsink back on. We have also heard that you should never use "too much" paste in general. I'm beginning to believe the S5 "use more than needed" crowd.

Which one is correct???
Using too much thermal paste can create an insulating layer and hence would prevent the heat from escaping. From the looks on OP's image (before application), the paste doesn't look particularly high quality and slightly too much. Screwing the heatsink too tight can cause damage to the chip.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001
So, now we've heard that you should use way more than needed because the PCB is far from flat and doesn't show micro gaps but huge air gaps on some chips, no matter how tight you screw the heatsink back on. We have also heard that you should never use "too much" paste in general. I'm beginning to believe the S5 "use more than needed" crowd.

Which one is correct???
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 501
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=905210.msg
Umm, way too much paste, and to the gentleman stating the gap is bigger than a standard PC, yes you are correct on some, but others make just as good of contact. You should apply the appropriate amount to each area.
Easy enough to check with carbon / transfer paper. You can make yourself "test shims" and shim each chip until your transfer touches. I never had to stack many shims at all in any of the S3, S3+, S4, or S5 systems I have.

Too much paste acts as a heat insulator rather than heat transfer and you end up losing any potential gains, or making it worse. To know if your repaste job helped or hurt your system you need to take temps using a temp gun, or other measuring device before and after completing the work making sure everything is the same in both cases. On the S5 for example you aren't getting temperatures from the chip on the Antminer display, and those temperatures have more to do with ambient air being moved past the chips and heatsink than the chip itself.
Of course you need to check again after a couple of days when it has really "set up" / "burned in"

Remove the sides, make a graph representing the miner broken down X amount of times in small squares, check the temp in each square and report it. Do your repaste job and repeat the same test. Then give it the normally recommended 48 hours to sit up and take your readings again.
In my opinion and experience if there is so much paste on the chip that when you put the heatsink against it the paste is pushed out and covers a ring around the outside of the chip you have went way too far and should cleanup, then start over.

You certainly are not helping the situation by insulating the heat in, and most threads like this aren't measuring properly.

I hope that helps someone with something but even with Asics when discussing thermal paste, less is more. Don't make a blanket of paste to cover the chip, make a bridge for the heat to travel across.

One tiny dot on most chips are fine, and some you may need a small amount more. Try the transfer paper. It does not add much time to an already tiring procedure and why not be accurate when performing a task such as this?

As the other gentleman stated, about the size of half a grain of rice. You can add more if it is really needed, but remember, more can harm the very thing you are attempting to correct and is the most common cause for a lack of better temps. With every other variable equal try one hash board the way you did it and the other the way many of us are saying, and show everyone what you find?

That sounds like a good project to add to the list.  Smiley

 
sr. member
Activity: 506
Merit: 253
most common S5 failure - overheating.
What temps are considered overheating? Above 80°C? Or are hardware errors the best sign of imminent failure?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 500
Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.
Yes, and air is worse, so it's better to displace as much air as possible with thermal paste. The more the better, it seems.

Although MG Chemical's animation says to apply a thin layer.

Hi guys, please note that S5 is not CPU or IC, it is different when using thermal paste. In this case, more paste is much better, I will explain it right now.

For its original purpose, it should fill microscopic air bubbles between both surfaces - CPU and heatsink. It is much better to use only very thin layer of paste to fill just the microbubbles. More paste will reduce direct contact between CPU and heatsink.

This is not case of Antminer S5 because of its wrong design. The PCB and chips on it are not touching heatsink at correct angle, they should be flat to flat, but it needs at least 4 screws for each ASIC to make it flat to flat surface with heatsinks. But, as you can see, there is much less screws and PCB with ASICs is curved, so there is flat to flat surface contact only with some ASICs, others have very poor contact, so filling all PCB with thermal paste is the best solution, since PCB around ASIC is also transferring its heat into heatsink.

This was much better before Ant S5, the chips was cooled by lower side through PCB which was flat except thin layer of covering paint.

So my suggestion for S5 is HUGE amount of thermal paste will reduce your temp and make your miner less sensitive to most common S5 failure - overheating.
sr. member
Activity: 506
Merit: 253
Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.
Yes, and air is worse, so it's better to displace as much air as possible with thermal paste. The more the better, it seems.

Although MG Chemical's animation says to apply a thin layer.
sr. member
Activity: 506
Merit: 253
You put too much thermal paste.
Really? It looked too little. I completely globbed it on mine and am now getting 10°C cooler temps: 58°C before, 48°C now!
I'm using MG Chemical's 0.66 W/mK conductivity silicone heat transfer compound, purchased from Fry's Electronics for about $18 for 150 g (5 oz).
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
I will try to repaste one of my S5s since one is 5-7celsius hotter then the other. I hope it will help.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1000
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much TIM!!!!!
legendary
Activity: 2030
Merit: 1076
A humble Siberian miner
In my case there was no any visible effect from replacement of thermal paste (also with MX-4).

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10095270
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000

Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.

Yes, but how are you going to get aluminum/copper into the microscopic surface divots on a microchip?  That's thermal paste's job.  If people understood the function of thermal paste they wouldn't heap gobs of it onto everything like they're making paper mache.

Exactly. I was telling the OP that this amount of paste goes beyond "microscopic surface divots on a microchip" :
Yup, just one of those dabs is probably enough for the whole board.

What do you use for paste removal?

Thanks

Use 99% rubbing alcohol.

Use coffee filters for cheap lint-free cloth.
legendary
Activity: 3808
Merit: 1723
What do you use for paste removal?

Thanks

Use 99% rubbing alcohol.
full member
Activity: 156
Merit: 100
What do you use for paste removal?

Thanks
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Today I get another pcb, put less thermal paste and see if anything changes, however, with the thermal paste and changed little, almost nothing, tonight I'll put the other card and see what happens
hero member
Activity: 637
Merit: 502

Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.

Yes, but how are you going to get aluminum/copper into the microscopic surface divots on a microchip?  That's thermal paste's job.  If people understood the function of thermal paste they wouldn't heap gobs of it onto everything like they're making paper mache.

Exactly. I was telling the OP that this amount of paste goes beyond "microscopic surface divots on a microchip" :


legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.

Yes, but how are you going to get aluminum/copper into the microscopic surface divots on a microchip?  That's thermal paste's job.  If people understood the function of thermal paste they wouldn't heap gobs of it onto everything like they're making paper mache.
hero member
Activity: 637
Merit: 502
Remember aluminium or copper is way better than thermal paste to transmit heat.
hero member
Activity: 896
Merit: 1000
Seal Cub Clubbing Club
You put too much thermal paste.

At first I thought it was a troll post. Nobody uses THAT much TP Tongue In fact I've seen tests done where using too much paste results in reduced effectivity.
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Why re-paste if you're going to put four times as much on as was there to begin with?  You put way, way, way too much paste on.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1021
2009 Alea iacta est
revelacaogr,  can you please test with or without cover at same room temp and same cooling?

thx!


i tested yesterday but i dont have a snap. I   can tell u for sure that:  without cover at same room temp and same cooling is 4-5c more
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