Topic: Chase Bank limits withdrawls, Bans international wires (Read 7581 times)

Update:

A later newsletter from a different branch of Agora Financial (publisher of the Daily Reckoning, see above) dated Oct. 18 suggests that the Chase story is overblown, but still not insignificant. Their conclusion:

"Blame it on the Patriot Act and the IRS requirements to flag cash transactions. It's not new... but the regulators are beating up on the banks a bit more these days, so they have to go through the motions of looking "more" compliant. Especially JPM, which has forked over $8 billion in fines since 2011 for assorted misdeeds, both real and imagined."

Yes and no.

EBT system did go down nation wide. as it came back up one Walmart location accepted the cards when they should not have. system was 1/2 up. Everyone else waited until it was fully back up.

So, it sounds like its just a case of Wal-Mart noobing, not the US Government's cards actually glitching out.

1. yes it's fraud. like writing a bad check.(not a lawyer) I just repeating news reports I have no firsthand knowledge of any of this. Also watching people in checkouts using them legally.


It's more like a debit card for food stamps that the USG deposits into. It can be used in many places but there are restrictions on what kind of items it's good for. Walmart corp did tell the local store to accept the cards without knowing the limit. nowhere else did that I have heard of did that.

1) Walmart can press charges on something like that? TBH I get that its unfair that these people get to spend however much they want, but it seems sorta like Walmart's fault. Also, "Walmart" didn't just ask him to leave, and employee did. Individuals tend to be much less vindictive than faceless corporations.

2) So basically these cards function like Walmart giftcards. Could they be used at other stores, and if so, were those other stores affected by the glitch, and if so, did those other stores have to eat the loss, or did Walmart (which would be sorta weird), or did the USG?

i sold a house once and asked for cash. what they did was give me 20,000 write a new check for the value of the original check -20,000 and i just took that check to the next bank and rinse and repeat. i mean i guess 20k is a limit on cash withdrawals but its a pretty large limit. thats just my anecdotal experience though, idk if it represents the norm or not.

As I understand it the system verified a valid card but did not return a balance of the card.

I have not hear an official answer but my guess is Walmart eats the loss.

There was a report of one person that was checking out as the balance info was restored. ~$700 on a $.49 balance.  Walmart just asked him to leave without food and did not press charges.

That's actually pretty funny. So what happened to the people who spent extra, were their debt cards in the future reduced or something? If not, who paid for the extra expense, walmart, or the government? Also, what exactly constitutes a "corporate government partner store?"

From a systems engineering perspective it seemed an odd sort of series of errors to me.  It looked to me like something of an empirical experiment especially as word came down from Walmart HQ to just let things roll in the 'wide open' phase.  Just sayin'

Whatever the case, the series of events had some entertainment value...tempered with a tinge of empathy...

It's like a fixed limit debit card in the US, so that people on unemployment relief can only spend their money in fascist, uh, I mean corporate government partner stores. Earlier last week, cards stopped working altogether in some states. Then this week, the inverse failure took place in Louisiana; the limits on the cards stopped working and people went on crazy shopping sprees. The limits were reinstated when some people were mid frenzy, there've been photos published of all the abandoned Walmart shopping carts with stuff piled as high as you can get.

What was the EBT card glitch?

It is this type of crap which makes me an even bigger Bitcoin believer (which I didn't think was possible). Fiat is in its death throes - Bitcoin is the future!

Yup.  Denial (which is rife here even on bitcointalk.org forum) could turn to outright panic in about one day under the right set of circumstances.  More likely, though, things will take the form of the boiling frog if the management of perception engineering is any good.

watching from the UK, in the last week or so, China has made a statement about a 'De-Americanised' world, the debt limit has been raised, Obamacare continues, there is talk of Obamacare fines being deducted from bank accounts, an  EBT card 'glitch' occurred, the US credit rating is in question, this Chase thing is about to kick in, and the EU has just announced it's going to use the yuan to trade... lots of things in a quick succession seem to be happening...

The Daily Reckoning newsletter dated Oct. 17 cites Simon Black (sovereign man) as their source for the story. I can't yet find it on Black's site though. This may be echo chamber propagation of something minor (or not).
Some of their details seem different from what is reported so far in this thread.

""These government agencies with the catchy, high-sounding names," writes the Sovereign Man's Simon Black, "are always the most dangerous. After all, it was the 'Committee for Public Safety' that was responsible for wanton genocide during the post-revolution Reign of Terror in France.

"Recently, the CFPB 'encouraged' retail banks in the Land of the Free to 'help' their customers regarding international wire transfers. And by 'help,' they mean prohibit."

Mr. Black is referring to letters sent by JPMorgan Chase's to its customers. Effective Nov. 17, depositors who bank with them won't be able to send international money wires, nor will they be able to withdraw more than $50,000 of their money in cash per statement cycle.

---- photo of Chase letter appeared here ----

"This is the very nature of capital controls," slams Black, "restricting the free flow of capital across borders until it is trapped inside the country and forcibly denominated in a rapidly devaluing currency."

It's not only Chase that's imposing wire transfer restrictions. HSBC is preventing its depositors from wiring money to their accounts overseas. That is, if Americans still have bank accounts overseas. In 2010, the Foreign Tax Compliance Act or FATCA was slipped into a last-minute piece of legislation -- the HIRE Act. It forces foreign banks to follow IRS reporting requirements for any American depositors. In response, most foreign banks are simply not letting Americans open accounts with them because it's not worth the trouble."

From the article:

  "Chase said it is not exerting new capital controls on customer accounts."

I would say that that is probably true.  What is happening is that regulatory bodies are 'exerting new capital controls' on people through financial institutions and by increasing certain pressures.  Whether this is by accident or design is a legitimate question, but it is capital control, it is working, and the end effect is certainly being felt.

I'm feeling it mightily right now since my wire from Mt. Gox has been held up for several months, and in order to capitalize on my BTC speculation I am being pressured to give up multiple high quality copies of sensitive identity documents to parties who I cannot fully trust.

In my case I actually WANT my transactions to be monitored and analyzed because my activity in Bitcoin-land is entirely legal and I have every intention of declaring my profits legally.  (It would be retarded to give the authorities an excuse to fuck me by not following the law to the letter, but that's just my opinion.)  Sending money through my bank who has 'vetted' me fully and reports activity to enforcement bodies should be perfectly sufficient to preclude both identity and reporting fraud.  Yet intermediaries are still being pressured to hold duplicate copies of my dox.  I can see no reason for it other than flat out harassment by regulators and/or efforts to influence capital flows.

BTW, I consider my identity dox themselves to be worth tens of $k because that would probably be what it would cost me if they were released into the wild over a life-time of fighting the issues that would be likely to crop up.  I've sent my dox to Mt. Gox only.  I would much rather have not sent them to anyone, but if they get ripped off now, I will know for certain that Mt. Gox is at fault...for whatever good that might do...

We didn't just imagine small banks and credit unions eliminating international wires entirely.

Positive information here:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2013/10/17/jpmorgan-chase-denies-new-capital-controls-on-accounts/

Our fears may be unfounded.

Apparently it's a provision of Dodd-Frank.

Did I miss something? I wasn't aware of anything like that.
I guess we need a lawyer here. What has changed? If there's new regulation, it's got to be somewhere.