China cracking down innovation | Bitcointalksearch.org

paxmao

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Quote from: justdimin on December 02, 2021, 01:26:31 PM

Quote from: shogun47 on December 02, 2021, 10:23:30 AM

As we have seen with Jack Ma, maybe the Chinese government is afraid of rich billionaires getting influence over the people. Business owners and journalists still just disappear, but would that be possible if a large group of billionaires unites their voices? I don't know, but it is hard to play a type of opposition role as they just destroy your life. Jack Ma was kicked in the ass just for raising his voice. If they can kick his ass, they can probably kick everyone's ass, but how would that change? Who has the power in the state to establish more democratic processes? It is hard to imagine that that could happen anytime soon in China. At the same time the government knows they have to allow for innovation or else they will lose against global competition.

I would say that they wouldn't care even if 100+ billionaires end up saying something. I mean it is obvious that they have a lot of power over people and they do not care if rich people start talking, they would just jail them anyway as soon as they get their hands on them. I would say only possible way for those rich people to talk and make a stand is taking their money out of china and putting it in USA or some other place that is safe, which we all know is not possible since China would not let them take all of their profits outside of China anyway.

So, they can't really talk and be safe, they will be in danger and that has been the case for most Chinese people who criticize china anyway. It is a dictatorship that kills anyone who go against them, so I doubt anyone could make any change.

As of now, BABA (the ticker for Alibaba company as listed on the exchanges) is not recovering. The actions by the CCP seem to have dealt a permanent blow to the investors trust in the system in the sense of treating investors fairly and ensuring the rule of law and an even playfield in the markets. I am surprised in fact that there are still Chinese companies that are not following this trend - perhaps investors are considering that this is a special situation that only affects DiDi, BABA and a couple others.

LUCKMCFLY

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There is something that many do not understand, the news helps us to keep ourselves informed only with what they can offer, there is much deeper news that most of us do not know, some news that are of great renown sometimes are not reliable, there is always some kind manipulation of information, and only those who are inside China are those who are experiencing the situation as it is and as it is, how everything is presented, many talk about the countries without even knowing the thought of those who are there, we broadcast opinions, which is normal, but there is something that is clear to me, in any communist system, people will never have happiness.

justdimin

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Quote from: shogun47 on December 02, 2021, 10:23:30 AM

As we have seen with Jack Ma, maybe the Chinese government is afraid of rich billionaires getting influence over the people. Business owners and journalists still just disappear, but would that be possible if a large group of billionaires unites their voices? I don't know, but it is hard to play a type of opposition role as they just destroy your life. Jack Ma was kicked in the ass just for raising his voice. If they can kick his ass, they can probably kick everyone's ass, but how would that change? Who has the power in the state to establish more democratic processes? It is hard to imagine that that could happen anytime soon in China. At the same time the government knows they have to allow for innovation or else they will lose against global competition.

I would say that they wouldn't care even if 100+ billionaires end up saying something. I mean it is obvious that they have a lot of power over people and they do not care if rich people start talking, they would just jail them anyway as soon as they get their hands on them. I would say only possible way for those rich people to talk and make a stand is taking their money out of china and putting it in USA or some other place that is safe, which we all know is not possible since China would not let them take all of their profits outside of China anyway.

So, they can't really talk and be safe, they will be in danger and that has been the case for most Chinese people who criticize china anyway. It is a dictatorship that kills anyone who go against them, so I doubt anyone could make any change.

shogun47

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Quote from: iv4n on December 01, 2021, 04:36:54 PM

Quote from: bL4nkcode on December 01, 2021, 10:55:51 AM

China is always into innovation, that's too clear in any technology aspects they have invented. Their government is just too greedy and wants to fully control their jurisdiction that no one will be above them, and that"s exactly what they're doing to all chinese business owners.

I agree with you... they are into innovations, they are constantly developing and that is visible, but in their wishes to control everything they can they are using all means! I don't trust most of the news from China, they are big manipulators! They are saying one thing, but under the table who knows what they are really doing and their real intentions! At least they are unpredictable for me, so I don't bother too much in analyzing them too much!

As we have seen with Jack Ma, maybe the Chinese government is afraid of rich billionaires getting influence over the people. Business owners and journalists still just disappear, but would that be possible if a large group of billionaires unites their voices? I don't know, but it is hard to play a type of opposition role as they just destroy your life. Jack Ma was kicked in the ass just for raising his voice. If they can kick his ass, they can probably kick everyone's ass, but how would that change? Who has the power in the state to establish more democratic processes? It is hard to imagine that that could happen anytime soon in China. At the same time the government knows they have to allow for innovation or else they will lose against global competition.

Kimonoe

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Quote from: iv4n on December 01, 2021, 04:36:54 PM

Quote from: bL4nkcode on December 01, 2021, 10:55:51 AM

China is always into innovation, that's too clear in any technology aspects they have invented. Their government is just too greedy and wants to fully control their jurisdiction that no one will be above them, and that"s exactly what they're doing to all chinese business owners.

I agree with you... they are into innovations, they are constantly developing and that is visible, but in their wishes to control everything they can they are using all means! I don't trust most of the news from China, they are big manipulators! They are saying one thing, but under the table who knows what they are really doing and their real intentions! At least they are unpredictable for me, so I don't bother too much in analyzing them too much!

China is a big country, the economy of that country affects the economy of the whole world, but what makes it less sympathetic is their way of gaining influence, like in crypto, where a lot of negative news comes from that country. in 2018, news from them had a big impact on crypto developments, in contrast to today, where the impact is not so significant, and is fast-paced

iv4n

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on December 01, 2021, 10:55:51 AM

China is always into innovation, that's too clear in any technology aspects they have invented. Their government is just too greedy and wants to fully control their jurisdiction that no one will be above them, and that"s exactly what they're doing to all chinese business owners.

I agree with you... they are into innovations, they are constantly developing and that is visible, but in their wishes to control everything they can they are using all means! I don't trust most of the news from China, they are big manipulators! They are saying one thing, but under the table who knows what they are really doing and their real intentions! At least they are unpredictable for me, so I don't bother too much in analyzing them too much!

DrBeer

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Quote from: oHnK on December 01, 2021, 10:44:26 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on November 29, 2021, 03:46:48 PM

With a high probability, the Chinese Communist Party decided to change the internal course, and all freedoms will be "curtailed". The Chinese economy is not as stable and powerful as it seems from the outside. The collapse of the construction market, very unexpectedly led to a problem with filling the market with microelectronics, and many other, so far not very noticeable events ... There is still a possible relocation of production sites to other countries. And all this will accumulate, up to a certain critical point, after which an "explosion" will occur ... And a country with a collapsing economy will appear on the globe, and with 1.6 billion population, with a bunch of internal problems and enormous internal tensions ... But that's another story

Actually, at this time we are being shown the real politics of the Chinese government who wants to take full power on the economy. After many companies are productive in their country and generate significant income to encourage double-digit economic growth, but we must be aware that their government is currently showing their fangs of power as rulers so that the private sector can comply with government regulations. This is very good politics for communist socialists. Do not want any private sector to dominate the market and become a capitalist country

If the Chinese authorities do not close the borders and block the withdrawal of funds, many "weighty" companies can quietly migrate outside of China and continue their FREE development. This will be a very serious blow to the economy - unemployment will be added, budget revenues (taxes) will fall, the development of the economy and the country as a whole will stop, which will lead to internal tension and protests. And Chinese business can be located anywhere - from neighboring countries to the EU or the United States, I think many will be glad to get working high-tech companies, new jobs, new taxes, a new impetus to development

bL4nkcode

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China is always into innovation, that's too clear in any technology aspects they have invented. Their government is just too greedy and wants to fully control their jurisdiction that no one will be above them, and that"s exactly what they're doing to all chinese business owners.

oHnK

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Quote from: DrBeer on November 29, 2021, 03:46:48 PM

With a high probability, the Chinese Communist Party decided to change the internal course, and all freedoms will be "curtailed". The Chinese economy is not as stable and powerful as it seems from the outside. The collapse of the construction market, very unexpectedly led to a problem with filling the market with microelectronics, and many other, so far not very noticeable events ... There is still a possible relocation of production sites to other countries. And all this will accumulate, up to a certain critical point, after which an "explosion" will occur ... And a country with a collapsing economy will appear on the globe, and with 1.6 billion population, with a bunch of internal problems and enormous internal tensions ... But that's another story

Actually, at this time we are being shown the real politics of the Chinese government who wants to take full power on the economy. After many companies are productive in their country and generate significant income to encourage double-digit economic growth, but we must be aware that their government is currently showing their fangs of power as rulers so that the private sector can comply with government regulations. This is very good politics for communist socialists. Do not want any private sector to dominate the market and become a capitalist country

Obito

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Quote from: 2double0 on November 29, 2021, 03:56:40 PM

China has been known for their strict control over anything they think that can ruin their power and get things slipped away from their hands, so they take away the freedom from their citizens, be it anyone with high or low position, but they will not let such power dominate theirs. They are trying to destroy btc because they thought btc is giving back power to the common people and they were not liking it.

That's because they know that they're still weak and that they can't let questions in for their citizens to learn. I mean questioning who governs you is basically the worst thing for the government to be put into because if they question how you do things then you're regime will collapse. I don't think that China cracks down on innovation though, they're just selective of what they're going to innovate in so as to make their country and party much stronger.

bekti3

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Quote from: CaVO32 on November 28, 2021, 01:53:46 PM

Quote from: bekti3 on November 28, 2021, 07:41:10 AM

I personally can't say anything about what is happening in Chinese society because I never know and there is rarely news about its citizens because it is possible that something is being covered up by the country because I rarely hear news about complaints or anything else. communicate with the public about the country.
but if you look more seriously what you say will be very true because there is no way they are not pressured by all forms of regulations that exist in china and recently there have been quite a few funny things that citizens have done to show workers' protest by doing tang ping which is a form of anxiety for their citizens

Their social media is highly censored and even searches are strictly monitored. This is why you can see a popular actress wiped out in their history. Good example is Zhao Wei, a popular actress that has been wiped out from their country's internet search. Now, it is no surprise if they will hold off some new innovations and not permit it to enter their regime. So do you really want to live in a country with topnotch economic power but your life is quite different from other normal people outside your region?

I didn't say that and I don't plan to be there because I still love the country I live in Cheesy

But if you look further then that's what makes them strong (at least in the eyes of the world). Even with the series of controversies they have created, that is precisely what makes them perched at the top of the world economy.
They do not hesitate to do something that they think is useful for advancing the country even if it hurts the hearts of its citizens.

2double0

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China has been known for their strict control over anything they think that can ruin their power and get things slipped away from their hands, so they take away the freedom from their citizens, be it anyone with high or low position, but they will not let such power dominate theirs. They are trying to destroy btc because they thought btc is giving back power to the common people and they were not liking it.

DrBeer

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Quote from: paxmao on September 06, 2021, 05:28:00 PM

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.
- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".
Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

With a high probability, the Chinese Communist Party decided to change the internal course, and all freedoms will be "curtailed". The Chinese economy is not as stable and powerful as it seems from the outside. The collapse of the construction market, very unexpectedly led to a problem with filling the market with microelectronics, and many other, so far not very noticeable events ... There is still a possible relocation of production sites to other countries. And all this will accumulate, up to a certain critical point, after which an "explosion" will occur ... And a country with a collapsing economy will appear on the globe, and with 1.6 billion population, with a bunch of internal problems and enormous internal tensions ... But that's another story

Fortify

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Quote from: paxmao on September 06, 2021, 05:28:00 PM

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.

- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

China has always been rather unpredictable, they've been most successful when they took a relatively hands-off and capitalistic approach to the economy in the last few years. They were guiding it and tidying up regulations as problems emerged (e.g. P2P loans) rather than taking overly harsh action. Now it seems that Xi Jinping is consolidating power back to the CCP, forcing CCP party members on to the board of every company, even though they may be utterly incompetent and lacking business knowledge. He is reverting back to the awful ways of the Mao era because he wants to create a cult of personality around himself. It will be a very bad thing for the world as it continues, because he has already set himself up as dictator for life - we can only hope he has a short one and reverts back to peaceful ways.

Huppercase

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Chinese is known for not an ass licking country. They want to be a country that control whatever they have, they don't want anything that is monopolies by group or individuals, this is among the reason they banned bitcoin though it's wrong in my opinion. Tje same goes for stocks and some other financial services control by USA.
I don't blame them if they chose not associate their self with what other countries are doing, they are well developed to the point that other nations depends on them and have most of the social stuff within their country, so let them be.

Congyang

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Quote from: CaVO32 on November 28, 2021, 01:53:46 PM

Their social media is highly censored and even searches are strictly monitored. This is why you can see a popular actress wiped out in their history. Good example is Zhao Wei, a popular actress that has been wiped out from their country's internet search.

worse than that I've read that they implement a social credit system there which reflects their dictatorship.
and the famous ones affected by this system are Xu Xiadong or Mad Dog who really wanted to reveal something that was there but he immediately received criticism from all parties including the government which made it very difficult for him to go anywhere and even now reportedly he is no longer there. its existence is clear.

Quote from: CaVO32 on November 28, 2021, 01:53:46 PM

Now, it is no surprise if they will hold off some new innovations and not permit it to enter their regime.

when you are there everything is possible for the government because it will be very difficult for ordinary people to be able to oppose.
the worst thing is that we can disappear if we don't obey their policies

Koro-Sensei

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Quote from: darewaller on November 28, 2021, 04:25:16 PM

I am as well not sure why they are fond of doing that. Maybe their communist party is afraid of people getting too much successful, because they feel that those people might one day reach the level that they won’t be able to stop them anymore, and as a result, it would lead to their downfall. So they are trying as much as possible to quench every fire. They don’t want to give their citizens too much of freedom so that nobody would be able to speak up against their rule.

Anyways, I think the people are just okay with living that way, because if not, then I believe they would have started speaking up and protesting for their rights. Although, I can’t really tell, it might be that people are just scared for their life, so they don’t want to speak up and have decided to stay mute. You might speak and there would be nobody to back you up, and you would just be on your own and suffer the consequences. We have seen how they always silenced those that tried to speak up against them.

That's what communism is. A monopoly and control in everything in their country. Just look at Jack Ma who's one of the richest there. He can't be reach now and no one knows exactly where he is only after he talks how China's economic structure were outdated. In my opinion however, communism is quite good but in just a certain degree of tolerance. Not like this where everyone who talks bad about them should be punished and worse gone immediately.

darewaller

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I am as well not sure why they are fond of doing that. Maybe their communist party is afraid of people getting too much successful, because they feel that those people might one day reach the level that they won’t be able to stop them anymore, and as a result, it would lead to their downfall. So they are trying as much as possible to quench every fire. They don’t want to give their citizens too much of freedom so that nobody would be able to speak up against their rule.

Anyways, I think the people are just okay with living that way, because if not, then I believe they would have started speaking up and protesting for their rights. Although, I can’t really tell, it might be that people are just scared for their life, so they don’t want to speak up and have decided to stay mute. You might speak and there would be nobody to back you up, and you would just be on your own and suffer the consequences. We have seen how they always silenced those that tried to speak up against them.

suzanne5223

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Quote from: bekti3 on November 28, 2021, 07:41:10 AM

Quote from: inanilujimi on September 08, 2021, 05:21:53 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

China's economy will not shrink or even kill because china is one of the most developed countries in the world and they are far ahead in terms of economy. Despite political intervention the chinese people do not want political change it is not about military power it is about the economy according to the latest survey report of the international monetary fund china is now the number one country in the world in terms of economic power. As an economic superpower china's transition has caused a stir around the world today china is a model of prosperity and development for the backward countries.

If you only see from the outside it will look beautiful, but the fact is that the Chinese people are not as prosperous as many people say. even now many of them cannot survive in China and choose to seek work abroad.

I personally can't say anything about what is happening in Chinese society because I never know and there is rarely news about its citizens because it is possible that something is being covered up by the country because I rarely hear news about complaints or anything else. communicate with the public about the country.
but if you look more seriously what you say will be very true because there is no way they are not pressured by all forms of regulations that exist in china and recently there have been quite a few funny things that citizens have done to show workers' protest by doing tang ping which is a form of anxiety for their citizens

@Xinarae, I think you don't understand what the Chinese people are experiencing through the crackdown, ban, and restriction done by their government which is what makes most of them to seek alternatives outside their country.

@bekti3, it the communist level of the Chinese government which also restricted their citizens use of the internet that makes it hard to hear or read news of things happening within the Chinese soil.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: paxmao on September 06, 2021, 05:28:00 PM

We have know that China has many times expressed and effectively carried out all shorts of moves against bitcoin, but recently they have made very serious moves that not only send a message for the future but also had very real implications for stock owners.

- Serious warnings to Ali Baba owner.
- A "voluntary" donation from Tencent to the "common good of Chinese people".
- A clear warning against any entrepreneur that has "too much public success".

Could this be dampening or even killing the expected growth of the Chinese economy? Are they, after all, still communist enough?

From what history tells us, you can always expect China to bluff and lie with their words and actions. In my eyes, China will spread misinformation if it serves their purpose and China will never miss an opportunity to make a profit, no matter how immoral or self destructive it may be. Communism is just a lie for the chinese ruling elite to stay at the top. Xi Jinping accuses all of his political enemies of unproven corruption so he can stay on the top. If we let them influence us then they will treat us the same way as they do their own people. Forced organ harvesting(of innocent people who are put to death on fake charges), concentration camps and of course, they will force you to sign your business over to them. This is the price of cheap outsourced labor - Slavery.

Bitcoin is something that could save the chinese people from this because the chinese government would no longer have control over their people's wealth. I think this is one of the biggest reasons why China has created the "great firewall". They know the outside internet is a danger to their system of domination. Their government will crumble sooner or later by the hands of their own people.

China is basically a rich North Korea.

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