China dictating prices | Bitcointalksearch.org

metalbean

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Quote from: Xester on January 07, 2017, 05:51:04 AM

Yes it is true that bitcoin has been a way for chinese people to place their money out of China. And that is why the government of China has placed a regulation placing a limit from 50,000$ down to 10,000$ annually,a limit amount on which the CHinese can send outside their country. If Chinese government had not placed a limit then possibly Chinese people will continue to purchase bitcoin then it will lead to economic crisis and collapse of currency. It will be good for bitcoin if they continue buying since it has greatly increased in price but it will be bad for their economy.

Due to money laundering cases soon China will leave Chinese Yuan and will replace it with fiat digital currency.

Interesting. I haven't heard about the new cap. Is it already in place or it's scheduled for mid year which is the time when they impose a new sets of rules irt money transfer.

metalbean

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on January 08, 2017, 12:53:32 PM

If the Chinese really are using Bitcoin to get money out of the country, could that not explain the wild swings that have been happening in the last few days?

I imagine that some buys a few million USD worth of Bitcoin on a Chinese exchange. They then transfer them to a US or European exchange, and cash out to a USD or Euro denominated bank account. That would move the market sharply in both directions.

If the Chinese really are getting money out of China using Bitcoin, they can't be holding the Bitcoin, as the market cap isn't high enough, so they must be selling too.

You are right on both counts.

To further elaborate

1. Chinese has been getting money out of the country for a long time You see, the average Chinese have strong faith in USD, but the swing has been exacerbated because the authorities had a coffee session with the three major exchanges. And this is a sign of tightening bitcoins control, hence the selloff.

2. You are right, 12 million bitcoin is worth 12 billion USD not including lost coins which some says is >50%. So that's only 5 billion which pales in comparison with 3 trillion USD FX reserces they have (I know it's apple and oranges). So they can't be only holding bitcoin, many are selling and buying and selling. Classic demand and supply Wink

icqcointokenwallet

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Many regulations will get pushed this year dealing with digital crypto currencies. The only way governments can control it right now is, limit the fiat you spend on bitcoin and others. Or simply just outlaw the use of bitcoin and others.

metalbean

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Quote from: deisik on January 08, 2017, 11:57:24 AM

Should I have written that part about devaluing national currency "without negatively affecting domestic economy" in bold or repeat it twice (or three times so that you would finally get it)? Basically, you have just thrown out the window what the Chinese government has actually been doing all these years, what is in the price charts, what Trump has constantly been accusing them of doing. You gotta tell him that this is all nonsense, he doesn't know a fuck about economics, and only you, RealBitcoin, know what's going on. Or should I just tell you go and educate yourself?

Why do the people who don't have a slightest clue about the subject always turn out to be most vocal in expressing their disagreement?

Am with you on this, it's like Modern Economics 101.

metalbean

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 08, 2017, 08:43:44 AM

That is nonsense, if they devalue their currency, they destroy the purchasing power of the citizens.

How the hell is that a sane economic policy if people live worse there just for the sake of exports.

Are wages going up faster there than inflation, because if devaluing is so great, why not make the CNY -99% less valuable if this policy is so good?

This is not nonsense.

Every economists know that China has been consistently devaluating their currency to increase export, and perhaps to the detriment of it's own citizen. But the negative side of things are contained as China creates everything for it's own citizen. The plus side of things , as we know it, is the made-in-china omnipresence.

The persistent argument in WTO revolves around this too.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Rocarlos on January 08, 2017, 12:04:17 PM

I do not know the tittle "china dictating price" is right or wrong but Once the china has a bitcoin ban , The bitcoin market has been down hard and it lost 300$ starting from the time that bitcoin hit over 1,100$. Therefore I think china is maybe controlling bitcoin price

If china were to ban bitcoin then a hit in the price will follow but there is the possibility the price will then suffer a spike if the investors decide to not care, or another crypto may end up rising in price spectacularly like those which offers anonymity as part of their design.

NUFCrichard

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If the Chinese really are using Bitcoin to get money out of the country, could that not explain the wild swings that have been happening in the last few days?

I imagine that some buys a few million USD worth of Bitcoin on a Chinese exchange. They then transfer them to a US or European exchange, and cash out to a USD or Euro denominated bank account. That would move the market sharply in both directions.

If the Chinese really are getting money out of China using Bitcoin, they can't be holding the Bitcoin, as the market cap isn't high enough, so they must be selling too.

dothebeats

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Well, given that Chinese markets already surpassed their passed ATH due to the previous bullish run, I could say that this statement is correct. The Western markets had a hard time following what China did however you get the point, the Westerners followed the trend of the Chinese so basically these traders from the East somehow dictated the prices. Also, it is not a surprise since Chinese has a large volume of trades happening every day and any inorganic rises on the price could easily be caused by them.

CyberKuro

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Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

They have money and resources to gain a lot of bitcoin by purchasing or mining.
If they have 50% of bitcoin in the world circulation, this is what happens right now regarding declined of bitcoin price.
Cashed out at high price and then buy at the lower, nice profits just for that.
Unhealthy condition for bitcoin that make volatile price.

Rocarlos

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I do not know the tittle "china dictating price" is right or wrong but Once the china has a bitcoin ban , The bitcoin market has been down hard and it lost 300$ starting from the time that bitcoin hit over 1,100$. Therefore I think china is maybe controlling bitcoin price

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: RealBitcoin on January 08, 2017, 08:43:44 AM

Quote from: deisik on January 08, 2017, 08:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shiroslullaby on January 07, 2017, 08:28:05 AM

The government is working hard to keep the value of CNY/RMB high

For the last few years the Chinese government has been doing exactly the opposite

In fact, this is what Trump has been constantly accusing the Chinese authorities in, among other things. Namely, in artificial and deliberate lowering the rate of the Yuan to the US dollar, so that the Chinese exporters could outcompete local American producers by offering American consumers more attractive prices for the same goods. Such policies are widely known as currency wars, or competitive devaluations. An export oriented country which devalues its currency most (without negatively affecting domestic economy, mind that) gains an advantage in international trade markets

That is nonsense, if they devalue their currency, they destroy the purchasing power of the citizens.

How the hell is that a sane economic policy if people live worse there just for the sake of exports.

Are wages going up faster there than inflation, because if devaluing is so great, why not make the CNY -99% less valuable if this policy is so good?

Should I have written that part about devaluing national currency "without negatively affecting domestic economy" in bold or repeat it twice (or three times so that you would finally get it)? Basically, you have just thrown out the window what the Chinese government has actually been doing all these years, what is in the price charts, what Trump has constantly been accusing them of doing. You gotta tell him that this is all nonsense, he doesn't know a fuck about economics, and only you, RealBitcoin, know what's going on. Or should I just tell you go and educate yourself?

Why do the people who don't have a slightest clue about the subject always turn out to be most vocal in expressing their disagreement?

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on January 08, 2017, 08:00:55 AM

Quote from: Shiroslullaby on January 07, 2017, 08:28:05 AM

The government is working hard to keep the value of CNY/RMB high

For the last few years the Chinese government has been doing exactly the opposite

In fact, this is what Trump has been constantly accusing the Chinese authorities in, among other things. Namely, in artificial and deliberate lowering the rate of the Yuan to the US dollar, so that the Chinese exporters could outcompete local American producers by offering American consumers more attractive prices for the same goods. Such policies are widely known as currency wars, or competitive devaluations. An export oriented country which devalues its currency most (without negatively affecting domestic economy, mind that) gains an advantage in international trade markets

That is nonsense, if they devalue their currency, they destroy the purchasing power of the citizens.

How the hell is that a sane economic policy if people live worse there just for the sake of exports.

Are wages going up faster there than inflation, because if devaluing is so great, why not make the CNY -99% less valuable if this policy is so good?

deisik

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English ⬄ Russian Translation Services

Quote from: Shiroslullaby on January 07, 2017, 08:28:05 AM

The government is working hard to keep the value of CNY/RMB high

For the last few years the Chinese government has been doing exactly the opposite

In fact, this is what Trump has been constantly accusing the Chinese authorities in, among other things. Namely, in artificial and deliberate lowering the rate of the Yuan to the US dollar, so that the Chinese exporters could outcompete local American producers by offering American consumers more attractive prices for the same goods. Such policies are widely known as currency wars, or competitive devaluations. An export oriented country which devalues its currency most (without negatively affecting domestic economy, mind that) gains an advantage in international trade markets

davis196

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Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

Yes,Chinese have major influence over the bitcoin price.

I wouldn`t say that this is "unhealthy" for bitcoin.It doesn`t matter that much for btc growth.

It was a short term speculation bubble,which was good for some bitcoin holders.

ArdiPrabowo

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iam not understand bitcoin price down because yuan or dollar
this time bitcoin price incraese dollar is strong too, if dollar price down is same yuan price down too bitcoin price down,
so bitcoin down because yuan or dollar, because same down

Some Mouse

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Quote from: pooya87 on January 07, 2017, 11:57:15 PM

Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

they are saying Chinese are going to use bitcoin to transfer money out of China because government has put a limit to the amount they can transfer out. with that said all of these things are speculations not facts things like this may happen in small scales but it is not yet big.

also it is not bad, all these different usages are going to exist simultaneously and don't need to be unhealthy or bad necessarily.

Wouldn't this be a good thing since as people shift away from fiat to BTC it's going to be increasing buy support and driving up demand just like what happened in India?

pooya87

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Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

they are saying Chinese are going to use bitcoin to transfer money out of China because government has put a limit to the amount they can transfer out. with that said all of these things are speculations not facts things like this may happen in small scales but it is not yet big.

also it is not bad, all these different usages are going to exist simultaneously and don't need to be unhealthy or bad necessarily.

ldreligion

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Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

China's efforts to crack down on capital outflows have made it possible for the Chinese to transfer bitcoins to foreign countries. Since August 2015, the sudden devaluation of the yuan, the yuan fell 10%, the same period bitcoin appreciation of nearly 4 times. Traders in China's exchange to buy bitcoins with the yuan, and in the foreign exchange to sell bitcoins to obtain dollars. It is difficult to transfer funds out of China so that China's exchange bitcoin transaction price higher than its U.S. dollar 5%
With the strengthening of the RMB, the U.S. Eastern time on January 6th bitcoin prices approaching a record high, then plunged 23%, after a rebound, to close at $977. The so-called currency of the spread of the so-called 9 years of intense fluctuations in the past, after the last rally was plunged in 2013. Foreign media think it's the two major driving forces of the sharp decline in China's buying. Bitcoin transaction 90% is now in China, and in 2013 was only $45%.

blackmagician

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Quote from: metalbean on January 06, 2017, 09:05:31 PM

Many have mentioned that BTC is now used as a way for smart Chinese to transfer their money out of China as the Chinese RMB is continuing its devaluation systematically, is this enough to sustain the needs of BTC price growth?

I also think that many have made valid points that the price growth, if true, has been largely based on money transfer but very little life real case of e commerce and what not, is this unhealthy?

If they can dictate the price of bitcoin, maybe they have already the 50% of all bitcoin. They can drive the price of.bitcoin to whatever they want, they can even push the price to its highest value.and im waiting for that.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Shiroslullaby on January 07, 2017, 08:28:05 AM

Chinese Yuan gained 1% yesterday and lots of Bitcoin holders cashed out between $1000 and $1100.
This caused the drop in price to the $800 range.

The government is working hard to keep the value of CNY/RMB high.
With president Trump promising to change trade deals the next few months could cause a lot of uncertainty for the price of Chinese currency,
and there is no telling what effect this could have on Bitcoin.
It will be interesting to say the least.

Oh so that's the reason it plunged, I had no idea being a newbie. Yes the Chinese buying bitcoins to send abroad does increase the price but can you just imagine if lots of them suddenly cashed out... No wonder a lot of people are complaining that the Chinese have to much "control" of bitcoin. They may not actually have ways to manipulate the crypto but simply having a large number of bitcoin users being in China means things getting nasty there could ruin bitcoin for everyone else.

Hoping that impending switch to digital fiat will not negatively affect bitcoin. I just heard about this quarter of last year and I'm yet to make money out of it.

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