China is able to do 50%+1% attack. It means, China dominating the crypto's. Or?

ifinta

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Quote from: portergeiss on April 11, 2021, 10:42:43 PM

Quote from: ilovealtcoins on April 11, 2021, 11:03:33 AM

Just maybe, it's a risk, but it won't happen. Miners make a living by mining Bitcoin, If they collude with each other to attack the Bitcoin network, it also means that they accept to crush their rice bowl. Not a single fool comes to see what he has created, crumbling.

Risk means for me - a risk. It can be happen. Nobody calculating with it, I see also... ... ... What an amount of wealth here just tends into a black hole. I am wonder.

Only question is - WHICH wealth? Wealth in Yuan? in dollar? in ETH? in BTC? in GOLD?

portergeiss

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on April 11, 2021, 11:03:33 AM

Just maybe, it's a risk, but it won't happen. Miners make a living by mining Bitcoin, If they collude with each other to attack the Bitcoin network, it also means that they accept to crush their rice bowl. Not a single fool comes to see what he has created, crumbling.

Risk means for me - a risk. It can be happen. Nobody calculating with it, I see also... ... ... What an amount of wealth here just tends into a black hole. I am wonder.

ilovealtcoins

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Just maybe, it's a risk, but it won't happen. Miners make a living by mining Bitcoin, If they collude with each other to attack the Bitcoin network, it also means that they accept to crush their rice bowl. Not a single fool comes to see what he has created, crumbling.

ifinta

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Quote from: Fortify on April 10, 2021, 02:35:54 PM

While a 50%+1 attack is definitely something to be wary of, especially from a country like China, I wouldn't be so concerned about a quantum computing attack. It used to be something I considered and it might have put me off Bitcoin for a while, but once computing technology gets to that stage then all encryption will be rendered meaningless. At least until some sort of quantum encryption can be used to counter it, if such a thing were even possible. All banking institutions would be vulnerable to attack and the very bedrock institutions that we all rely on would be rendered defenseless against such quantum computing attacks - there would be no safe harbor so bitcoin theoretically should not suffer any more or less than other places used to construct transactions.

What are You think about quantum computing resist algo's as i.e. the protocol of IOTA? >;DO=

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.56759100

Fortify

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While a 50%+1 attack is definitely something to be wary of, especially from a country like China, I wouldn't be so concerned about a quantum computing attack. It used to be something I considered and it might have put me off Bitcoin for a while, but once computing technology gets to that stage then all encryption will be rendered meaningless. At least until some sort of quantum encryption can be used to counter it, if such a thing were even possible. All banking institutions would be vulnerable to attack and the very bedrock institutions that we all rely on would be rendered defenseless against such quantum computing attacks - there would be no safe harbor so bitcoin theoretically should not suffer any more or less than other places used to construct transactions.

ifinta

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We was before the pandemic... It is possible for miners to move away from China, other countries, ... just NOW?

Quote from: error08 on November 07, 2019, 03:16:56 AM

China doesn't own 51% hashrate, it belongs to the mining pools which have left the country when the government crackdown bitcoin, ban exchanges and miners.
And those mining pools aggregate consists of miners come from various countries joining the mining pool.
Furthermore, China doesn't own the majority of nodes that support the bitcoin network. The U.S. is leading with 25.88% and China ranks 8th with just 3.26%.
Maybe that is the reason the Chinese government scraps plan to ban cryptocurrency mining.

Source

ifinta

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Any opinion about my post on the face?
https://www.facebook.com/vortexledger/posts/947582198992631

ifinta

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Quote from: coolcoinz on November 07, 2019, 12:14:59 PM

Quote from: Linkkoin on November 07, 2019, 11:35:13 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on November 07, 2019, 11:28:58 AM

Like it was said by some people China is one one company.

This can be called "state capitalism", where you need to closely collaborate with government (or simply be a member of a party) in order for your business to grow/operate.

I meant to say "not one company" but it looks like you understood it despite that mistake.
Ok fine, governments say jump, companies jump, but how would the government coordinate a 51% attack? How would the government keep such a big operation involving thousands of people a secret? Many miners would rather sell everything and go out of business before the attack is executed than participate in it and lose everything anyway.
I just don't see something like that working out, especially now after the recent news from China.

Through army is it possible to constrain every miner to do, what the state wants. Simple.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: Linkkoin on November 07, 2019, 11:35:13 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on November 07, 2019, 11:28:58 AM

Like it was said by some people China is one one company.

This can be called "state capitalism", where you need to closely collaborate with government (or simply be a member of a party) in order for your business to grow/operate.

I meant to say "not one company" but it looks like you understood it despite that mistake.
Ok fine, governments say jump, companies jump, but how would the government coordinate a 51% attack? How would the government keep such a big operation involving thousands of people a secret? Many miners would rather sell everything and go out of business before the attack is executed than participate in it and lose everything anyway.
I just don't see something like that working out, especially now after the recent news from China.

Febo

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Quote from: ifinta on November 01, 2019, 10:41:45 PM

China is able to do 50%+1% attack. It means, China dominating the crypto's. Or?

Google has quantum supremacy.

What are you thinking?

Who is China? The biggest country? I dont think China have one single miner. But lest say tomorrow China buys tons of ASIC miners. What they will do then? Cheat people out of their Bitcoins. They will buy grain from someone and pay with Bitcoin and then revers transactions back? They will be thefts? That is what you believe China is? A country with 4000 years tradition will now suddenly start stealing peoples money? If Chian want to rob people they can do it without Bitcoin mining farms. They can steal any way they want.

Goggle have, I dont even know, a 40 qubit computer? 40 qubit computer cant break Bitcoin algorithm. You need 267 qubit computer for that. I dont understand why is that so hard to understand for some. It wil take at least 10 years that Bitcoin will be forced to just in case change algo.

enhu

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Even if the successfully destroy BTC using that quantum computing, they wouldn't be able to destroy blockchain. It would be pointless to destroy this technology and bitcoin because there are already forks. Anyone in fact everyone can create their own coin if they wanted to and will still have intrinsic value if we try to reboot and again start fresh with quantum resistance.

Linkkoin

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Quote from: coolcoinz on November 07, 2019, 11:28:58 AM

Like it was said by some people China is one one company.

This can be called "state capitalism", where you need to closely collaborate with government (or simply be a member of a party) in order for your business to grow/operate.

coolcoinz

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So much FUD by OP. NOt only that China can do a 51% attack but also that Google will use quantum computer against us. This is really too much for me to handle.

Like it was said by some people China is not one company. It doesn't own private bitcoin mines and even those mines aren't cooperating and will not cooperate because not everyone wants to put the network at risk. Some of these miners hold Bitcoin and a 51% attack would make them lose money. This is how decentralized network works. None of the participants have enough power to damage it and all participants aim to protect their own interest, which may differ, making them all willingly or unwillingly work for the system, not against it.

error08

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China doesn't own 51% hashrate, it belongs to the mining pools which have left the country when the government crackdown bitcoin, ban exchanges and miners.
And those mining pools aggregate consists of miners come from various countries joining the mining pool.
Furthermore, China doesn't own the majority of nodes that support the bitcoin network. The U.S. is leading with 25.88% and China ranks 8th with just 3.26%.
Maybe that is the reason the Chinese government scraps plan to ban cryptocurrency mining.

Source

Kakmakr

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Quote from: ifinta on November 02, 2019, 02:15:51 AM

Quote from: NathanJB on November 01, 2019, 11:04:45 PM

Quantum supremacy is but words for now. And although it is a possibility that is coming nearer in reality, there is nothing to be afraid of. This is only a big deal for FUD spreader and their victims. Quantum technology in computers is not monopolized by Google. The geniuses in the crypto world has already anticipated it long before it will even hit the market. In fact, steps have been done both in planning and in actual development that will somehow address this Quantum hype and FUD.

You don't understand me. Maybe you not read everything in the first post.
I think, google can change the software in this new kind of computer - and mine a little on the Bitcoin Network, to show, what a kind of efficiency this new computer has.
Maybe with some similar computer can google (alone or with partners) decrease the mining power of China below 50% ... And then... As I wrote:

Quote from: ifinta on December 28, 2011, 01:23:14 AM

...

firstly CPU mining. (technology A - public)
then GPU mining. (technology B - public (fortunately) but technology A not an opponent)
... some other public technology, pools, merged mining, and so on...
in future: technology X coming - (not published - owned by some (or one) persons/firms/...) AND (technology A and technology B and other public technologies aren't an opponent) - the controll of members of Bitcoin forum over bitcoin (and our "money") loosed!

...

You do not understand how the protocol adjust the difficulty when massive amounts of hashing power are introduced. The difficulty will simply go up and it will become a lot harder for people with powerful computers to compete with massive mining farms. Roll Eyes

Also, even if Quantum computing are introduced, stronger encryption will be implemented to protect people's coins. There are stronger encryption out there already, but it was not practical at the time to use it, because there were nothing strong enough to decrypt it.

Remember, Bitcoin is a piece of software and software can be changed to adopt to the changing needs or threats to it's users.

mu_enrico

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From an economic perspective, a 50%+ attack (or double-spending attack) is not feasible because miners need to invest in mining equipment, buildings, power facilities, etc. These investments are way more expensive than the profit they will get from such attacks (double spend). They are thinking long term, just like what Satoshi said in the whitepaper. Hence, Google et al., would choose to secure the network instead of ruining their investment.

If the attackers split the network by changing the rules, other honest miners will keep extending the honest chain. Then you will have "Forked BTC" and "Honest BTC." The honest BTC will prevail for sure.

Last, quantum computing is still far-far away from being used in cryptography. Researchers need to deal with more qubits and its error rate. QC is more like an analog device at the moment with too much noise.

beerlover

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Just because they can (and they can't) doesn't mean they are capable of . Remember the segwit period for example, almost all of china's miners got together and turned their pools into non-segwit approach but they failed, they made a hard fork that was bitcoin cash in the end but they couldn't change bitcoin itself hence why we can use segwit right now for cheaper.

It means miners can't make as much money as they used to but it means everyone else will be able to do transactions for cheaper and faster. Do you really think all those miners accepted this? Of course, not they were against it but since they didn't had the majority they couldn't. Sometimes when you need to change the blockchain from one to another you need a lot more than just 50+1% so china still doesn't have the control.

ifinta

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What are you think, what is a 50% + 1% attack?

A miner is able to create extra bitcoins, or decide which transactions will be done - maybe invalid transactions also.
What are you think, what value will 50000 Bitcoin have, if the united Chinese miners will be doing such things? I think 50000 BTC will have the same value in dollar, as 500000 BTC ...
What a dominance will have one or more whale then? I think, the same.
0 dollar economical power...

Quote from: Wintersoldier on November 06, 2019, 09:55:18 AM

Quote from: Google+ on November 03, 2019, 06:39:26 PM

I think the country of China only has a variety of technologies and many citizens who already know bitcoin and many people who know how to buy bitcoin even in China also have a very large and very large bitcoin mining company so that it can make the country of China able to control the conditions a little cryptocurrency market.

Basically what they can have is a huge volume of the hashing power that the cryptocurrency needs in order to process transactions. But in order to dominate bitcoin, they need to have huge control over it. That control would not be considered to be the hash power, but the power of whales to manipulate bitcoin. As the main reason why bitcoin is known worldwide is its capability to produce huge market price. And being able to control that huge market price will be classified as the dominance.

Wintersoldier

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Quote from: Google+ on November 03, 2019, 06:39:26 PM

I think the country of China only has a variety of technologies and many citizens who already know bitcoin and many people who know how to buy bitcoin even in China also have a very large and very large bitcoin mining company so that it can make the country of China able to control the conditions a little cryptocurrency market.

Basically what they can have is a huge volume of the hashing power that the cryptocurrency needs in order to process transactions. But in order to dominate bitcoin, they need to have huge control over it. That control would not be considered to be the hash power, but the power of whales to manipulate bitcoin. As the main reason why bitcoin is known worldwide is its capability to produce huge market price. And being able to control that huge market price will be classified as the dominance.

ifinta

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Quote from: Reid on November 05, 2019, 07:44:39 PM

Quote from: stompix on November 05, 2019, 12:18:13 PM

Quote from: ifinta on November 02, 2019, 09:19:21 AM

The biggest farms are in China. They had already more as 50% many years before... I think, this portion is more at this time.

And do you have any kind of proof for this apart usual China owns bitcoin bs?

I read page 1 and 2 and up until now there is no answer to this.

Okay, your point is about google taking the larger power of mining and then China? So 50-50 to them then there will no more miners that could do it?
So are you saying they have the control with bitcoin afterwards because of that capability?

Look at your surrounding, specially here in bitcointalk forum. Dont you see greed?
I don't think they will be focused on mining bitcoin. They will create their own and try to bring down bitcoin. That is what I see which could happen in the future. But due to the support of the people bitcoin might stay alive even if brought down by those companies.

If I have that futuristic technology then forget about bitcoin. I will create something better. Grin

Yes, I see greed. And I will do also, if the bitcoins will have 0 value. I started a diskussion about it - at right time, I think. If you have only greeds, then please, my answer is here: Grin

Topic: China is able to do 50%+1% attack. It means, China dominating the crypto's. Or? (Read 634 times)