Using BTC for investment is out yes.
There will always be a crowd claiming they support the idea, and aren't in it for the money.
Topic: China is out, is Crypto sunk? (Read 2581 times)
Just a silk road repeat, and the panicked overselling is probably going to lead to an accelerated rise later.
No not the same. china is 2nd largest gdp in the world.
So what? China earns only 4USD for manufacturing 1 iPhone. They could be easily replaced by other southern / southeast Asia countries
You said "only" and then they could easily be replaced... does not compute.
Also this is way different than silk road. Silk road put bitcoin in the headlines. This is actual prohibition to a large part of the in flow of money.
They can only earn 4USD out of an iPhone because they are doing something with really low value. These could be done in other emerging countries, and even cheaper. It's already happening
I've said it before, and i'll say it again:
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
Without traders, Bitcoin would be infinitely more volatile.........
BittBurger you make me do the impossible, agree with Mat here for the first time... Normal traders do reduce volatility, because they buy below current trading price and sell above. People who do ignite rallies and panic sellofs are newbie holders, people with no economic background, who sheepishly run wherever herd master tells them to. Once the market for bitcoin grows larger, they won't be able to influence the market much, so stabillity will come. Ensured by traders. We can see that after every new rally the dip is 10% smaller than the previous one. More serious money, more traders, more stability.
At this minute BTCChina has the same price like btc-e again (651$)
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd
No-one has yet provided a good answer to this:
Chinese government is ALWAYS on the inside of all big Chinese companies.
So, why did...
...promote/accept/transact with bitcoin? Did Beijing look at bitcoin for a a number of years, decide in 2013 that they would let all those firms do bitcoin business and promotion, then suddenly change their mind completely? I don't think they're that fickle, or that indecisive. Watch out for headlines to the effect of "Chinese government Bitcoin advice misunderstood". Someone in the Chinese Communist Party wanted to take the heat out of the Chinese market for an unknown reason, but I don't think such a significant decision (to allow use and promotion of new-fangled e-currency) would be taken lightly.
Chinese government is ALWAYS on the inside of all big Chinese companies.
So, why did...
- Chinese television
- Chinese consumer banks
- Chinese payment processors
- Major Chinese retailers
...promote/accept/transact with bitcoin? Did Beijing look at bitcoin for a a number of years, decide in 2013 that they would let all those firms do bitcoin business and promotion, then suddenly change their mind completely? I don't think they're that fickle, or that indecisive. Watch out for headlines to the effect of "Chinese government Bitcoin advice misunderstood". Someone in the Chinese Communist Party wanted to take the heat out of the Chinese market for an unknown reason, but I don't think such a significant decision (to allow use and promotion of new-fangled e-currency) would be taken lightly.
yawn, china has done nothing but
[1] show the demand in china for crypto to the extent the govt feared it
[2] Brought 1.2 Billion plus peoples attention to crypto's and the money to be made and by this I mean the freedom to preserve wealth and self determination
[3] How in effective the Chinese govt is against btc
[4] The real riots will be when btc is at 10K then 100K and the Chinese govt will be held accountable by its people for not letting them buy in
[1] show the demand in china for crypto to the extent the govt feared it
[2] Brought 1.2 Billion plus peoples attention to crypto's and the money to be made and by this I mean the freedom to preserve wealth and self determination
[3] How in effective the Chinese govt is against btc
[4] The real riots will be when btc is at 10K then 100K and the Chinese govt will be held accountable by its people for not letting them buy in
I've said it before, and i'll say it again:
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
You are mental.
Unless a trader is big enough to intentionally create volatility in the market in order to provide profiteering opportunities (and I am sure a good handful of these guys exist), traders bring liquidity to the market. Who else is buying on the downslides or selling on the upsurges?
Without traders, Bitcoin would be infinitely more volatile.........dare I say it? Yeah, I am gonna!.....
DUUHHHRRRRR! 
Agreed. I simply sell higher, and buy lower, than whatever the price currently is. I'm simply providing liquidity (admittedly a pathetic drop in the bucket, but still.)
I've said it before, and i'll say it again:
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
You are mental.
Unless a trader is big enough to intentionally create volatility in the market in order to provide profiteering opportunities (and I am sure a good handful of these guys exist), traders bring liquidity to the market. Who else is buying on the downslides or selling on the upsurges?
Without traders, Bitcoin would be infinitely more volatile.........dare I say it? Yeah, I am gonna!.....
DUUHHHRRRRR! 
I've said it before, and i'll say it again:
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
Bitcoin itself hasn't changed, begun to fail, been compromised, or anything that would justify wild fluctuations in value.
Stupid humans and day traders are the cause of that.
Whats happening out in the world right now is adoption and exponential growth.
If the trading market had any relevance to Bitcoin itself, it would reflect whats actually going on.
Instead it reflects whatever any random journalist turd on Business Insider decides to write about it.
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
Bitcoin itself hasn't changed, begun to fail, been compromised, or anything that would justify wild fluctuations in value.
Stupid humans and day traders are the cause of that.
Whats happening out in the world right now is adoption and exponential growth.
If the trading market had any relevance to Bitcoin itself, it would reflect whats actually going on.
Instead it reflects whatever any random journalist turd on Business Insider decides to write about it.
You tell 'em STFU! and wait for your BTC to go 7 digits
I've said it before, and i'll say it again:
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
Bitcoin itself hasn't changed, begun to fail, been compromised, or anything that would justify wild fluctuations in value.
Stupid humans and day traders are the cause of that.
Whats happening out in the world right now is adoption and exponential growth.
If the trading market had any relevance to Bitcoin itself, it would reflect whats actually going on.
Instead it reflects whatever any random journalist turd on Business Insider decides to write about it.
The trading market (most of you guys in this subforum basically, no offense) are the reason for Bitcoins volatility.
Bitcoin itself hasn't changed, begun to fail, been compromised, or anything that would justify wild fluctuations in value.
Stupid humans and day traders are the cause of that.
Whats happening out in the world right now is adoption and exponential growth.
If the trading market had any relevance to Bitcoin itself, it would reflect whats actually going on.
Instead it reflects whatever any random journalist turd on Business Insider decides to write about it.
Wonderful news. Buy the weak hands.
Of course. They simply pay out the ass to have people take care of it for them.
This is no longer necessary.
This is no longer necessary.
And what do they pay exactly? Could it be people who are making sure their assets don't get taken away by other people who aren't as fortunate?
Who do you think sponsors the status quo?
That wouldn't be any different with bitcoin, with the exception that they would have to pay off us first.
Which can only go so far, because at a certain point the moneybags do not have anything to gain from Bitcoin since they are already profit from the existing financial system.
Nothing except freedom. Worthless thing that.
HAHAHA billionaires and freedom.
They want power dude.
Uh huh. So... these power seeking billionaires... they enjoy asking permission to spend or store their money then?
Freedom is power, especially monetary freedom.
Do you really think they have any issues with monetary freedom? (whatever that is supposed to mean)
Power means political influence and such...
China is out........of credit. Yuan credit is sunk
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/business/international/china-rates-approach-crisis-levels-despite-central-bank-measures.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1&
Quote
China Rates Surge Despite Central Bank Measures
By NEIL GOUGH
Published: December 23, 2013
HONG KONG — A bid by China’s central bank to curb soaring interest rates and relieve pressure on the financial system appeared to have come up short on Monday, as Chinese money market rates shrugged off the measure and continued to approach the highs seen in June.
The central bank, the People’s Bank of China, said late Friday that it had provided more than 300 billion renminbi, or about $50 billion, in short-term funds to selected banks over a three-day period that week.
Rates continued to surge on Monday, however, in China’s money markets — a key source of short-term funding for commercial banks and also for financial institutions engaged in risky, off-balance-sheet shadow lending.
One key rate, the seven-day repurchase rate, rose as high as 10 percent on Monday. That was double the rate of a week earlier and the highest level since June, when the People’s Bank of China allowed rates to surge in an effort to curb speculative investment in the country’s sprawling shadow banking sector.
China’s banks are scrambling for short-term cash to meet month-, quarter- and year-end regulatory requirements. At the same time, demand for cash is high among Chinese companies seeking to meet year-end payments.
These and other factors have combined to push the costs of short-term borrowing in China up drastically, a situation that if left unchecked, could leave some banks struggling to meet their obligations and could have implications for the broader economy.
By NEIL GOUGH
Published: December 23, 2013
HONG KONG — A bid by China’s central bank to curb soaring interest rates and relieve pressure on the financial system appeared to have come up short on Monday, as Chinese money market rates shrugged off the measure and continued to approach the highs seen in June.
The central bank, the People’s Bank of China, said late Friday that it had provided more than 300 billion renminbi, or about $50 billion, in short-term funds to selected banks over a three-day period that week.
Rates continued to surge on Monday, however, in China’s money markets — a key source of short-term funding for commercial banks and also for financial institutions engaged in risky, off-balance-sheet shadow lending.
One key rate, the seven-day repurchase rate, rose as high as 10 percent on Monday. That was double the rate of a week earlier and the highest level since June, when the People’s Bank of China allowed rates to surge in an effort to curb speculative investment in the country’s sprawling shadow banking sector.
China’s banks are scrambling for short-term cash to meet month-, quarter- and year-end regulatory requirements. At the same time, demand for cash is high among Chinese companies seeking to meet year-end payments.
These and other factors have combined to push the costs of short-term borrowing in China up drastically, a situation that if left unchecked, could leave some banks struggling to meet their obligations and could have implications for the broader economy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/business/international/china-rates-approach-crisis-levels-despite-central-bank-measures.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1&
This article fails to report another phenomenon (which is really part of the same story).
Regional Chinese banks are issuing their own "real economy" IOU notes to combat the slowing money circulation (i.e. only to be used for short term, non speculative deals). They're selling them to financial brokers at anything up to half the face value (bank hands over 1000 yuna IOU, broker hands over 500 yuan cash). This is a clear move to get cash onto the balance sheets and goods and services to keep trading.
But the brokers are a little too overwhelmed with getting "twice" the face value of their cash for these promissory notes, and are buying them for any and all speculation (kind of messed up logic; one set of promissory notes layered upon another
). Of course the regional banks aren't accepting promissories from each other, so there's a curious dynamic developing with non-official (to the central bank, anyway) regional currencies inflating the local money supply at the business level. Sounds like potentially a complicating factor, even if it's preventing liquidity problems in the short term.... 
Contrary to what is claimed higher Bitcoin prices do not come from more and more people buying in with less money. It's less and less more and more richer suckers entering the market.
Which can only go so far, because at a certain point the moneybags do not have anything to gain from Bitcoin since they are already profit from the existing financial system.
At this point the Bitcoin exchange rate will tumble over.
In a way it's great since the biggest sucker can give a large amount of money to many people. Even more so if they fall to the sunk cost fallacy. (Winkledouches)
Which can only go so far, because at a certain point the moneybags do not have anything to gain from Bitcoin since they are already profit from the existing financial system.
At this point the Bitcoin exchange rate will tumble over.
In a way it's great since the biggest sucker can give a large amount of money to many people. Even more so if they fall to the sunk cost fallacy. (Winkledouches)
Hello revans.
China is out........of credit. Yuan credit is sunk
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/business/international/china-rates-approach-crisis-levels-despite-central-bank-measures.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1&
Quote
China Rates Surge Despite Central Bank Measures
By NEIL GOUGH
Published: December 23, 2013
HONG KONG — A bid by China’s central bank to curb soaring interest rates and relieve pressure on the financial system appeared to have come up short on Monday, as Chinese money market rates shrugged off the measure and continued to approach the highs seen in June.
The central bank, the People’s Bank of China, said late Friday that it had provided more than 300 billion renminbi, or about $50 billion, in short-term funds to selected banks over a three-day period that week.
Rates continued to surge on Monday, however, in China’s money markets — a key source of short-term funding for commercial banks and also for financial institutions engaged in risky, off-balance-sheet shadow lending.
One key rate, the seven-day repurchase rate, rose as high as 10 percent on Monday. That was double the rate of a week earlier and the highest level since June, when the People’s Bank of China allowed rates to surge in an effort to curb speculative investment in the country’s sprawling shadow banking sector.
China’s banks are scrambling for short-term cash to meet month-, quarter- and year-end regulatory requirements. At the same time, demand for cash is high among Chinese companies seeking to meet year-end payments.
These and other factors have combined to push the costs of short-term borrowing in China up drastically, a situation that if left unchecked, could leave some banks struggling to meet their obligations and could have implications for the broader economy.
By NEIL GOUGH
Published: December 23, 2013
HONG KONG — A bid by China’s central bank to curb soaring interest rates and relieve pressure on the financial system appeared to have come up short on Monday, as Chinese money market rates shrugged off the measure and continued to approach the highs seen in June.
The central bank, the People’s Bank of China, said late Friday that it had provided more than 300 billion renminbi, or about $50 billion, in short-term funds to selected banks over a three-day period that week.
Rates continued to surge on Monday, however, in China’s money markets — a key source of short-term funding for commercial banks and also for financial institutions engaged in risky, off-balance-sheet shadow lending.
One key rate, the seven-day repurchase rate, rose as high as 10 percent on Monday. That was double the rate of a week earlier and the highest level since June, when the People’s Bank of China allowed rates to surge in an effort to curb speculative investment in the country’s sprawling shadow banking sector.
China’s banks are scrambling for short-term cash to meet month-, quarter- and year-end regulatory requirements. At the same time, demand for cash is high among Chinese companies seeking to meet year-end payments.
These and other factors have combined to push the costs of short-term borrowing in China up drastically, a situation that if left unchecked, could leave some banks struggling to meet their obligations and could have implications for the broader economy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/business/international/china-rates-approach-crisis-levels-despite-central-bank-measures.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1&
Which can only go so far, because at a certain point the moneybags do not have anything to gain from Bitcoin since they are already profit from the existing financial system.
Nothing except freedom. Worthless thing that.
HAHAHA billionaires and freedom.
They want power dude.
Just a silk road repeat, and the panicked overselling is probably going to lead to an accelerated rise later.
No not the same. china is 2nd largest gdp in the world.
I never claimed losing China would have no effect, but the market share is comparable. Also we could have along debate as to whether EU counts as a single trade block or not.
100% Agree. Those people buying into the China hype are missing 95% of the equation.
$600 is going to be great value in 12 months. The rest of the world still hasn't even started yet.
$600 is going to be great value in 12 months. The rest of the world still hasn't even started yet.
Bulls are always wrong on the way down, bears are always wrong on the way up.
I like to think I know when to jump 'sides' depending on who is going to win.
Sure, there are a whole lot of of 'bullish' things lined up for Bitcoin, but I don't care about those, I care about tomorrow, next week, or the week after that.
$600 may be well great value for Bitcoin in 12 months, but may be not so great a price in 12 days?
I don't give a damn what 'positive spin' is being placed on the China thing having already played out and the panic over-selling already being done n dusted, for me, China is not done until it is done.
Just a silk road repeat, and the panicked overselling is probably going to lead to an accelerated rise later.
No not the same. china is 2nd largest gdp in the world.
So what? China earns only 4USD for manufacturing 1 iPhone. They could be easily replaced by other southern / southeast Asia countries
You said "only" and then they could easily be replaced... does not compute.
Also this is way different than silk road. Silk road put bitcoin in the headlines. This is actual prohibition to a large part of the in flow of money.
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