My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position? Like if I bought BTC today for $450. How do I hedge against a drop to $400?
Sell a risk-reversal OTC.
Thanks for the reply. Seems too much trouble
Topic: China or No China, Here's My Prediction for the Long-Term... (Read 3121 times)
Sell a risk-reversal OTC.
Thanks for the reply. Seems too much trouble
My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position? Like if I bought BTC today for $450. How do I hedge against a drop to $400?
Sell a risk-reversal OTC.
OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.
How do you hedge BTC? There's no options market on it
The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.
I know what hedging means. But options are the easiest tool for hedging.
My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position? Like if I bought BTC today for $450. How do I hedge against a drop to $400?
You can short on Bitfinex.
OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.
How do you hedge BTC? There's no options market on it
The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.
I know what hedging means. But options are the easiest tool for hedging.
My question remains how do you hedge a BTC position? Like if I bought BTC today for $450. How do I hedge against a drop to $400?
OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.
How do you hedge BTC? There's no options market on it
The existence of an options market within a particular asset is not what hedging as a investment principle means.
BTC is the hedge.
There are various derivative markets. MPEX does options. 796.com does futures, possibly with options. Various swaps dealers offer BTC swaps.
There are various derivative markets. MPEX does options. 796.com does futures, possibly with options. Various swaps dealers offer BTC swaps.
OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.
How do you hedge BTC? There's no options market on it
OP does not comprehend the concept of "hedging" and basically invented his own fairy tale caricature of what he believes an institutional investor to be in order to improvise some FUD, end of story.
you know what "land grabbing" term means right? so it's simple.. bitcoin doesn't need institutional investors who don't have balls big enough to withstand volatility and enjoy fruits of labor later on.. they have shareholders, private hands to answer to so it's natural they like to play safe....there are turtle stocks that pay dividends for that... anyway these investors can wait all they want until bitcoin goes through this mess to become mature, stable and widely accepted. But by then just like them there'll be other investors flocking in sending value of bitcoin even higher and then the investors who waited on sidelines would realize how much opportunity they've lost to buy in when this disruptive technology was still cheap back then... most of these old fashioned financial investors will be left when other smart investors are getting in now to reap the long term benefits of bitcoin... in layman's terms imagine a city in a remote area (no one thought las vegas would become a tourist spot right) that is about to be developed so that city is having sales now land is being sold at rock bottom prices so you buy yourself a nice spot there to build a restaurant to serve that huge crowd later on... see the numbers in your head? especially if that spot cost you next to nothing...
so based on your thinking you seem to have little or no imagination in terms of how far bitcoin is poised to go...
let me give you another example... think of bitcoin as tcp/ip in 80s... now look at the ecosystem built around it...
there's just so much room left for bitcoin to be used other than just cryptocurrency, without a shadow of doubt i believe once smart cookies from financial houses realize how they can utilize bitcoin's rock solid infrastructure to save costs, increase productivity and come up with numerous financial tools there'll be a huge paradigm shift... think of contracts, inheritance with 0 lawyer fees and etc... you follow me so far? and if you think bitcoin will never hit 100k let me give you a shocker... how sure are you USD won't lose its petrodollar status and drag the rest of the world with it for currency reset? we're already seeing this with Ukraine game right? you can also see how fed tapering is affecting southeast asian countries that were pumped due to all that binge printing by fed right? look at MYR, IDR and etc... the current fiat system itself is one big fucking ponzi scheme.... in the end the only currencies that will survive are of those countries who will have vast natural resources to back them up and 0 debt... and here's the best part by the time when USD suffers its demise and throw everyone into hyperinflation, bitcoin will just sit on top of all these and skyrocket in its value as a superhighway for forex, SWIFT wires, small micropayment system and etc..
so based on your thinking you seem to have little or no imagination in terms of how far bitcoin is poised to go...
let me give you another example... think of bitcoin as tcp/ip in 80s... now look at the ecosystem built around it...
there's just so much room left for bitcoin to be used other than just cryptocurrency, without a shadow of doubt i believe once smart cookies from financial houses realize how they can utilize bitcoin's rock solid infrastructure to save costs, increase productivity and come up with numerous financial tools there'll be a huge paradigm shift... think of contracts, inheritance with 0 lawyer fees and etc... you follow me so far? and if you think bitcoin will never hit 100k let me give you a shocker... how sure are you USD won't lose its petrodollar status and drag the rest of the world with it for currency reset? we're already seeing this with Ukraine game right? you can also see how fed tapering is affecting southeast asian countries that were pumped due to all that binge printing by fed right? look at MYR, IDR and etc... the current fiat system itself is one big fucking ponzi scheme.... in the end the only currencies that will survive are of those countries who will have vast natural resources to back them up and 0 debt... and here's the best part by the time when USD suffers its demise and throw everyone into hyperinflation, bitcoin will just sit on top of all these and skyrocket in its value as a superhighway for forex, SWIFT wires, small micropayment system and etc..
I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
Bitcoin got to a point where its market cap is billions and governments are paying attention around the world on the back of an infrastructure almost entirely run by children and scum and its user experience was like corrupted linux on pirated tranquilisers.
You're losing hope just as a tidal wave of reputable businesses, top notch brains and usable technologies are about to start pouring in? It's been sub amateur hour so far. The foot hasn't even reached the clutch to drop it yet.
I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
If they even acknowledge a ban on it, won't people want to use it more in those areas? Eventually some type of virtual currency might make it to those countries and some people would go into bitcoin?
I used to be bullish, until very recently. MtGOX imploding and China banning changed my mind completely. If the original and the biggest btc exchange can fail, who else can you put your trust? I didn't put any money or btc into MtGOX myself but I know others who have. If China and India can ban bitcoins, thus removing half of the world's population from bitcoins, where and how could "To Da Moon" adoption and growth come from? The Western government can just as easily ban bitcoins and/or regulate it death. The US IRS announcement is an opening salvo.
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
The last bubble, and it WAS a bubble, in the late 2013, came solely from the China buying frenzy. With China and India effectively out of the game, there's no more fuel left for the btc rocket. The last few months, you can feel the oxygen getting sucked out of the rocket. Bitcoin is running on fumes, just look at the exchange's volume over the past few months. Nobody wants to buy. Not at $600, not at $500. I am not sure if $400-450 is attractive price. There seems to be a support at the level currently, but how long will it stand?
We need a new and trustable exchange in the US. I understand that NYC has started accepting applications for bitcoin exchanges; however, it will take months, if not years before new exchanges start working. We need new crop of buyers, in the scale of Chinese, but there's none to be found. Europeans and Americans are still trying to recover from the "Great Recession." India and Russia is out. Who's going to replace the Chinese buyers?
Get over it. BTC price will never go up to $10000 or $5000. Not even $2000. Here's why.
Institutional Investers are not coming. They are risk-averse as a group. They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio. They prize stability most of all. Bitcoin is a bit too volatile for their taste. They are not going to put their money in something that loses 60% of its value overnight.
Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.
Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.
Bitcoin will continue its meandering ways like this forever or until its demise. There is no S-Curve. There is no magic ride to Million dollar trend line. This is it, folks.
Institutional Investers are not coming. They are risk-averse as a group. They do not like volatility in their invesstment portfolio. They prize stability most of all. Bitcoin is a bit too volatile for their taste. They are not going to put their money in something that loses 60% of its value overnight.
Too many people bought in during the China-induced bubble at the end of last year. They have seen the value of their bitcoins plummet. Some people have lost their life savings. They will cash out if BTC goes up to $1000 level, if they have not cashed out yet. After cashing out, they will never come back. Once bitten, twice shy.
Bitcoin has failed as a currency. It is a store of value, a commodity like gold. How many people would like to use gold strictly as currency? After 4 and a half years, Satoshi Nakamoto's vision has been turned upside down; The BTC experiment is a failure. Without a strong government support, you can't have a secure, reliably and stable currency.
Bitcoin will continue its meandering ways like this forever or until its demise. There is no S-Curve. There is no magic ride to Million dollar trend line. This is it, folks.
Bitcoin is so superior to money in the bank only an idiot can't see this.
Wait, weren't you the guy that said: "BTC will rise to $2000 by end of March 2014." 
?
?Yes. "If I post this maybe the opposite will happen" is the whole point of making the thread. People need to lighten up.
Oh no! Bitcoin has failed!
Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.
While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...
As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.
Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.
While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...
As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.
Dude. This. Except for the s-curve bit, which seems likely but I haven't figured for certain yet.
Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?
Please explain what I've missed
Check it out here -> http://www.youtube.com/user/coinsummit
Many things from Marc Andreesen making fun of old rich white guys (spoiler alert)
trough Chamath Palihapitiya admitting he has discussed it with Zuckerberg
to a large group of quality investors from Ribbit/Lightspeed/Andreesen Horowitz and the state of bitcoin analysis by CoinDesk where they mention 162mln VC funding so far, 75mil of which since the start of 2014.
Makes some of the pple in this thread look like emotional bag holders instead of reasonable men.
Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?
Please explain what I've missed
Did you guys even watch the CoinSummit?
Question to all the longterm bears, why are you here? If you're down on BTC longterm then sell and go on your merry way. Why do you feel the need to create FUD unless you're trying to buy at a lower price?
Maybe you hit the nail on the head right there... trying to drive down price so they can get more coins before the next rally.
Oh no! Bitcoin has failed!
Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.
While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...
As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.
Tell that to anyone who has got hit by credit card fraud. Tell that to the people who lost their savings in the bail-in in Cyprus. Tell that to the Argentines whose national currency has devalued 50% in the last 4 years. Tell that to the Phillipino and African migrants whose family's whole income back home is $500 a month, reduced by 8% by western union fees and bad exchange rate. Tell that to the business owners who went out of business because of a 1% difference in margin- while their margin was changed by 2% because of Visa and Mastercard's fraud budget. Tell it to the gold bugs. Tell it to the people making their living on silk road and the dozens of silk road spinoffs. Tell it to the Iranians who are reaching markets with their products they never could before. Tell it to the people who realize that issuing a people's currency is the best way to control a people.
While I think everyone is welcome in the forum, just put your money where your mouth is and sell your coins to someone who has a slight understanding of human nature and the global economy. Oh, you probably don't have any coins to sell do you? You're probably writing this out of the hope that bitcoin will fail to reduce the pain you feel at not having participated in the movement a couple years ago...
As I understand it posts like these are a part of every capitulation. We just need to see prices stabilize to the point where all of the people on the sidelines decide they don't want to miss the boat again. There are hordes of people waiting to see if it's going to crash, and as understanding of bitcoin spreads along with smartphones, I think we will see in retrospect that we are not even in the steep part of the "s" curve yet.
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