Topic: China real estate crisis: Buy a house and get a gold bar! No Bitcoin unf! - page 2. (Read 628 times)

its to keep the market comps at a certain rate

if they dropped an average house price from $200 to $160. thats a 20% down market. meaning it hits the stats about CPI and inflation rate and other measures. they cant and dont want to cause a market crash based on trying to sell a bunch of empty homes which then impact on the market of already filled/occupied homes
so by giving them a gold bar from government as a "back hander" gratuity.. the sale of a $200k house is market off at the market rate of $200k not $160k.. the banks get paid $40k from the government to buy the gold from banks. and later the bank collects $60k of interest from the home buyer so the banks also profit $100k in the deal

its the same at the other end. why do banks prefer people to mortgage a house instead of pay in full (as with credit lines with other produce) its because if they can sell a product at $200 but it actually cost the person $260 years later.. the person then wont sell it for less than $260 years later to break even.. thus cause the markets to show "growth" by having the markets move forward instead of backward
(30% over 15 years is a 2% inflation rate on houses)

I don't know the details of that but if you look at the Chinese government which is not friendly to bitcoin, they will definitely do everything they can to limit it. Why would a program like this come up because they are very concerned and the lack of checking details that the voucher has changed hands is a form of cover up for the public that they are intentionally creating. If I'm not mistaken!!

Always be prepared and I believe this is a scenario because if you look at China they are always very against anything that could potentially break the rules. Because if the gold bars have physical we might be able to detect it and that's not an ideal scenario for them to do.

I wonder why there needs to be a gold bar giveaway. Why can't they just give 20% discount? That's the equivalent of the value of the gold given away. If sales are poor, does the gold bar entice buyers? I don't think so. They can buy that gold anyway if they need it. If they don't, then they're forced to buy gold, which they don't need at all, by buying a house. A cheaper price attracts buyers more.

China has an oversupply of residential buildings that they are left with no choice but to destroy some of them, many unfinished. Ghost towns are built within high-rise compounds. Real estate companies went bankrupt. The prices of houses remain high though.

I'd rather live in a tiny house built on a small plot of land than in a poorly-built high-rise structure using substandard materials. Unfortunately, people in China can't privately own pieces of land that they're forced to live in buildings that may collapse anytime.

the whole real estate market/mortgage deals is a shambles of creativity

person sees a house price of say $200k.. but actually pays $260k(mortgage interest) effectively at the end
so the price is false

then the house is only actually worth $160k because the purchase is realistically for a $160k house+ $40k gold bar
so the price is false

a $160k house costing the person $260k but they get a gold bar from government whilst the banks pocket $100k profit

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in the UK however the government dont give the house buyer a gold bar. instead they pay the home builders the equivalent of more then $40k gold bar to build "first time buyers" homes on the cheap, where by usually developers build smaller homes on smaller plots of land using cheaper material but price it at a rate equivalent to a normal homes superior materials. thus the developers pocket the profits

I take it this is about the not-so-successful attempt to save Evergrande, which is dragging China's entire economy down ?
An interesting but pointless attempt ! China's economy has become a "bubble", and there is no way out of the situation except for tough measures to reorganize the economy. And moreover, confrontation with the West, at the same moment, makes the situation even worse. It's like treating a systemic disease and at the same time going on a bender, taking heavy drugs, and doing other extremely unhelpful actions.

If they would allow this their whole real estate market would come crashing down and with it the entire fake GDP, and everyone knows that if they miss and can't fake anymore their 50-year-long plan of continuous growth they are all sent to the execution platoon!
They are in so much trouble they can't afford to budge on inch

Just look at the chronology, and this comes from SCMP, which is basically the CCP paper for English propaganda:

China Evergrande downplays impact of staff arrests in Shenzhen, as property management unit warns on debts
one week later
China Evergrande says founder Hui Ka-yan under ‘mandatory measures’ for alleged crimes, amid stock trading halt in Hong Kong

they have companies not able to pay debts, prices falling down making those debts unpayable, and on top of that:

Even 1.4 billion people can’t fill all of China’s vacant homes, ex-official admits

This is a bit like those companies that failed around here.
They poured a ton of cash they got in debt for into coins, the market crash come, their stock went to pennies, the debt skyrocketed, they had to sell the shitcoins basically sealing their fate, and still had no money to pay the debt thus triggering the bankruptcy of those that lent them money also.

And we have some still arguing about debts ratios of 100% when Chinese debts are at 300% since they have province debts, local government debts, central government debt, and country debt, they even stopped realizing that data after Covid since it went completely off track:
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3018991/chinas-total-debt-rises-over-300-cent-gdp-beijing-loosens.



Imagine you have built 1 billion houses that nobody lives in and which are on almost every balance sheet at a certain value and this gets sliced in half, it would turn into a flood of bankruptcies since thousands of companies will see their assets turn worthless.
Think LUNA! 


Even without allowing the companies are fall one after the other, Evergrande, Fantasia, and Country Garden, what do you think will happen if they set the price free? 

Indeed, Gold has a special place in human culture and finance for thousands of years, and its role extends beyond store of value, it is also used for manufacturing  electrical components and parts, particularly in electronic industry. Beyond its industrial utility. traditionally, it is considered symbol of wealth, a safe heaven and jewelry.

It is not surprising , if some Chinese real estate companies are using Gold as means to reward their customers, an elegant approach to marketing and promotion.

It is funny how people are attacking China .... when the US economy are bending the knee before them. China are lately buying the most Gold in the world.... where  ==> "The United States boasts both the world's biggest national debt in terms of dollar amount and its largest economy, which resolves to a debt-to GDP ratio of approximately 128.13%. The United States' government's spending exceeds its income most years, and the US has not had a budget surplus since 2001" Source : https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-by-national-debt

I am not a "Goldbug" and it has been like that for many years. Try to get an independent audit on the Gold that are stored in Fort Knox for example and you will be amazed that it has not been physically inspected for many years. (It can be Gold plated Tungsten or Lead bars for what we know) 

In any way.... countries like China and Russia and India are buying Gold like crazy... while other countries are collecting debt. 

I think we are surrounded by ambiguous investors who can’t differentiate between decentralised asset and centralised asset. That’s making unforeseen roadblocks in accepting Bitcoin throughout the system. The only thing that’s making them invest into asset like gold is its physical presence and their attachment with it as they can hold it. Now they don’t think about the issues that you have very well portrayed in OP, about its fairness, reality checks etc. Why would they? They see the yellow shiny bar thats enough for them to work with. However in case of Bitcoin everything is opposite and there is no way to verify things even physically. Sadly no yellow shiny bar there. China is master of crooked science, let’s not get into it. Lolz

What a load of bollocks. The result of not letting prices regulate themselves by pure supply and demand and trying to manipulate them for political expediency. This rubbish has been known not to work since Diocletian's edict of maximum prices, which only served to stop people from producing goods or selling them on the black market, bypassing the edict. With this we have something similar. I don't let you lower the price but in order to sell the house you give away something that is 20% of the value, which, as much as the Chinese government doesn't want it, is a de facto 20% price reduction.

It doesn't really make sense to limit the price reduction, they are finding ways. Instead of spending 100k on a house and getting 20k back, you spend 80k and it would be the same thing, but because it is not allowed to drop the prices they are doing something like this. It still doesn't make sense though, because it is not the way it should be.

Let the market be whatever it is until people buy the houses, if the construction company has to make a loss, they will have to make a loss. The overestimation on how much people would pay for houses was the real trouble, China kept on building, not realizing that all the people who can buy a house, already bought it, and they do not need more new places to be built.

You bring up an interesting point regarding the sale of items like Bitcoin voucher codes or even added bonuses like Pokémon cards (at collector pricing) in transactions. It can indeed be challenging to assess the value and authenticity of such items in a market that may lack scrutiny. Your concern about potential tax evasion is valid, as these additional items could potentially be used to manipulate the perceived value of a transaction.

In essence, it's essential to have transparency and accountability in any market to maintain trust and ensure fair transactions. Whether this situation could be a potential usage scenario or not depends on how it's regulated and monitored within the market. Your caution is well-founded, and it highlights the need for vigilance in any trading environment.

I see that China, with its cash reserves, is able to intervene and solve the crisis of real estate developers, but I see the slowdown that is happening as an attempt to "pinch the ears" of these companies and make them respond to government requests in the future, but who is stupid who presented the idea of offering a kilogram of gold bars to entice people to buy their apartments? The idea is fundamentally wrong and can be understood if it was an investment fund that buys apartments and gives you an additional return in gold or dollars.

Such ideas make the buyer refrain from buying, as he believes that he will get the apartment at a cheaper price in the future, so why buy it now?
Bitcoin will not be an alternative at the present time, but for the user who knows cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin is much better than online gold buying and selling services.

Yeah I read an article about the Evergrande situation and it’s bad. Basically they didn’t have issues selling real estate in the large cities but the issues came when they started building these towers in smaller cities and nobody wanted to buy these apartments. And they needed the money from sales to pay off debts.

It’s crazy that the government allowed this to happen. They can try and give you gold but eventually they are going to be giving people 50% worth of gold for the value of the entire apartment because prices will start to tank that hard. Don’t think there is an easy way out of this.

The government, especially as tyrannical as the Chinese one, will find a way how to bring Biticoin activity to the minimum if millions of people will start using it in a way they don't like. They will tighten the financial monitoring of bank accounts and make banks investigate the source of incoming large transactions of their clients. So selling Bitcoin online would become quite hard. And they can go after physical bitcoin to cash exchangers by raiding them with police. It won't stop 100% of Bitcoin use, by likely over 90% of people would reconsider using Bitcoin.

I wouldn't buy a property in china even if they were offering me gold bars with it.
First of all, bars filled with tungsten are a common thing nowadays as it fools the scales (similar density).


Here's a fake gold coin from reddit.

Then there's a problem of quality. Chinese buildings are nowadays made cheap. In the link you can see some pictures of Chinese buildings made of foam.
http://hongwrong.com/foamed-plastic-found-as-construction-material-for-new-housing-in-central-china/

And here's a video explaining the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=hBwcw7pmsBE



True, India is one of those countries. They traditionally give gold to the bride and groom at weddings. There will always be a market for gold there, which also makes gold easy to sell in these countries. IMuslims also have a knack for gold as far as I know.

In the market, such deceptions do not work, because the chena in the market is regulated by supply and demand. Banks and the government can support developers and offer very favorable conditions for the purchase of new housing, but this will depreciate the market for subsequent sales, because it will always be more profitable to buy a new apartment.

Is that the reason behind China's increased gold import? Haha, kidding. By the way I wonder, are they going to limit developers to build new houses? Because lowering of supply will increase the price and they won't have to make a shit show like this one.
Overall, housing prices are artificially inflated worldwide because it's an easy money to buy/sell and/or rent. People are waiting months to sell their apartment or to rent commercial properties and still don't decrease prices, this really makes me to think that real estate is artificially kept inflated. But I don't understand why does China want to keep it inflated? What's wrong with decreasing housing prices if there is not a big demand? I don't understand what's the point of banning developers from cutting prices?

And to be honest, I don't completely understand what's the point of your post @stompix? Why don't they offer Bitcoin over gold? Or it would be better if they offered bitcoin over gold? I think this is done on purpose, they could offer a sportscar or something like that instead of gold that will 80% be fake. A lot of people on Reddit say that Chinese real estate developers are very shady. China remains a mystery for me, I don't really understand what's the life there. I have heard good from some people who have been there but online everyone talks about how terrible and full of scammers it is.

Chaos is perfect when you want to hide the really dangerous stuff, it's better to leave a few things in the open to make people believe that's the worst thing rather than trying to get everything in order and failing majestically.
 

Everyone does so, if you're going to sell a gold in most asian golds shops prepare to be asked to have it cut in a few random points, nobody is buying gold by the weight volume ratio anymore, with the advance in technology you can right now cast the fake gold bars in less than 0.1% deviance which would fool almost everyone.


It's actually the same thing, nobody is expecting you to keep that bar or the car, you can resell them the next day to get your money back, it's not a nonrefundable gift or something like that. Besides, the value of the car is based on how much do they sell that apartment and how much are they forced to declare as value
- the minimum fixed price is 500 000 and the real market value is 400 000 they will probably gift you a mercedes
- the minimum fixed price is 100 000 and the real value is 90 000 then you are going to get a used vw golf!


It's not only China, there are numerous countries in which gold is seen differently, both as a showcase of wealth, some safe way to keep your money hidden, a hedge against inflation, in some cases the distrust is so big they will embrace gold just because of that. Unfortunately and this is the second thing in this topic, Bitcoin seems quite unable to replicate this trust gold has on a larger scale, more are interested in the gains in value than in conserving that value over long periods of time or even security. But I guess you can't compete with things that have been around for thousands of years.

What is China's obsession with gold bars? About thirteen years ago some Chinese were swapping physical notes for gold bars, the three years ago, there was a scandal where a Chinese company used fake gold bars to obtain loan. Then 3 days ago China invest in almost 8k tons of gold.

Well, as for real estate in China, they are struggling to keep their heads up and this is the reason for the gold. Well it is a good one compared to offering a car. But then what is the value of the gold?