Topic: Choice words of wisdom for the forum investors from our esteemed leader. (Read 5548 times)

You're new. That alone makes you say stupid things, and puts you in a position to be unable to realize why exactly and to what degree. I won't engage you on the merits for this reason.

IF you're still around in six months or a year we may revisit this point then. Meanwhile your instruction will be probably best served by copying this comment in your notebook ten times.

He-he I do say do your own research but no one pointed it out whistle
http://textray.com/asicminer_value.txt Alternate need to stalk it for a few days to see it move perhaps ha-ha probably not
For context
BTCT.co last  * total ASICMINER shares * MtGox USD last =
You know what I can one up that heres a screenshot
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246253.0;topicseen
And a news feed
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/btcguild-starts-selling-asicminer-usbs-sells-out-in-40-minutes/

That tracking number is broken and hasn't moved in weeks by the way (since BTC started crashing). It was at 150 mil last dividend. It's still hovering around 130 mil at the moment.

3.4 * 400000 * 96 = $130,000,000

With all possible respect, your boss is an idiot. A lot of people are investing in companies like ASICMiner. I hopefully do not need to explain that serious, long-term investment in stocks has been proven over hundreds of years to have a +EV (unlike gambling, which has a -EV).

Companies like ASICMiner represent significant real-world value; and like "real-world" companies, Bitcoin companies can experience growth, which (in the long term) will translate to a higher share price. Certainly many people will lose money as shares change hands; but, on average, companies tend to be very good at making profit. Profit is +EV.

You accept significant counter-party risk with the purchase of a Bitcoin company like ASICMiner, since there are no well-established laws and exchanges, but the market prices that risk into the share price.

Your boss is confusing alpha with beta. I cannot think of a more rookie mistake.

I sometimes wonder how long it will take until people will simple oust M-POOPER and his/her/their overlord from the forums. Would be about the time by now.

Wonders if MPOE-PR will demand apology and carrot in the pooper on dtng...

I will concede that it may be even be less than 500 people
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtqphFCP56ordGVCakJxSU90MlB4MlBkZENya25pS2c#gid=4
The shareholders sheet is the truth that said far more than the $50,000 dollars you mention moves between these individuals daily between all the exchanges.

To question your choice of 50,000 dollars only takes a casual observation of the volume between btct havelock and bitfunder on a daily basis. To see reality one must look beyond the web that you perceive and must observe the unbiased truth to see the real number. Or does one forget ones owns words.

A market is made up of its individuals and beliefs in the market as a whole if such a market is truly controlled by idiots then the price will be justified by the group thinking minds and the weak hands will be shaken consistently away from their equity into the richer hands. By this truth to say the value is not accurate would be incorrect as weak hands will always buckle from the pressure of the strong.

If we compare the track record of other companies in bitcoin whether it is SatoshiDice or any other bitcoin company we see that nontransparent announcement of finances causes investor doubt and uncertainty. Does the situation pertaining to Evoorhees not apply to any financial instrument or methodology of your choosing regardless of the exchanges choice, the burden of the rich is the obligation to the poor the noblesse oblige.

Pertaining to just-dice, the situation makes it that so that the investors take the risk and are aware of it always making it effective in shaking weak hands while not necessarily needing to.

What other people should do is irrelevant as it is just the observation of the naive who follow the logic of these weaker minds, choosing the path of most favor will always result in the rich. For certain the smarter hands would see the signs before the wave approaches or recedes and choose to retreat before the waters come.

Let us say MP went into the tide and decided to swim naked when suddenly the tide goes out we see fish flopping does it mean that other people will watch what one naked person is doing in the water, no it would not serve their best interest to sense when the danger approaches for a tsunami approaches instead of staying on the shoreline to satisfy their curiosity or to acquire some free fish that were left in the water after the water receded. One would be mindful to make a retreat. Else be hit by the truth like a tsunami over land.

Only those with naive minds would dare to venture into a receding tide after an earthquake one could argue that such a stubborn mind would not be able to see the truth of the environment surrounding them as their hubris mentalities cloud the vision they choose to observe.
Changes to the environment itself must be observed just as a frog in a slowly boiling pot will not jump if the kettle slowly boils them to death.

For one who has such a weak mentally to need to resort to words once a carrot is thrown out only displays such idiocity as they say only the stubborn will not see the obvious.
Can one really say that a company with only 6 million dollars in 30 day trade has any right to ignore the will of 500 investors in a 100 million dollar company and the management to bring one there in such a short period of time.
Even an idiot could see the difference between reality and fantasy as you yourself said

The text I write is here for a reason. That reason is that you are stupid and wrong. What you must do is give up everything you think and replace it with what I write. Have fun nao.

The problem with your "122 mn nice tracking number" is that it's not based on the opinions of ten guys with twelve million each, or for that matter on the opinions of ten million guys with twelve dollars each. It's based on the opinion of about five hundred people with about fifty thousand dollars between the lot of them. What are they opining on? Why, what other people should do!

This never works in practice, or as the story goes sooner or later the tide goes out and we find out who was swimming naked. So far the tide went out on MP twice and he wasn't swimming naked on either occasion. In all the other countless events where the tide went out the forum (in its entirety) was exposed swimming naked. You may of course bank your fraction of the fiddy k on the theory that this time is truly very very different. It won't be, which is why this thread is here: you'd be better off taking your share of the fiddy k and, to quote,


The text I write is here for a reason. That reason is that you are stupid and wrong. What you must do is give up everything you think and replace it with what I write. Have fun nao.

Sock-muppet MPOE-PRBS, you have been sniffing your masers butt way too long. In reality, your leader is only leading you and no one else. Unless, you are his alter ego and he/you are getting high on your own fumes. This happens to pathological narcissists and egomaniacs like you (and your master).
Yes, there are few random retards, who are confused buy Popescus bull shit and still hope he knows wtf is talking about. Only few and you, confused PR scank, are one of them. Rest of the people are just laughing - not with you MP, but at you.  

What ever the case, please take your meds and get some rest. You have embarrassed yourself and your delusional master way too many times in this forum and Popescus blog, where he blathers on about stuff without really understanding the topics. It was amusing to read at the beginning. Now it's getting stale and old.
What do you expect from smartest Romanina... or is he the smartest dipshit on this planet? Nothing more!

Happy yapping MPOE-PRBS

PS! Actually, the best course of action is to ignore MPOE-PRBS (who is MP's sock-puppet) and let this thread die.

She will try to provoke ya'll with insults or flat out utter stupidity. Be strong, ignore her/him! 

I'll defend ASIC on this one since it gets brought up a lot by the non-researched bears on the AM threads.

If a real competitor appears this might get interesting but besides Klondike heck on a long toss AMC nothing yet.
ASICMINER
Avalon - Klondike pending
BFL - Troll
KnC - Observe
BitFury - Observe
Bitgarden - Observe
AMC - Declared announcement today Q4 2013 and Q1 2014
Still
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2599659

A company with a valuation of 100 million dollars is by no means a throw-out

Nice tracking number  

3.5 = Overpriced perhaps only time will tell
I've been hearing people claim this since 0.75

It does control a fair chunk of the network and hashrate is growing + sales of units can't really call BS on that truth
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkPdXsQFT-vIdHRVUjQ5Ql9BQWR6OENLMkhyUktUblE#gid=9

They do a lot better than BFL by all standards
http://bfl.ptz.ro/ (This list is beautiful from a failure view)
Nothing is always cheaper than something

Profit from placing an order a year ago with BFL: BTC0
Profit from purchasing AM share at IPO: 3.4+.32 = BTC3.72 (ignores huge increase in BTC value)

0 < 3.72

I'll be blunt the price will drop but not to a worthless level the competitors might start moving soon the volumes are the question.
Either way I have seen worse  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eF6FSdur8k



This is a useless standard for now, because no honest company will return 100% of its capital to investors within the first few years of operation, and Bitcoin is a few years old. Once we do a few more block halvings this will become more and more of a valid way to select blue chips, perhaps.

I'll call this one out however ASIC IPO buyers got their IPO investment back a long while ago plus share price appreciation if you use 0.75 as the basis not yet but from 0.1 if they sold from 0.75 the ratio would be 4:1 + Divs Currently

To necro
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/personal-responsiblity-and-the-ponzi-scam-106391

Should we be more worried about the exchange rate
"Giving over half a million bitcoins to a random idiot has the unpleasant effect of creating a high powered idiot. He can now wreak havoc on the exchange rate, which increases volatility and on the long term hurts everyone involved in bitcoins, because volatility is, much like inflation, an indirect tax on users."

But some investors would be safer using just dice and pressing the investor button  

That said using an hourglass to look backwards is cheating especially when GLBSE caused that chaos
Akin to saying accountants look backwards while investors look ahead it may be true but the past leads to the present the future is unknown but that's Finance of one form or another
That said the hourglass has shifted and showed AM to be the gem from the turd collection

Additional
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2237162

No. You are wrong. The fund is not denominated in BTC. It is denominated in 1/10th oz silver. Investors have the exact same amount of silver they had when they bought in, plus (more than) it's value in BTC returned to them.




No, the success of TU.SILVER is not tied to the price of silver at a point in time -- that is ridiculous. To our investors silver is money. Our investors have achieved a greater than 100% gain in the amount of silver they hold should they reinvest their profits today. It's sad that you refuse to see that -- your cognitive dissonance is very great. I'll stop at that -- while you appear in the above to have an extremely narrow (perhaps even sheltered) view of the markets, we all know it isn't true.

I didn't address this part.  Firstly at no stage have I claimed the current ASICMINER price is justified - whether it is or not depends largely on what your expectations are.  I'd be fascinated to see you compare, say, ASICMINER to S.MPOE based on current and projected future P/E or similar - but I fear somewher in there'd be a "*10 because it's listed on MPEx".

On what I do you're partly correct - though trading in and out of positions isn't really my thing in the way it applies to typical day-trading.  I'm not at all interested in trying to find short-term movements of a few percent or precisely time when a bubble bursts etc - as those things are hard to do and not actually all that profitable.

Leeching is a harsh term - but not entirely inaccurate.  What I try to do is redistribute wealth from the stupid (most other people) to the less stupid (myself) - I'm very explictly profiting from other users of the market rather than from the securities themselves.  Which is, as it happens, the business model of all the companies listed on MPEx.

S.DICE- Redistribution from the stupid (those who play -EV games) to the less stupid (those who back the house).
S.BBET - Redistribution from the stupid (those who are wrong) to the less stupid (those who are right).
S.MPOE - Options trading is rather obviously redistribution.  Exchange fees profit from the users not the securities.
S.MG - Looks like the whole basis of the game economy is redistribution of wealth.

Yet somehow when ALL you do is redistribute wealth (not create it) that's finance - but when I do it it's not.  If the argument is that you create wealth by giving returns to your investors then I do that too. 

Finance = resource allocation?  That's precisely what I do - (re)allocate resources from others to myself and my investors.  Which, as it happens, is precisely what you do.  That speculation happens to be (one of) my area of business is irrelevant.  Much of what I do is very clearly finance - for example the management of currency exposure by using bonds issued in a different currency to offet assets against liabilites removing exchange-rate exposure (and, at the same time, leveraging capital).

Or look at DMS - that's pretty much pure finance employed to create a set of derivatives that allow both speculators AND investors to trade both sides of a pseudo-PMB.

Speculation and finance aren't mutually exclusive any more than gambling and finance are exclusive.

Holding more money doesn't make you right - it just makes it worse if you get it wrong.  Bigger isn't necessarily better.

Ignoring all the pompous verbiage here's what you explicitly got wrong:

"It would seem to me that all those users who haven't managed to sell out on the bubble started last month are SOL by now."

Hardly SOL if they can sell out now for 3.4 rather than the much lower price back then.  You then repeated the same claim (in essence that the price could only fall)

"AM sort-of brokenly IPOd at .65, under my previous lower bound estimate (*) and has about 0 chances of ever significantly appreciating in price to compensate. "

Is an increase from .65 to 3.5 significant appreciation or not?

Youre the one who said PRICE there - so no need to get all snotty when I start discussing price rather than value.

Your comments on value were higher up - where you gave .07 as the maximum value.  A laughable guess given its dividend that week was about half that.


I see maths isn't your strong suit - though apparently comparing apples to oranges is.

There's somewhere around 160k ASICMINER shares held by the public.  You already previously determined the dividend paid per share to be ~.29 per share.  Mental arithmetic (for those of use able to do it) suggests multiplying the 2 numbers gives a figure rather nearer to 50k than 15-20k.

And that's just what was paid to public-owned shares.  Yet you appear to be comparing it to what was paid to ALL S.DICE shares (80k).

For that comparison you'd need to look at the whole 400k shares receiving dividends - and would get a number in excess of 100k BTC paid.

On total profits distributed ASICMINER is ahead by over 25%.
On profits returned to shares held by the public it's a country mile ahead.


Which is to say not a fact at all.

That's actually not a form of success, believe it or not.

But that aside, sure, I was entirely wrong of the avenue through which it's doomed. If you think it being bid up irrationally is a success...well what can I say. You're fundamentally and by your own admission a leecher, what you try to do is trade in and out of positions for some sort of daily profit. My point of view is aligned with a much larger thing than that, with much longer term goals. The relative discrepancy of balances held perhaps excuses your holding your particular point of view, but it does not excuse trying to pass it for some sort of universal, which it is not.

I have no problem with you (or anyone else for that matter) making however much daytrading whatever they please, but please try and understand that finance != speculation. Finance = resource allocation.

Consider the material in the quote carefully, for it seeming like "comedy" to you describes a problem in your thought process rather than a problem in the quote. The what ifs espoused there are just as valid today as they were at the time, irrespective of how you think they played out. The fact that S.DICE has actually paid out something like 80k BTC in dividends in its lifetime (as compared to roughly 15-20k or so paid by AM in its lifetime?) is still as much a fact today as it was then. Again: it's fine to feel like getting drunk now and again. It's not fine to present drunkenness as sobriety on those grounds.

That's what you claimed when you were trying to woo ASICMINER to list on MPEx.

AFTER that, when it became plain ASICMINER wasn't going to do that you told a rather different story.  The comedy quotes include:


The last sentence shows just how wrong you were - you believed that having failed to list on MPEx it was doomed : when in fact it's risen well above the maximum price you thought it would achieve if it listed on MPEx.

I claimed they're worth .75 to 1.5. That happens to still be correct. It has paid ~0.29 in the past three months, or roughly speaking 20% of what I claimed they were worth at most (1.5). This is what we're discussing.

How does what it's trading at come into it?

The 30% applies where the issuer is constantly selling more - that isn't the case here.  Friedcat has already paid back over 2.5 times ALL the cash he ever received from investors.  Not sure how you managed to get so confused on that rather simple point.  Of the 3.5 BTC shares are changing hands for, only 0.1 BTC has ever gone to friedcat - the other 3.4 has gone to previous owners along the way.  We know he wasn't issuing more (unless he didn't sell the 160k+ in the first place) as the dividends and ownership is trackable via the block-chain and hasn't increased.

Market prices (on pass-throughs remember) have zero relevance to what cash friedcat received in the past.  So how can it be a scam when he received about 16K BTC in total from investors and has already given back over 40K BTC in dividends?  That's probably more in dividends that S.DICE, S.MPOE and S.BBET added together - with only a tiny percentage of what they raised from investors ever taken in.

Do the math for MPOE and ASICMINER side by side - see how much was taken from investors and how much given back (even discounting that MPOE has been running longer).  Then maybe remove your blinkers and look at the market valuations again.

Revisiting this point,


Deprived, the fuck are you on about, seriously? It's not even reached the magical 30% where scams unravel. Get back to me in...about nine months or so I guess, probably more like a year. Whatever it takes to actually accumulate a third of whatsittrading at, 3.5?

Agree but I think most "investors" should put their BTC in a cold wallet then close their Internet for 4-5 years.

Quote better, you might learn something.


The bet clearly states the venue used for market cap evaluations. A delisted S.DICE has a market cap of 0 irrespective of any relisted contrivance.