Ciphertrace Offers Easy AML to Bitcoin ATMs

jseverson

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Quote from: Lauren Smith on June 18, 2019, 06:39:57 PM

I think ATM is not the answer. Surely it is easier to just accept bitcoin as a form of payment? You just need a QR code.

In an ideal world. It's unfortunately the prerogative of merchants though, so us customers would have to adjust somehow.

Quote from: Lauren Smith on June 18, 2019, 06:39:57 PM

When you go to a normal atm you don't bring your ID. You show it once only. It is only ever supposed to be done once and other places can confirm through them, in this way you not tossing your personal info around like it was nothing.

ATMs are pinned to your identity, and there's no way to replicate that in Bitcoin. Either way, I don't think it's too much of a problem. Bitcoin ATMs fill a niche purpose (getting coins in a pinch, buying for curiosity, etc.), and even the average Bitcoin user can go on with their lives with zero issues without ever using one.

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Quote from: darylalban on June 18, 2019, 05:51:10 PM

Quote from: Pursuer on June 18, 2019, 03:40:46 AM

this is such a strange news! it is like saying a company is now trying to remove meat from hamburgers and replace them with empty bread! Cheesy

the whole selling point of ATM machines which is also the reason why their fees are high and rates are not comparable to exchanges and basically any other method of buying/selling bitcoin, is that they are providing a much better privacy to people wanting to buy or sell bitcoin. if you remove that and add AML then they become obsolete the second that rule is applied.
because who would want to use an ATM machine while there are exchanges that you can purchase bitcoin with a much better rate?

Haha that's definitely one way of looking at things but I really don't see how atms were a point of privacy or use case for hiding money in that way. I thought it is more so for anyone to have easy access to "purchasing" it by easy accessibility and ease of use. I might be wrong though.

I think ATM is not the answer. Surely it is easier to just accept bitcoin as a form of payment? You just need a QR code. Why do you need AML when the bank has this info already? When you go to a normal atm you don't bring your ID. You show it once only. It is only ever supposed to be done once and other places can confirm through them, in this way you not tossing your personal info around like it was nothing.

darylalban

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Quote from: Pursuer on June 18, 2019, 03:40:46 AM

this is such a strange news! it is like saying a company is now trying to remove meat from hamburgers and replace them with empty bread! Cheesy

the whole selling point of ATM machines which is also the reason why their fees are high and rates are not comparable to exchanges and basically any other method of buying/selling bitcoin, is that they are providing a much better privacy to people wanting to buy or sell bitcoin. if you remove that and add AML then they become obsolete the second that rule is applied.
because who would want to use an ATM machine while there are exchanges that you can purchase bitcoin with a much better rate?

Haha that's definitely one way of looking at things but I really don't see how atms were a point of privacy or use case for hiding money in that way. I thought it is more so for anyone to have easy access to "purchasing" it by easy accessibility and ease of use. I might be wrong though.

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this is such a strange news! it is like saying a company is now trying to remove meat from hamburgers and replace them with empty bread! Cheesy

the whole selling point of ATM machines which is also the reason why their fees are high and rates are not comparable to exchanges and basically any other method of buying/selling bitcoin, is that they are providing a much better privacy to people wanting to buy or sell bitcoin. if you remove that and add AML then they become obsolete the second that rule is applied.
because who would want to use an ATM machine while there are exchanges that you can purchase bitcoin with a much better rate?

jseverson

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Quote from: jdarren on June 17, 2019, 04:53:50 PM

I guess my next question would be how much could you deposit at once though to make it look like you are laundering money?

In the US, any transaction above $10,000 needs to be reported by law. They could probably still report lower amounts if they find you suspicious, but I find it more likely that they won't pry.

Either way, there are better options for cashing out big amounts. Some Bitcoin ATMs charge percentage fees which wouldn't be an issue elsewhere.

malevolent

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Quote from: jdarren on June 17, 2019, 04:53:50 PM

No matter the atm there needs to be AML compliance in some shape or form. I guess my next question would be how much could you deposit at once though to make it look like you are laundering money?

That depends on your jurisdiction. In some, there are no restrictions, or there is a per transaction limit but otherwise no KYC.

jdarren

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I think these ATMs are a legit way to deposit change and get BTC in return. I am not so sure if I would want to withdraw or transfer money using one of these machines though. No matter the atm there needs to be AML compliance in some shape or form. I guess my next question would be how much could you deposit at once though to make it look like you are laundering money?

malevolent

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Quote from: rdbase on June 14, 2019, 07:00:18 PM

This is a good idea to have because with atms even fiat ones it is easy for those skimmers to defraud them.
There was a story of a bitcoin atm shooting out cash at an alarming rate that they had to have guards standing on each side of it so nobody can take the money falling to the ground.
Could it be a skimmer with a card type device or a hack from a remote location which can cause this to happen?
The more security with 3fa(fingerprinting)/aml or anything else the better. Wink

Here is a better idea, don't accept cards someone can easily steal and monetize

Quote from: dothebeats on June 12, 2019, 05:51:49 PM

Let's just hope that Ciphertrace tech isn't going to be used to oppress people who are legitimately doing their thing with cryptocurrencies.

That's not up to them, they provide the tools to de-anonymize anyone irrespective of the misdeeds they commit.

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Putting cream on shit does not make it edible, so understand that actions like this is very dangerous for people's financial privacy and also their independence from centralized control and authority. It gives centralized authority a tool to follow every transaction you make with Crypto currencies and it also tells them how much of your money is invested into Crypto currencies. Angry

Go back a few years and you would not have seen people celebrating about regulation of Bitcoin, but now it has become the norm, because governments are holding regulation of Bitcoin over people's heads, as a forced requirement to use and hold Bitcoin. Angry

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This is a good idea to have because with atms even fiat ones it is easy for those skimmers to defraud them.
There was a story of a bitcoin atm shooting out cash at an alarming rate that they had to have guards standing on each side of it so nobody can take the money falling to the ground.
Could it be a skimmer with a card type device or a hack from a remote location which can cause this to happen?
The more security with 3fa(fingerprinting)/aml or anything else the better. Wink

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: rmilly on June 14, 2019, 01:36:15 PM

That's such a good point. I never really thought about it like that. Technology in general is continuously getting better and better but I feel that cyber security firms like ciphertrace are pro privacy and crypto just more so against the bad actors that affects lots of people

Eh, they aren't the good guys, some of them are actually the bad guys, like the infamous Hacking Team which was working for dictatorships and helped them find and imprison activists. It's just that their actions might later lead to better security and privacy even if they don't want it to happen, simply because open source software evolves in response to challenges in the wild.

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 14, 2019, 10:51:24 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 13, 2019, 12:21:44 AM

blockchain analysis companies and AML/KYC are not things to celebrate. if bitcoin atms aren't legally compliant, be happy the atm operators are taking the compliance risks so you can retain a bit more freedom. Wink

I like AML/KYC companies not for what their goals, but because they present a very direct challenge to Bitcoin, they are making people more concerned about privacy when they demonstrate the power of chainanalysis, which it turn makes developers and enthusiasts work harder on privacy solutions. It would be much more scary if these tracking technologies were kept hidden and used by police and security services, people would still think that Bitcoin is private and then easily get caught and unjustly sentenced for some bullshit offenses like selling weed.

That's such a good point. I never really thought about it like that. Technology in general is continuously getting better and better but I feel that cyber security firms like ciphertrace are pro privacy and crypto just more so against the bad actors that affects lots of people

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on June 13, 2019, 12:21:44 AM

blockchain analysis companies and AML/KYC are not things to celebrate. if bitcoin atms aren't legally compliant, be happy the atm operators are taking the compliance risks so you can retain a bit more freedom. Wink

I like AML/KYC companies not for what their goals, but because they present a very direct challenge to Bitcoin, they are making people more concerned about privacy when they demonstrate the power of chainanalysis, which it turn makes developers and enthusiasts work harder on privacy solutions. It would be much more scary if these tracking technologies were kept hidden and used by police and security services, people would still think that Bitcoin is private and then easily get caught and unjustly sentenced for some bullshit offenses like selling weed.

Slow death

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as much as I get annoyed with this AML because most of the time sites where the owners are anonymous have the courage to demand AML from their customer, I am of the opinion that these AML can also be very useful in the matter of reassuring the governments and making the governments accept cryptos. Unfortunately the freedom one wanted, will be reduced, but was something expected to happen because of many scam cases

CryptoBry

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While I am happy to see many developments on this front -- the bitcoin ATMs niche of the greater cryptocurrency industry -- many are concern with the same issue again -- the KYC requirement in order to conduct business with the machine. I am not familiar with how these machines are working since I still have to use one but I am just hoping that KYC here is not burdensome and a further intrusion to our privacy. Anyway, since we actually have many options in converting bitcoin to real hard cash then maybe we should avoid this machine beast for the time being. I am particularly interested how the KYC with the machine works...anybody can share any good link for this concern is appreciated.

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Quote from: blueteam09 on June 14, 2019, 03:16:03 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on June 14, 2019, 03:07:49 AM

Why would any normal user be happy with this? I've never bought anything from a BTC ATM but I can understand why a lot of people would. Checking online you can see also that buying or selling without verification is quite a good limit (some even in the thousands of dollars) so that is a really good price to pay to change funds without KYC. Even if a fee is 10% I guess a lot of people will see this as a fair tradeoff. But 10% plus kyc? Not sure that'll go down.

I agree with your opinion. For ordinary people buying Bitcoin through BTC ATM points provide freedom. They have no identity control and no limits set. No need to go through KYC as mandatory exchanges, this is great for many people.

How can you say its Bitcoin ATM's are suits for decentralization.

You are in recording when you buying BTC with security cams. They are watching Wink

It just a matter of investigation. ATM's record and camera records can be watch any time. They will reveal your transaction easily.

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Quote from: slaman29 on June 14, 2019, 03:07:49 AM

Why would any normal user be happy with this? I've never bought anything from a BTC ATM but I can understand why a lot of people would. Checking online you can see also that buying or selling without verification is quite a good limit (some even in the thousands of dollars) so that is a really good price to pay to change funds without KYC. Even if a fee is 10% I guess a lot of people will see this as a fair tradeoff. But 10% plus kyc? Not sure that'll go down.

I agree with your opinion. For ordinary people buying Bitcoin through BTC ATM points provide freedom. They have no identity control and no limits set. No need to go through KYC as mandatory exchanges, this is great for many people.

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Quote from: wattcrypto on June 12, 2019, 03:55:48 PM

https://cryptobriefing.com/ciphertrace-easy-aml-bitcoin-atms/

Known as the Clean Crypto Kiosk Initiative this is pretty exciting to see a company like ciphertrace working to keep the atms compliant. I hope we first see more bitcoin atm machines but secondly AML compliant ones

Clean Crypto Kiosk Initiative Huh

Where did they get that name? How can they explain the term Clean Crypto? With what authority?

Look, I think we need to understand the dynamics of this market. This market is not under the control of a person or the state! It never will be! There will be no bans, cleanups, corrections, errors! Records will be public and auditable! I mean, there's no such thing as clean crypto!
You can't clean anything that doesn't get dirty!

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Why would any normal user be happy with this? I've never bought anything from a BTC ATM but I can understand why a lot of people would. Checking online you can see also that buying or selling without verification is quite a good limit (some even in the thousands of dollars) so that is a really good price to pay to change funds without KYC. Even if a fee is 10% I guess a lot of people will see this as a fair tradeoff. But 10% plus kyc? Not sure that'll go down.

akeegan

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Quote from: dothebeats on June 12, 2019, 05:51:49 PM

Ciphertrace is getting involved in a lot of projects and startups concerning AML and KYC regulations. Finally they are getting that tech into use and to be fair, I haven't expected them to move for the next few months or so. Anyways, this just makes the scene cleaner and somewhat attractive considering that there already is a way to help regulators catch nefarious people trying to use crypto as an avenue with their schemes.

Let's just hope that Ciphertrace tech isn't going to be used to oppress people who are legitimately doing their thing with cryptocurrencies.

I couldn't agree more with you on this. I've been watching ciphertrace as well and its been great to see all of their partnerships. I have a good feeling about these guys siding more with crypto and privacy than against it

Topic: Ciphertrace Offers Easy AML to Bitcoin ATMs (Read 364 times)