Topic: Climate change and the power crisis.. (Read 501 times)
Everybody do your part. I've been thinking of getting out on the ocean, cleaning up all that plastic, burning it in my ship's steam engine, and making electricity to mine Bitcoin.
At the 2015 United Nation's Framework Agreement on Climate Change Convention (UNFCCC) the nations of the world agreed to limit temperature rise due to climate change to 20C
How would they expect to achieve this? Even if we stop all fossil fuel burning NOW, the earth's temperature is still going to rise for the next half century or so.
Or more likely, liars meet and agree to lie together.
At the 2015 United Nation's Framework Agreement on Climate Change Convention (UNFCCC) the nations of the world agreed to limit temperature rise due to climate change to 20C
How would they expect to achieve this? Even if we stop all fossil fuel burning NOW, the earth's temperature is still going to rise for the next half century or so.
Because of the climate change, even the part of north and south pole ice are melting slowly. This is alarming and a huge problem for all of us in the world, I saw a speculation that if the north and south pool ice melted all of the united states and all other countries will be underwater in just 1 week. ....
But there are no scientists who seriously suggest that such a thing might occur.
Great write-up bro. Come to think of it, those things only always happen in developing countries unlike developed ones they knows what they are doing
Because of the climate change, even the part of north and south pole ice are melting slowly. This is alarming and a huge problem for all of us in the world, I saw a speculation that if the north and south pool ice melted all of the united states and all other countries will be underwater in just 1 week. Its like the end of the world!
As someone who comes from a developing country, it will be quite hard for us to get into the level of the rest of the globe because of the regulations which are being put in place at the moment. the only thing which will change the game is the advancement of solar panels and other green energy sources. this will be good in the long term.
That won't work. To move a region of the developing world forward requires power infrastructure sufficient to support modern industry, and this means coal power plants, then efficient electrical distribution to business centers.
It could also mean nuclear power, but that's not available for many regions. Hopefully that will change with the new designs for thorium reactors.
climate change and energy crisis are caused by the absence of natural protection laws. nature has the right not to be damaged just as humans have the right not to be killed.
Currently we are in a century of climate change and energy crises that take place simultaneously. Ironically, the double crisis has an impact on the declining quality of the environment.....
What declining quality is that, and how is it "declining?"
For example are you referring to reduced agricultural output?
Lower livestock production?
As someone who comes from a developing country, it will be quite hard for us to get into the level of the rest of the globe because of the regulations which are being put in place at the moment. the only thing which will change the game is the advancement of solar panels and other green energy sources. this will be good in the long term.
Currently we are in a century of climate change and energy crises that take place simultaneously. Ironically, the double crisis has an impact on the declining quality of the environment. The need for energy also rises when humans must survive the impacts of climate change. Climate change will always lead to extreme dislocations in many ecosystems when those systems undergo changes in rainfall and temperature. A similar case also occurs in the correlation between energy and the environment. The cost to stabilize the climate is large but still manageable. Conversely, the delay will make it more dangerous and very expensive.
..... Then only i can find out is there any logical errors between those steps.
(2-->3) illogical conclusions
You advocated "planting trees." But assuming they have the effect you believe they have, that won't work, when you do the math.
Size of United States: 3,805,927 square miles
Number of square miles of ADDITIONAL trees needed to absorb all US CO2 emissions: 1,042,019 square miles
Nature has a way of putting plants, including trees, in locations where they can thrive.
(3 incorrect understanding)
Moreover, you consider trees as an unqualified Good, based on a belief that they have an effect of removing Co2 from the air. This is false, they are not an unqualified, absolute Good. Trees can either increase or decrease the greenhouse effect depending on conditions. And if they were planted as you assert should be done, the net effect would be negative.
https://carnegiescience.edu/news/co2-effects-plants-increase-global-warming-0
averaged over the entire globe, the evapotranspiration effects of plants account for 16% of warming of the land surface, with greenhouse effects accounting for the rest. But in some regions, such as parts of North America and eastern Asia, it can be more than 25% of the total warming. “If we think of a doubling of carbon dioxide as causing about four degrees of warming, in many places three of those degrees are coming from the effect of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and one is coming from the direct effect of carbon dioxide on plants.
You've proposed people should trust your judgement, embark on a course of action that math says is useless, and that will have the opposite effect you believed.
Any other questions?
I think that a much bigger deal has been made of this than it need be. Yes, pollution is bad. I think we can all agree. But, the climate changes naturally throughout time. in terms of geological time the temperature has risen and fallen in dramatic ways throughout time, and it will continue to do so. It doesn't care about your house or your streets. at some point in time the oceans will rise and flood low areas. Also, in time glaciers will come through and swallow everything in its path. None of this is new. its mother nature and the natural cycle of things.
As far as fossil fuel emissions are concerned sure we need to stop that, its a pollutant. And the sooner the better. But as far as I know the technology to solve this problem isn't quite there yet. But, I have full faith that the right people are hard at work and making real progress and we should all get behind those people. So in my opinion if you really want to help than the next time you need to buy a car then go get yourself a Tesla. Start putting up solar panels and selling your excess power back to your local electric company etc.
I believe that in my lifetime these changes will be made and will be commonplace.
As far as fossil fuel emissions are concerned sure we need to stop that, its a pollutant. And the sooner the better. But as far as I know the technology to solve this problem isn't quite there yet. But, I have full faith that the right people are hard at work and making real progress and we should all get behind those people. So in my opinion if you really want to help than the next time you need to buy a car then go get yourself a Tesla. Start putting up solar panels and selling your excess power back to your local electric company etc.
I believe that in my lifetime these changes will be made and will be commonplace.
RE shitposter, I was joking, you used the word first. Your extensive use of graphs and charts, reminded me of numerous propaganda threads on the reddit climate threads, from which many who disagreed were banned, and are now here.
Yes, you do seem to draw incorrect or unwarranted conclusions from partial or poorly understand phenomena. This is typical of AGW believers —
(1) pick a set of data which affirms the theory of AGW
(2) assert that man is responsible and must change his ways
(3) detail how he must change his ways
Almost always by the time one gets to (3) the assertions are wildly inaccurate.
So to answer your question, yes, there are logical errors both in 1-->2, and 2-->3.
I'm not an AGW believer or i don't have any propaganda. i just want to aware what humans done to the mother nature and we just need to slow down our development or moving to renewable. Can you give me a example(like atmospheric concentration of CO2) and just filter those (1),(2) and (3) steps. Then only i can find out is there any logical errors between those steps. Yes, you do seem to draw incorrect or unwarranted conclusions from partial or poorly understand phenomena. This is typical of AGW believers —
(1) pick a set of data which affirms the theory of AGW
(2) assert that man is responsible and must change his ways
(3) detail how he must change his ways
Almost always by the time one gets to (3) the assertions are wildly inaccurate.
So to answer your question, yes, there are logical errors both in 1-->2, and 2-->3.
Solar scientists are physicists. They do not have those points of view. They study the internal dynamics of our Sun. If they publish papers and publicly warn about the possible consequences of a lowering of solar activity similar to the 17th century, people should listen. That means reading and understanding their reasoning.
Believing is completely irrelevant and is more akin to religion than science.
Don't you think those two answers are not matching with each others. First quote you are saying we can't rely on new findings and second quote you are saying solar scientists are the ones who we should listen. i'm some what confused? Believing is completely irrelevant and is more akin to religion than science.
some times i feeled liked "Denialism is backed by economism" or "Climate change is not happening, Earth is also Flat"
don't just discuss. go to plant more tree as you can.
Yeah I do my part, will you? because we can't wait and watch the disaster without taking preventive measures. First we need to identify the problem clearly and then only together we can stand up in order to protect the earth. Trust me ....
why?
Quote
You sound a lot like Al Gore and I do not know anyone who would trust that guy.
That's your point of view not others. 
Quote
Also I do not think you have clearly thought these things through.
I think I have clear thoughts about what I'm saying and can you highlight where you feeled that I haven't through those things? Can you highlight any incorrect facts that I have mentioned. Because I only want to highlight the actual scenario of what's going on at the moment. I think facts matters rather than accusations.Quote
Are you a shitposter from Reddit Climate?
"Reddit" LOL. Can you prove it? Don't judge a member without looking at his profile. I'm still a member but I'm not a underworld freak who do Bounties, I don't expect such a childish behavior from a legendary member like you. I think "shitposter" is the person who ruins a thread without adding any value to the discussion. So who is the shitposter? Is it me?Yes, you do seem to draw incorrect or unwarranted conclusions from partial or poorly understand phenomena. This is typical of AGW believers —
(1) pick a set of data which affirms the theory of AGW
(2) assert that man is responsible and must change his ways
(3) detail how he must change his ways
Almost always by the time one gets to (3) the assertions are wildly inaccurate.
So to answer your question, yes, there are logical errors both in 1-->2, and 2-->3.
I would comment that science is hard, and a lot of time the answer is "we don't know." Believers in AGW want to propagate their belief, and they have an absolute certainty as to their righteousness. That is much more like religion than science.
New findings occur almost daily, but it may be fifty or seventy-five years before we really understand the chaotic system of climate and it's dynamics.
Also there are 60-80 year cycles, and longer term cycles, of climate to consider. These have warming and cooling periods. An example was the "mini ICE AGE" in the 1700s in which the river Thames in London froze over.
Yes there have been cycles since natural climate variability always there. But the problem is "Anthropogenic effect" will divert those cycles from where it should be actually.Where it "should be?"
Consider what the effect would be, and how many lives would be lost, if another Little Ice Age were to happen.
If it is the case that man's emissions have stopped such a climate event, that is a good outcome, not a bad outcome.
Now consider a real ice age. As you may be aware, these occur periodically and our planet is overdue for one. Again, a slight effect of man's CO2 emissions might at the least, stall such disaster.
I don't think you really mean what you say, "should be."
Among solar scientists, concern has been growing about global cooling. See for example -
http://www.snf.ch/en/researchinFocus/newsroom/Pages/news-170327-press-release-suns-impact-on-climate-change-quantified-for-first-time.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307894966_The_Influence_of_Solar_System_Oscillation_on_the_Variability_of_the_Total_Solar_Irradiance
May I remind you, that in the camp of Global Warming there are many who are basically pushing propaganda? They are politicians, some of the scientists, many people who are well meaning, but many companies who benefit from scaring the public.
Solar scientists are physicists. They do not have those points of view. They study the internal dynamics of our Sun. If they publish papers and publicly warn about the possible consequences of a lowering of solar activity similar to the 17th century, people should listen. That means reading and understanding their reasoning.
Believing is completely irrelevant and is more akin to religion than science.
Also there are 60-80 year cycles, and longer term cycles, of climate to consider. These have warming and cooling periods. An example was the "mini ICE AGE" in the 1700s in which the river Thames in London froze over.
Yes there have been cycles since natural climate variability always there. But the problem is "Anthropogenic effect" will divert those cycles from where it should be actually.Quote
Among solar scientists, concern has been growing about global cooling. See for example -
http://www.snf.ch/en/researchinFocus/newsroom/Pages/news-170327-press-release-suns-impact-on-climate-change-quantified-for-first-time.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307894966_The_Influence_of_Solar_System_Oscillation_on_the_Variability_of_the_Total_Solar_Irradiance
Thanks for looking at the problem from a different angle. However I don't believe about global cooling thing(besides from natural climate varibility).http://www.snf.ch/en/researchinFocus/newsroom/Pages/news-170327-press-release-suns-impact-on-climate-change-quantified-for-first-time.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307894966_The_Influence_of_Solar_System_Oscillation_on_the_Variability_of_the_Total_Solar_Irradiance
"People who deny or try to minimize the importance of human-caused climate change will often argue that climate changed naturally in the past. And while that’s true, we know the climate change is now being dominated by what humans are doing" - The Guardian
Link>>>Pollen data shows humans reversed natural global cooling
don't just discuss. go to plant more tree as you can.
Yeah I do my part, will you? because we can't wait and watch the disaster without taking preventive measures. First we need to identify the problem clearly and then only together we can stand up in order to protect the earth. Trust me ....
why?
Quote
You sound a lot like Al Gore and I do not know anyone who would trust that guy.
That's your point of view not others. Quote
Also I do not think you have clearly thought these things through.
I think I have clear thoughts about what I'm saying and can you highlight where you feeled that I haven't through those things? Can you highlight any incorrect facts that I have mentioned. Because I only want to highlight the actual scenario of what's going on at the moment. I think facts matters rather than accusations.Quote
Are you a shitposter from Reddit Climate?
"Reddit" LOL. Can you prove it? Don't judge a member without looking at his profile. I'm still a member but I'm not a underworld freak who do Bounties, I don't expect such a childish behavior from a legendary member like you. I think "shitposter" is the person who ruins a thread without adding any value to the discussion. So who is the shitposter? Is it me?....,Even if we stop all fossil fuel burning NOW, the earth's temperature is still going to rise for the next half century or so.
There is no certainty of another half century of rising temperatures.
Yes the effect of the additional CO2 will linger in the atmosphere for such a timeframe, but the effect of each additional increment of CO2 is exponentially less than the previous.
Also there are 60-80 year cycles, and longer term cycles, of climate to consider. These have warming and cooling periods. An example was the "mini ICE AGE" in the 1700s in which the river Thames in London froze over.
Among solar scientists, concern has been growing about global cooling. See for example -
http://www.snf.ch/en/researchinFocus/newsroom/Pages/news-170327-press-release-suns-impact-on-climate-change-quantified-for-first-time.aspx
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307894966_The_Influence_of_Solar_System_Oscillation_on_the_Variability_of_the_Total_Solar_Irradiance
don't just discuss. go to plant more tree as you can.
Yeah I do my part, will you? because we can't wait and watch the disaster without taking preventive measures. First we need to identify the problem clearly and then only together we can stand up in order to protect the earth. Trust me ....
why?
You sound a lot like Al Gore and I do not know anyone who would trust that guy.
Also I do not think you have clearly thought these things through.
Are you a shitposter from Reddit Climate?
Jump to: