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Vandroiy

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1002

CPA is operated by usagi
Its funds stem from some GLBSE entry
My question on the photo ID verification was blatantly ignored

This is not an insurance. For all we know, he could not just refuse to pay, but run with the money of the insurance operation as well.

Name your backing, your identity, and any other information that is expensive to fake, and link it in here. Or else label your thread as the joke it is.

PatrickHarnett

hero member

Activity: 518

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: PatrickHarnett on July 02, 2012, 02:16:30 PM

Please disclose the claims paying ability of CPA such as a basic three line balance sheet (assets, liability, spare liquid assets). Without this information, the 100% insurance is only as good as the backer, and I'm not interested in taking "someone's word" on this. An investor now has to rely on YARR, CPA and BS&T all doing their best to meet obligations.

As a counter example, Starfish BCB backs deposits (approx 9000BTC worth) with assets of approx 29,000 coins.

Oddly enough I didn't see a reply to this in the thread even though I would swear I responded to it earlier.

To put it on record, we will shortly be releasing statements which will assuage your concerns, including a spreadsheet which lists the information you have requested. The reason why it hasn't been released already is that we need to put a public face on what amounts to private customer data. We can't release the actual spreadsheets we use to track accounts because they contain sensitive customer information. You can, however, buy in as an insider and receive direct access to the company spreadsheets. Several people have gone that route and I must say, any one of them are qualified to answer your questions. That they have not chosen to do so already is their own prerogative. I won't reveal their names in public as some of them have requested anonymity but if they choose to do so that is up to them.

Thank you - I wasn't expecting a full release of customer specific data, only the overall ability to make good the promises. This is made a bit harder in bitcoin as the ability to have wide/diversified holdings is much less than in other markets.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

I would also guess there won't be more than 1/4th or 1/5th of outstanding shares covered by an active 1 BTC bid, if at all (I also really don't like the "reasonable" timeframe, especially when talking right before about "Each bond you buy can be exchanged for 1 bitcoin face value AT ANY TIME!").

Some hard numbers ("10% of all outstanding bonds can be sold back immediately through an open bid offer @1.0BTC by the operator - we will operate a bot to keep this bid up-to-date every 10 minutes and will rebalance the GLBSE account behind at least every 72h after big sales") that usagi would be comfortable with to commit to (and beat on a regular basis...) would probably be better than having "We'll try our best" as contract...

Luceo

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Per aspera ad astra!

Quote from: Meni Rosenfeld on July 03, 2012, 01:00:41 PM

If the bond is sold for 1.3 BTC, if he keeps 1 BTC sitting in GLBSE for a permanent 100% bid wall, he only has 0.3 BTC to invest in Pirate or elsewhere, and will still need to generate 0.07 BTC weekly, or 23% weekly ROI. I don't believe they can do that. More likely is that they will place some bids for day-to-day demand, and given time will replenish executed bids, withdrawing from investments if necessary.

And, they didn't commit to doing even that. They said that they will execute any asks within a reasonable time frame, without any clue what is "reasonable".

I would guess that in the absence of a default, these will sell pretty well at > 1BTC without any need for usagi to rebuy.

Meni Rosenfeld

donator

Activity: 2058

Merit: 1054

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Vandroiy on July 02, 2012, 09:40:12 AM

Who is "we" and why should "we" be any more trustworthy than the magical "Bitcoin Savings and Trust"?

I don't understand how this fixes the problem. So, now I have a nonexistent rabbit instead of an unknown pirate? What is your backing, whom should I pay a visit in case coins vanish?

I believe the intention is to have a permanent buy order in place for all the outstanding bonds at 1.0 BTC per bond. He cannot have the buy order placed without having the BTC in his GLBSE account. So, you are assured that all the BTC are in place in the GLBSE account and no matter what happens - even a total Pirate default - you will always be able to sell your bonds back at 1.0 BTC per bond.

This is a great plan and does give the customers 100% insurance and assurance. Is that correct?

If the bond is sold for 1.3 BTC, if he keeps 1 BTC sitting in GLBSE for a permanent 100% bid wall, he only has 0.3 BTC to invest in Pirate or elsewhere, and will still need to generate 0.07 BTC weekly, or 23% weekly ROI. I don't believe they can do that. More likely is that they will place some bids for day-to-day demand, and given time will replenish executed bids, withdrawing from investments if necessary.

And, they didn't commit to doing even that. They said that they will execute any asks within a reasonable time frame, without any clue what is "reasonable".

And, usagi can cancel any bids at any time, so this doesn't really answer Vandroiy's question.

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: redbeans2012 on July 02, 2012, 09:32:04 PM

Interesting. Still paying a great rate though. I think people are spoiled.

I keep very little stuff tied up in Pirate stuff, just dabble here and there.

Its hard to go past that kind of return but not knowing what he does to earn those returns really makes me hesitate.

redbeans2012

hero member

Activity: 887

Merit: 1000

Interesting. Still paying a great rate though. I think people are spoiled.

I keep very little stuff tied up in Pirate stuff, just dabble here and there.

nimda

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

0xFB0D8D1534241423

See the OP of the main BS&T thread

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: nimda on July 02, 2012, 05:29:27 PM

What's your plan for the upcoming interest reduction?

Can you point me to a thread about that ? Its one sign of a ponzi collapsing...not that I think it is one.

Its interesting to say the least.....

nimda

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 1000

0xFB0D8D1534241423

What's your plan for the upcoming interest reduction?

PatrickHarnett

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Please disclose the claims paying ability of CPA such as a basic three line balance sheet (assets, liability, spare liquid assets). Without this information, the 100% insurance is only as good as the backer, and I'm not interested in taking "someone's word" on this. An investor now has to rely on YARR, CPA and BS&T all doing their best to meet obligations.

As a counter example, Starfish BCB backs deposits (approx 9000BTC worth) with assets of approx 29,000 coins.

Vandroiy

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1002

Quote from: ?? on ??

On the other hand, if you would rather stick with YARR, we are fully insured by CPA, and CPA is Photo ID verified with the GLBSE Grin

It might be considered proper conduct to add that CPA is also run by you.

Anyway, some sort of ID verification might help, at least if it isn't on the level that can be faked in half an hour. What sort of Photo ID verification is this, and who is the verified person in question?

Quite frankly, this is an incredibly good deal. If it actually is legitimate, I can easily get you funds at just half the interest rate. That or I could fly over to wherever you live and check things out in person. In fact, probably both. But chances are it'll just be my longest late April Fool's flight.

Vandroiy

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1002

Who is "we" and why should "we" be any more trustworthy than the magical "Bitcoin Savings and Trust"?

I don't understand how this fixes the problem. So, now I have a nonexistent rabbit instead of an unknown pirate? What is your backing, whom should I pay a visit in case coins vanish?

vokain

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1019

Quote from: ?? on ??

Interesting new offering. Do I understand this correctly?

Each week you plan to sell 100 bonds. Your expected selling price is 1.20 per bond. So you plan to take in 120 BTC per week.

100 of this must go into your BS&T account leaving 20 BTC.

However, in order to satisfy the 100% insurance requirement you will need to add 80 BTC out of your own pocket each week in order to deposit 100 BTC into your insurance account.

I am assuming you will simply deposit the 100 BTC in your GLBSE account and use it to issue the permanent buy order at 1.0 BTC.

Bottom line from your point of view:

Every week you will need to come up with about 80 BTC out of your own pocket (could be less, but may actually be more).
Every day you will need to pay out the dividend out of your own pocket (Pirate only pays once per week to reimburse you).
For all this effort you will eventually make 1 BTC per week (the Sunday payments) on about 80 BTC invested.

A return to you of only 1.25% per week on money that has the same default risk as a direct depost that would make you 7% per week.

Unless I am missing something this is a horrible investment for you and I did not even mention all the GLBSE fees which will make it even worse.

Maybe he's assuming he can raise a fund >(7/1.25) times larger than the principal he could have only alone? The margins are thinning for passthroughs as well, as more and more people offer Pirate passthroughs. You guys ever wonder how big Pirate's web is?

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: Sukrim on July 02, 2012, 07:09:48 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on July 02, 2012, 06:05:33 AM

Im guessing thats the cost to be 100% insured the other 6 days a week. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

To me too, but after all last time I checked 6% is less than 7%. Not "essentially the same".

Might be interesting to buy YARR + CPA shares so you get some of the profits from that missing payment on sunday back.
Still I kinda find it a little bit odd/misleading to claim dividends every day but not pay sundays. 0.0085 BTC per day per share (also on sundays) would give even slighly better returns to usagi but be really "daily" (or 0.009 for slightly worse conditions for usagi but one decimal place less).

By the way, "subbing" is not needed any more, please use the watchlist @PsychoticBoy! (check my sig)

I guess it could also work like that and stick to the wording of "every day".

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on July 02, 2012, 06:05:33 AM

Im guessing thats the cost to be 100% insured the other 6 days a week. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

To me too, but after all last time I checked 6% is less than 7%. Not "essentially the same".

Might be interesting to buy YARR + CPA shares so you get some of the profits from that missing payment on sunday back.
Still I kinda find it a little bit odd/misleading to claim dividends every day but not pay sundays. 0.0085 BTC per day per share (also on sundays) would give even slighly better returns to usagi but be really "daily" (or 0.009 for slightly worse conditions for usagi but one decimal place less).

By the way, "subbing" is not needed any more, please use the watchlist @PsychoticBoy! (check my sig)

thirdlight

sr. member

Activity: 445

Merit: 250

How likely are your Pirate funds to be displaced by earlier account holders? Or, for how long have you held a Pirate account? What happens if funds are displaced?

Thanks,

Bitcoin Oz

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Wat

Quote from: Sukrim on July 02, 2012, 05:54:15 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Plus, this is perpetual, and pays out essentially the same as foo.pppt -- which costs between 1.05 and 1.12 but is not insured at all.

Foo pays 7 Bitcents in 7 days, you pay 6 bitcents in 7 days (1 cent each day except sunday?). Or do you mean you pay for example 2 bitcents on mondays?
Can I trade in shares of other PPT assets as well in exchange for yours?

I still hope there's a dividend API soon, so daily payments are easily possible to automate...

Im guessing thats the cost to be 100% insured the other 6 days a week. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: ?? on ??

Plus, this is perpetual, and pays out essentially the same as foo.pppt -- which costs between 1.05 and 1.12 but is not insured at all.

Foo pays 7 Bitcents in 7 days, you pay 6 bitcents in 7 days (1 cent each day except sunday?). Or do you mean you pay for example 2 bitcents on mondays?
Can I trade in shares of other PPT assets as well in exchange for yours?

I still hope there's a dividend API soon, so daily payments are easily possible to automate...

ianspain

donator

Activity: 164

Merit: 100

yeah, when's the IPO???

Topic: closed - page 6. (Read 14906 times)