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Topic: [CLOSED] Bitmine CoinCraft A1 28nm chip distribution / DIY support - page 6. (Read 81295 times)

newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Clarification: SPI Processing shorter Chip Chains

I have been approached by users having difficulties to operate their designs with the official or reference cgminer driver.

Here is the SPI trace provided:
Code:
TX:  8 bytes: 09 00 88 A6 21 84 00 00      //spi_send_command
RX:  8 bytes: 00 00 00 00 09 00 88 A6      //spi_send_command
RX:  2 bytes: 21 84               //spi_poll_result
RX:  2 bytes: 00 00               //spi_poll_result
RX:  2 bytes: 00 00               //spi_poll_result

To understand why polling for the ACK (i.e. reading 0x90 00 from the chain) fails in this case, consider how the current implementation accesses the chain:
1) write a command to the first A1, which with every next dummy write is shifted to the next A1
2) to get an ACK, shift the data through the chain until you receive the expected return values

The reference implementation in a first step writes the command and in the second polls for the result. This works with longer chains, but in this case (with 1 or 2 chip chains) fails because the response is obviously returned already while the command is still written.

To circumvent the issue, one needs to search for the ACK already in the RX buffer of the command write step. In the upper case the correct processing would therefore be:
1) write 8 bytes for command 09
2) in the RX buffer search for the ACK (here at position 5)
3) determine how many more words need to be polled for the full ACK (here 2 more words) and do the poll


Unfortunately I have no single chip chain available to test and implement this, but it obviously is no rocket science and should be easily done.

I had same problem in 1-chip Test.

I just changed additional recv size. :-)
(at [register read] & [result read] )
donator
Activity: 919
Merit: 1000
Clarification: SPI Processing shorter Chip Chains

I have been approached by users having difficulties to operate their designs with the official or reference cgminer driver.

Here is the SPI trace provided:
Code:
TX:  8 bytes: 09 00 88 A6 21 84 00 00      //spi_send_command
RX:  8 bytes: 00 00 00 00 09 00 88 A6      //spi_send_command
RX:  2 bytes: 21 84               //spi_poll_result
RX:  2 bytes: 00 00               //spi_poll_result
RX:  2 bytes: 00 00               //spi_poll_result

To understand why polling for the ACK (i.e. reading 0x90 00 from the chain) fails in this case, consider how the current implementation accesses the chain:
1) write a command to the first A1, which with every next dummy write is shifted to the next A1
2) to get an ACK, shift the data through the chain until you receive the expected return values

The reference implementation in a first step writes the command and in the second polls for the result. This works with longer chains, but in this case (with 1 or 2 chip chains) fails because the response is obviously returned already while the command is still written.

To circumvent the issue, one needs to search for the ACK already in the RX buffer of the command write step. In the upper case the correct processing would therefore be:
1) write 8 bytes for command 09
2) in the RX buffer search for the ACK (here at position 5)
3) determine how many more words need to be polled for the full ACK (here 2 more words) and do the poll


Unfortunately I have no single chip chain available to test and implement this, but it obviously is no rocket science and should be easily done.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1000
I changed the price $6 per board.

Instead adding shipping fee ( EMS shipping )

My material cost of PCB is $5 and Stencil is $85

And selling it with $6 / $90 each.

Is this fair price?



Do you plan to provide "full DIY package" ? With the PCB and the SMD components ? Even maybe with A1 chips?
You were talking about $357 for a "full kit", this is quite expansive, maybe buying more than 10sets of components could lower the price...
At this price, the ROI is too long for a DIY kit I think
DIY means fun and playing with technology. making profit is called business which is completely different thing.
However losing 100 or 200 usd in DIY fun project can gain thousands doing business
But have in mind soldering components and uploading someone else fw is not DIY it is just a copy and page ste
Whatever you do you have to leave some pice of your mind there
So do not squeeze this guy it is useless . He can save a lot of time for you which is golden and he deserves a bug for sure
full member
Activity: 155
Merit: 100
I changed the price $6 per board.

Instead adding shipping fee ( EMS shipping )

My material cost of PCB is $5 and Stencil is $85

And selling it with $6 / $90 each.

Is this fair price?



Do you plan to provide "full DIY package" ? With the PCB and the SMD components ? Even maybe with A1 chips?
You were talking about $357 for a "full kit", this is quite expansive, maybe buying more than 10sets of components could lower the price...
At this price, the ROI is too long for a DIY kit I think
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
I changed the price $6 per board.

Instead adding shipping fee ( EMS shipping )

My material cost of PCB is $5 and Stencil is $85

And selling it with $6 / $90 each.

Is this fair price?

newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

I see.

You want complete kit.

I only have 10 set of components for me. ( It was $1330 for 10 set. including shipping fee & customs VAT, I order from Digi-key, mouser, LTC)

It will be $357 per board. ( 1 PCB + set of components + 2 A1 chip )


You are too expensive, maybe it's time to think about some other PCB facility to make you boards and kits ?

Do you need any recomendation ?

OK, what's proper price per board do you think.
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
no avatar for now




Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

I see.

You want complete kit.

I only have 10 set of components for me. ( It was $1330 for 10 set. including shipping fee & customs VAT, I order from Digi-key, mouser, LTC)

It will be $357 per board. ( 1 PCB + set of components + 2 A1 chip )


You are too expensive, maybe it's time to think about some other PCB facility to make you boards and kits ?

Do you need any recomendation ?
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

I see.

You want complete kit.

I only have 10 set of components for me. ( It was $1330 for 10 set. including shipping fee & customs VAT, I order from Digi-key, mouser, LTC)

It will be $357 per board. ( 1 PCB + set of components + 2 A1 chip )
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )


Why would someone pay 24 USD for bare board from KOREA, when public design is published and transport costs more then it's production ?

If you could scale up assembly price to 24, that would mean something, this way it's a rip-off...

Oh, I don't known your PCB maker's sample PCB production fee.

But in my case, I ordered this PCB before,  ( 8pc sample production 4 day deliver ) is was $200. ( $25 per board ).

If you need small quantity (5~10), It almost same price with sample production.

You don't need to wait production time.

If you want over 10 pc,  you just make your order and wait over a week for production.

I just think someone need this PCB with stencil for small DIY. (It is not a mass production price.)
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
no avatar for now




Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )


Why would someone pay 24 USD for bare board from KOREA, when public design is published and transport costs more then it's production ?

If you could scale up assembly price to 24, that would mean something, this way it's a rip-off...
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS


answer is A. :-)

you need SMD components.

I'm selling $24 per board. ( b and c are impossible in this price. )
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
no avatar for now




Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.


You still didn't answer what are you selling :

a) NAKED PCB
b) ASSEMBLED PCB
c) ASSEMBLED PCB WITH A1 CHIPS
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?


I checked license for selling.

I'm hust selling PCB and stencil for DIY guys.

24USD per board is chipper than sample PCB making in my country.

It you need many PCB, you need to order it to PCB factory.

But if you need just 5~10 PCB with Stencil, you can save time and money by my item.
full member
Activity: 155
Merit: 100




Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.

+1
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0

I get if you're not including the actual A1's, but a DIY kit should include everything someone needs to assemble the device.  That is, the PCB and stencil are great, but it should include all the SMD components as well.  A "platinum" kit or something could also be made available which includes the A1.  I'm okay with paying a bit more for all the work you put into producing the kit and sourcing the components, but I can't justify $300 for nothing but PCB's and a stencil.  Even if that's a legit cost (I don't want to accuse you of unfair pricing), it's still too much for me to drop on a "kit" that doesn't include everything I'd need to do the job.
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
no avatar for now




Anyone need reference board PCB?

I'm selling reference board PCB with stencil.

Here is my site.

http://theminingware.com/

This board has a granted public licence on github for 2-chip PCB, so what are you selling then ?

You're selling produced boards or what ?

24 USD per board ? Assembled, without A1 chips or just board and nothing else ?
full member
Activity: 222
Merit: 100
The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing. Room for 4 chips... 6 unlikely.



Wow good work guys!!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing. Room for 4 chips... 6 unlikely.

member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
no avatar for now
Another issue with hashing speed boost might be something we haven't previously thought about, and that is actually Raspberry Pi's FTDI, SPI and wrappers whose quality might influence operations with data Rx/Tx between NETWORK<< >> RPI<< >>BOARDS<< >>CHIPS.

Depends in most cases weather RPI parts are original or clone/fork.

See this russian test :

http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal

This article for which I posted link above, is a synthesis of one important dogma in PCB production.

And it comes out to this : IT IS OF NO MINOR IMPORTANCE FROM WHOM YOUR PCB MANUFACTURER ORDERS PARTS AND ARE THEY REAL OR FAKE; GOOD OR JUST GOOD-ENOUGH. Few cents could cost you thousands in debugging time...
...so the cheapest is not always the smartest choice.

Resume from the article :
"It seems that in this case Chinese designers implemented protocol-compatible "fake" chip, using mask-programmable microcontroller. This way they only needed to redo 1 mask - this is much cheaper than full mask set, and explains a lot of redundant pads on the die. Fake chip was working kinda fine until FTDI released drivers update, which were able to detect fake chips via USB and send only 0's in this case. It was impossible to foresee any possible further driver checks without full schematic recovery and these hidden tricks saved FTDI profits.

What's the economic reason of making software fake of well-known chip instead of making new one under your own name? This way they don't need to buy USB VID, sign drivers in Microsoft, no expenses on advertisement. This fake chip will be used right away in numerous mass-manufactured products. New chip will require designing new products (or revisions) - so sales ramp up will happen only 2-3 years later. Die manufacturing cost is roughly the same for both dies (~10-15 cents) .

From now on one should pay more and more attention when working with small shady distributors. Their slightly lower price could cause numerous hours of debugging fun."

This article above, covers 500/600-800 nm DIE and 68/123/143 µm SRAM 2
technology, but the same principle in COMPONENT CHOICE(S) have to be applied to this DIY ASIC PCB and 118 components which goes on it as well as components on power-train (PCI-E power bars), Raspberry Pi, and not to forget - POWER SUPPLY (SUPPLIES).
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