[CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers - page 151.

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 07:09:44 PM

I also have no problems paying fees if they are reasonable - anything above 0.5% for a very large pool is unreasonable in my opinion as the costs associated with running such a pool are much smaller than the revenue generated even at 0.5%.
But that's just me

Again, this really isn't the place for your anti free market rhetoric.

Create a thread just for this and I would happily post in to debate this subject with you in a civilized manner, as would many others. To try and keep debating this in a pools support thread is improper.

CYPER

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 502

Quote from: os2sam on January 14, 2014, 07:03:08 PM

I called subsidy.

They could not do that if they did not have their own high end ASIC's and people paying for their other products and services. If I were a paying customer I would not be ok with it. But I'm not and I guess it is ok with they paying customers they do have.

All I am saying there is no such thing as something for nothing.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

The fact is people who mine with their own equipment pay 0 fees. Whatever I mine with my share of the pool I withdraw at 100%.
That is what matters to me and I assume a lot of other people.

Btw how does Slush provide 0% fees. Who is subsidizing that?

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: sconklin321 on January 14, 2014, 06:57:04 PM

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:11 PM

Quote from: os2sam on January 14, 2014, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5%

You do have a choice. Choose between a 0 fee pool or a fee pool.

You do NOT have the right to tell a person what he should charge for a good or service. You do have the right not to buy or use that good or service though.

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

I don't see how people using the market service and paying fees there has anything to do with the pool being 0 fee.
It's 2 different services after all. How hard is that to comprehend?

If you're purely connecting your hashing power to the pool, yes it is a 0 fee pool. However, if you by GHS from their market, you pay a transaction fee on that market, then you pay per share your Gh/s generates as a maintenance fee for using their processing power. So, in essence, some people are paying for their hashing at the pool and others are not. Currently, those that are using the cloud hashing are paying a fee of 4.55% for PPLNS compared to the 3% paid at BTC Guild. I for one have no problem paying fees because someone has to pay to keep the servers going to process all the shares that we submit. Below is a link to the fees ghash charges.

https://cex.io/maintenance

Which makes my point.

Thank you for posting the facts, which I didn't feel like researching, to prove my point that it is NOT free operation. Someone is paying for it and subsidizing those who choose not to pay for it. Again that is all the reason I need to not make use of that pool/service.

CYPER

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 502

Quote from: sconklin321 on January 14, 2014, 06:57:04 PM

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:11 PM

Quote from: os2sam on January 14, 2014, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5%

You do have a choice. Choose between a 0 fee pool or a fee pool.

You do NOT have the right to tell a person what he should charge for a good or service. You do have the right not to buy or use that good or service though.

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

I don't see how people using the market service and paying fees there has anything to do with the pool being 0 fee.
It's 2 different services after all. How hard is that to comprehend?

If you're purely connecting your hashing power to the pool, yes it is a 0 fee pool. However, if you by GHS from their market, you pay a transaction fee on that market, then you pay per share your Gh/s generates as a maintenance fee for using their processing power. So, in essence, some people are paying for their hashing at the pool and others are not. Currently, those that are using the cloud hashing are paying a fee of 4.55% for PPLNS compared to the 3% paid at BTC Guild. I for one have no problem paying fees because someone has to pay to keep the servers going to process all the shares that we submit. Below is a link to the fees ghash charges.

https://cex.io/maintenance

I am only referring to people who point their own equipment to Ghash.io by choice.
I also have no problems paying fees if they are reasonable - anything above 0.5% for a very large pool is unreasonable in my opinion as the costs associated with running such a pool are much smaller than the revenue generated even at 0.5%.
But that's just me

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:11 PM

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

I don't see how people using the market service and paying fees there has anything to do with the pool being 0 fee.
It's 2 different services after all. How hard is that to comprehend?
[/quote]

I called subsidy.

They could not do that if they did not have their own high end ASIC's and people paying for their other products and services. If I were a paying customer I would not be ok with it. But I'm not and I guess it is ok with they paying customers they do have.

All I am saying there is no such thing as something for nothing.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

sconklin321

sr. member

Activity: 543

Merit: 250

Orjinal üyelik ToRiKaN banlanalı asır ol

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:11 PM

Quote from: os2sam on January 14, 2014, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5%

You do have a choice. Choose between a 0 fee pool or a fee pool.

You do NOT have the right to tell a person what he should charge for a good or service. You do have the right not to buy or use that good or service though.

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

I don't see how people using the market service and paying fees there has anything to do with the pool being 0 fee.
It's 2 different services after all. How hard is that to comprehend?

If you're purely connecting your hashing power to the pool, yes it is a 0 fee pool. However, if you by GHS from their market, you pay a transaction fee on that market, then you pay per share your Gh/s generates as a maintenance fee for using their processing power. So, in essence, some people are paying for their hashing at the pool and others are not. Currently, those that are using the cloud hashing are paying a fee of 4.55% for PPLNS compared to the 3% paid at BTC Guild. I for one have no problem paying fees because someone has to pay to keep the servers going to process all the shares that we submit. Below is a link to the fees ghash charges.

https://cex.io/maintenance

OleOle

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Are you like these guys?

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 06:31:56 PM

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 06:08:48 PM

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 05:33:52 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on January 14, 2014, 05:11:23 PM

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

Now, if the people pleading poverty could kindly leave the thread. If you can't afford to drive, then you're walking or taking the bus.

Can't you read the sign? ----> No whining allowed.

Cheesy

You like telling people what to do, don't you?

I seem to recall that you used a significant number of pages of this thread trying to bully, cajole, insult, argue and brow-beat the pool users and pool operator to bend to your will and reduce the pool fees.

Unlike my post above, you didn't make any joke of what you were doing, you were caustic, unmannered, aggressive and a selfish bastard. If this were my thread I've have banned your ass pages ago. You've contributed nothing to this conversation, all you've done is try to leverage your own interests and attempt to persuade others that a 'race to the bottom' in terms of fees is in miners interests. It's not and you saying it doesn't make it so, however many times you say it.

I automatically assume that people who use insults to backup their arguments are are usually not very intelligent.
The good thing is this isn't your thread, so you don't make the decisions around here no matter how much you want it Grin

I'm pleased to note that your behaviour has really toned down since the moderation feature got introduced - introduced because you were so selfish and aggressive begging for lower fees for page after page.

I'll draw the line here and you can whistle in the wind for a while. People know what you're about, you've made your intentions and modus operandi quite clear.

CYPER

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 502

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 06:08:48 PM

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 05:33:52 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on January 14, 2014, 05:11:23 PM

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

Now, if the people pleading poverty could kindly leave the thread. If you can't afford to drive, then you're walking or taking the bus.

Can't you read the sign? ----> No whining allowed.

Cheesy

You like telling people what to do, don't you?

I seem to recall that you used a significant number of pages of this thread trying to bully, cajole, insult, argue and brow-beat the pool users and pool operator to bend to your will and reduce the pool fees.

Unlike my post above, you didn't make any joke of what you were doing, you were caustic, unmannered, aggressive and a selfish bastard. If this were my thread I've have banned your ass pages ago. You've contributed nothing to this conversation, all you've done is try to leverage your own interests and attempt to persuade others that a 'race to the bottom' in terms of fees is in miners interests. It's not and you saying it doesn't make it so, however many times you say it.

I automatically assume that people who use insults to backup their arguments are are usually not very intelligent.
The good thing is this isn't your thread, so you don't make the decisions around here no matter how much you want it Grin

OleOle

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Are you like these guys?

Quote from: CYPER on January 14, 2014, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 05:33:52 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on January 14, 2014, 05:11:23 PM

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

Now, if the people pleading poverty could kindly leave the thread. If you can't afford to drive, then you're walking or taking the bus.

Can't you read the sign? ----> No whining allowed.

Cheesy

You like telling people what to do, don't you?

I seem to recall that you used a significant number of pages of this thread trying to bully, cajole, insult, argue and brow-beat the pool users and pool operator to bend to your will and reduce the pool fees.

Unlike my post above, you didn't make any joke of what you were doing, you were caustic, unmannered, aggressive and a selfish bastard. If this were my thread I've have banned your ass pages ago. You've contributed nothing to this conversation, all you've done is try to leverage your own interests and attempt to persuade others that a 'race to the bottom' in terms of fees is in miners interests. It's not and you saying it doesn't make it so, however many times you say it.

CYPER

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 502

Quote from: OleOle on January 14, 2014, 05:33:52 PM

Quote from: mdude77 on January 14, 2014, 05:11:23 PM

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

Now, if the people pleading poverty could kindly leave the thread. If you can't afford to drive, then you're walking or taking the bus.

Can't you read the sign? ----> No whining allowed.

Cheesy

You like telling people what to do, don't you?

CYPER

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 502

Quote from: os2sam on January 14, 2014, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5%

You do have a choice. Choose between a 0 fee pool or a fee pool.

You do NOT have the right to tell a person what he should charge for a good or service. You do have the right not to buy or use that good or service though.

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

I don't see how people using the market service and paying fees there has anything to do with the pool being 0 fee.
It's 2 different services after all. How hard is that to comprehend?

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5%

You do have a choice. Choose between a 0 fee pool or a fee pool.

You do NOT have the right to tell a person what he should charge for a good or service. You do have the right not to buy or use that good or service though.

Also Ghasheeo is not 0 fee. Others are paying the fee for the freeloaders. If I were a fee payer I would be irritated by their allowing freeloaders on my dime. Of course the extra hash rate does lower the variance, that is important to many. Still that is that pools choice.

OleOle

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Are you like these guys?

Quote from: mdude77 on January 14, 2014, 05:11:23 PM

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

Exactly, I couldn't agree more.

Now, if the people pleading poverty could kindly leave the thread. If you can't afford to drive, then you're walking or taking the bus.

Can't you read the sign? ----> No whining allowed.

Cheesy

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 14, 2014, 05:04:15 PM

Quote from: organofcorti on January 11, 2014, 08:31:34 AM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 11, 2014, 08:07:29 AM

do u take in consideration to make btcguild 0% fees pool ?

And then how to pay for anything?

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5% ...

just my 2 cents

Miners do have a choice. You get what you pay for, and the miners have spoken. There's a reason BTCGuild is as big as it is.

M

rammy2k2

legendary

Activity: 1974

Merit: 1003

Quote from: organofcorti on January 11, 2014, 08:31:34 AM

Quote from: rammy2k2 on January 11, 2014, 08:07:29 AM

do u take in consideration to make btcguild 0% fees pool ?

And then how to pay for anything?

if we want to protect the network, miners should have a choice, eligius has 0 fees, ghash has 0 fees , btcguild has fees up to 7.5% ...

just my 2 cents

guytechie

hero member

Activity: 677

Merit: 500

Just got 6 antminers when luck turned sour. Sad

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Quote from: eleuthria on January 13, 2014, 08:10:36 PM

Quote from: os2sam on January 13, 2014, 07:58:51 PM

Why not start the difficulty at 32 or 64 and let it go down if necessary as opposed to going up from a too low of a level? That would seem better for everyone.

The only way to know your hashing rate (and thus adjust your difficulty) is if you're actually submitting shares. Starting that high would make low hash rate miners virtually unusable on the pool. Yes, it averages out over time, but most users have no clue how difficulty works in the first place and would just see BTC Guild not giving them any credit for an hour.

It's very quick to adjust a miner UP in difficulty (or they can just set it themself). It's much harder to know if a miner needs to be adjusted down.

Well I guess the best thing to do is to let your miner run for an hour or so and see what difficulty the pools sets it to and then change your worker minimum difficulty to that level.

I just updated my worker by the way.

eleuthria

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1007

Quote from: os2sam on January 13, 2014, 07:58:51 PM

Why not start the difficulty at 32 or 64 and let it go down if necessary as opposed to going up from a too low of a level? That would seem better for everyone.

The only way to know your hashing rate (and thus adjust your difficulty) is if you're actually submitting shares. Starting that high would make low hash rate miners virtually unusable on the pool. Yes, it averages out over time, but most users have no clue how difficulty works in the first place and would just see BTC Guild not giving them any credit for an hour.

It's very quick to adjust a miner UP in difficulty (or they can just set it themself). It's much harder to know if a miner needs to be adjusted down.

os2sam

legendary

Activity: 3583

Merit: 1094

Think for yourself

Why not start the difficulty at 32 or 64 and let it go down if necessary as opposed to going up from a too low of a level? That would seem better for everyone.

eleuthria

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1007

Jupiters (and quite a few other ASICs) experience big issues when mining at low difficulties due to just how rapid they produce shares. In the case of a Jupiter, at the default difficulty (2), it's producing about 50 shares per second.

BTC Guild adjusts difficulty very rapidly for miners at that speed, to help them get to an appropriate difficulty. Of course, some miners have problems with the work updates pushed by difficulty increases! BTC Guild can push those in very rapid succession if you start at the default difficulty on a 400 GH/s+ machine as it tries to get your difficulty to an appropriate level.

Setting a minimum difficulty prevents this entire process from taking place

.

Topic: [CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers - page 151. (Read 903163 times)