[CLOSED] [EU-PL] KnC Titan - 100 Mh/s LTC Miner (100 shares per unit)

vleroybrown

hero member

Activity: 1223

Merit: 506

This is who we are.

Quote from: LDR on March 21, 2014, 06:00:01 PM

A couple of things:

The most profitable alt is not litecoin and it hasn't been for a long time. So all 15 miners will only be mining litecoin? No waffle pool or clever mining? Why not mine these and then just buy litecoins with the bitcoins, you will end up with more litecoin?(it seems you have a thing for litecoin)
12% is way to high and a percentage doesn't make sense for buyers when the costs are fixed. Electricity cost stays the same, and once you set up the Titan's, you pretty much don't do anything besides payouts which can also be automated. According to the Titan listing page, it uses a standard ATX power supply thus limiting power consumption to max 1500 watts.
- 1500 watts costs about $205 per month at 0.19 kw/h per Titan
- 205 * 15 Titans = $3075 Total monthly electricity cost for all 15 Titans
- 12% of 100 MH/S equals over $940 per month in fees per Titan.
- 940 * 15 = $14100 in monthly fees for all 15
- 14100 - 3075 = $11025 in profit for you per month in fees alone, or $735 per Titan.(this is much higher than the 2% premium you are claiming above)
Even if difficulty triples(it won't), this equates to an over 200% markup on the cost to hosting the miner. Scrypt coin difficulty does not work like bitcoin because if difficulty spikes, miners change coins until it drops back down (see this Dogechain difficulty chart for an example). Thus, difficulty is not an excuse and the fees seem shamelessly high.
Since we don't get any of the profit from selling the miner, isn't this more like a rental than a group buy? Group buy implies partial ownership and proceeds from the sale of the miner once unprofitable. You are actually proposing a 24 month rental. So basically you are charging a 12% fee on top of a rental that doesn't mine the most profitable coins.

No one in their right mind will buy shares in this because you are killing ROI potential in every stage: only litecoin, ridiculous fees and no ownership. Its been a couple of days and it seems like you haven't sold any shares, do you have any plans to change fee or ownership structure?

lol negotiable

LDR

member

Activity: 119

Merit: 10

A couple of things:

The most profitable alt is not litecoin and it hasn't been for a long time. So all 15 miners will only be mining litecoin? No waffle pool or clever mining? Why not mine these and then just buy litecoins with the bitcoins, you will end up with more litecoin?(it seems you have a thing for litecoin)
12% is way to high and a percentage doesn't make sense for buyers when the costs are fixed. Electricity cost stays the same, and once you set up the Titan's, you pretty much don't do anything besides payouts which can also be automated. According to the Titan listing page, it uses a standard ATX power supply thus limiting power consumption to max 1500 watts.
- 1500 watts costs about $205 per month at 0.19 kw/h per Titan
- 205 * 15 Titans = $3075 Total monthly electricity cost for all 15 Titans
- 12% of 100 MH/S equals over $940 per month in fees per Titan.
- 940 * 15 = $14100 in monthly fees for all 15
- 14100 - 3075 = $11025 in profit for you per month in fees alone, or $735 per Titan.(this is much higher than the 2% premium you are claiming above)
Even if difficulty triples(it won't), this equates to an over 200% markup on the cost to hosting the miner. Scrypt coin difficulty does not work like bitcoin because if difficulty spikes, miners change coins until it drops back down (see this Dogechain difficulty chart for an example). Thus, difficulty is not an excuse and the fees seem shamelessly high.
Since we don't get any of the profit from selling the miner, isn't this more like a rental than a group buy? Group buy implies partial ownership and proceeds from the sale of the miner once unprofitable. You are actually proposing a 24 month rental. So basically you are charging a 12% fee on top of a rental that doesn't mine the most profitable coins.

No one in their right mind will buy shares in this because you are killing ROI potential in every stage: only litecoin, ridiculous fees and no ownership. Its been a couple of days and it seems like you haven't sold any shares, do you have any plans to change fee or ownership structure?

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: whoiis on March 20, 2014, 11:02:37 PM

So the 12% cover electricity?
Please be more specific.
Can you provide proof of purchase for the 15 you ordered?
PS. Don't get me wrong, I want to join your GB, but want to have laid out all costs/fees etc beforehand

No problem Wink

more question means more understanding for every body but... I answer this question already

:

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 04:37:26 AM

...
Yes, our hosting services covers all costs ( electricity, up link and maintenance)
Device will be just plug, in our stable running infrastructure with UPS and fail over link.

3 orders for 5 devices per order, are waiting for investors

whoiis

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 02:30:48 PM

Quote from: rozey on March 20, 2014, 01:15:08 PM

Quote from: whoiis on March 20, 2014, 12:38:49 PM

So fees are 12% plus power costs?
Any other costs?
PS. Where can I see how many shares were bought?

This does seem a bit expensive if I must be honest. 12% hosting fee, 2,2% markup on the starting price (16,63 compared to 17 btc) AND $0,19/kWh.

All this information are in OP, pleas read carefully and with understanding :

Quote

9. Pricing

Today (19.03.2014) device price was 16.63 BTC with delivery, we count it like 17 BTC (because price fluctuations and additional connecting cost, but all transaction and orders will be transparent and over payed BTC will be split with first dividends, same like over payed cost will be split between shareholders).

A: For all our HOSTING service we asking for a 12% of hashing power.

12% of hash power are final HOSTING cost.
This "2,2% markup" are only to cleaning the transaction for shares and like we statement in OP :

Quote

All transaction and orders will be transparent and over payed BTC will be split with first dividends, same like over payed cost will be split between shareholders.

Because BTC price are going down right now doubtless we will must pay more BTC for the devices from our pocket, and we will take this differences from first dividends.

Some body think this is not fair?

So the 12% cover electricity?
Please be more specific.
Can you provide proof of purchase for the 15 you ordered?
PS. Don't get me wrong, I want to join your GB, but want to have laid out all costs/fees etc beforehand

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: rozey on March 20, 2014, 01:15:08 PM

Quote from: whoiis on March 20, 2014, 12:38:49 PM

So fees are 12% plus power costs?
Any other costs?
PS. Where can I see how many shares were bought?

This does seem a bit expensive if I must be honest. 12% hosting fee, 2,2% markup on the starting price (16,63 compared to 17 btc) AND $0,19/kWh.

All this information are in OP, pleas read carefully and with understanding :

Quote

9. Pricing

Today (19.03.2014) device price was 16.63 BTC with delivery, we count it like 17 BTC (because price fluctuations and additional connecting cost, but all transaction and orders will be transparent and over payed BTC will be split with first dividends, same like over payed cost will be split between shareholders).

A: For all our HOSTING service we asking for a 12% of hashing power.

12% of hash power are final HOSTING cost.
This "2,2% markup" are only to cleaning the transaction for shares and like we statement in OP :

Quote

All transaction and orders will be transparent and over payed BTC will be split with first dividends, same like over payed cost will be split between shareholders.

Because BTC price are going down right now doubtless we will must pay more BTC for the devices from our pocket, and we will take this differences from first dividends.

Some body think this is not fair?

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: medicine on March 20, 2014, 06:51:12 AM

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 05:39:50 AM

Quote from: medicine on March 20, 2014, 04:51:26 AM

ah you already ordered 15 devices? And the shares you are selling are for those devices? Or will you be ordering more units as you sell shares?

We ordered more that 15 (that more was already payed)

This GB 15 devices left for pay by the investors

ok just let me double check because your English isn't clear. The devices you are selling shares for, you have already ordered? Or you will order more after investors buy shares?
Thanks

Sorry for misunderstanding.
15 devices for this GB was already ordered but not paid, orders wait for investors pay for shares and then we will pay for made orders.

rozey

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Quote from: whoiis on March 20, 2014, 12:38:49 PM

So fees are 12% plus power costs?
Any other costs?
PS. Where can I see how many shares were bought?

This does seem a bit expensive if I must be honest. 12% hosting fee, 2,2% markup on the starting price (16,63 compared to 17 btc) AND $0,19/kWh.

whoiis

member

Activity: 83

Merit: 10

So fees are 12% plus power costs?
Any other costs?
PS. Where can I see how many shares were bought?

medicine

hero member

Activity: 697

Merit: 501

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 05:39:50 AM

Quote from: medicine on March 20, 2014, 04:51:26 AM

ah you already ordered 15 devices? And the shares you are selling are for those devices? Or will you be ordering more units as you sell shares?

We ordered more that 15 (that more was already payed)

This GB 15 devices left for pay by the investors

ok just let me double check because your English isn't clear. The devices you are selling shares for, you have already ordered? Or you will order more after investors buy shares?
Thanks

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: medicine on March 20, 2014, 04:51:26 AM

ah you already ordered 15 devices? And the shares you are selling are for those devices? Or will you be ordering more units as you sell shares?

We ordered more that 15 (that more was already paid)

This GB 15 devices left for pay by the investors

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: jk_14 on March 20, 2014, 04:49:17 AM

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 04:43:42 AM

We will host that much devices as much interest we have (for now we have 15 devices preordered)

Yes, I forget mention about VAT (thanks for reminder).
Because we are registered EU company mentioned device cost is final (VAT is included)

ok,
and what scrypt coin will be mined (always LTC or best profit) and where ?

Best profit -> LTC,
Where -> will be announced for investors (poll with auto income split by shares)

medicine

hero member

Activity: 697

Merit: 501

ah you already ordered 15 devices? And the shares you are selling are for those devices? Or will you be ordering more units as you sell shares?

jk_14

legendary

Activity: 1292

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Felipeo on March 20, 2014, 04:43:42 AM

We will host that much devices as much interest we have (for now we have 15 devices preordered)

Yes, I forget mention about VAT (thanks for reminder).
Because we are registered EU company mentioned device cost is final (VAT is included)

ok,
and what scrypt coin will be mined (always LTC or best profit) and where ?

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: jk_14 on March 20, 2014, 04:09:29 AM

Hi,

Do you plan to host only one Titan or more? (in case of success this GB)

(I understand that VAT refund issue is on your company side)

Regards
JK (Jeden Krajan

)

We will host that much devices as much interest we have (for now we have 15 devices preordered)

Yes, I forget mention about VAT (thanks for reminder).
Because we are registered EU company mentioned device cost is final (VAT is included)

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: medicine on March 20, 2014, 02:24:41 AM

Sounds cool. I am interested. How long will you continue to host the rigs after delivery? I assume your hosting service covers the electricity costs?
I will PM later when I'm off work.

Quote

9. Pricing

...

C: Titan devices will expand our BITfarm Mining Operation and we will mine 24/7 like now, when mining will be not profitable anymore, we will attempt to sell the miners or find another use for them. Any proceeds thereof will be distributed as dividend.

We believe the gear should be able to run 24 months, but since there are no working devices yet we simply don’t know. In case of hardware failure we will try to repair or replace the machine. Any costs involved will be deducted from payment as costs.

Like in OP - 24 month or when mining will be not profitable anymore.

Yes, our hosting services covers all costs ( electricity, up link and maintenance)
Device will be just plug, in our stable running infrastructure with UPS and fail over link.

Felipeo

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 262

EOSABC

Quote from: vleroybrown on March 19, 2014, 07:12:00 PM

Wont KNC be offering hosted hashes like cex.io in the massive DataCenter they are building?
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/02/06/bitcoin-miners-building-10-megawatt-data-center-sweden/

We don't know (they don't inform about hosting possibility).
Like I write in OP we run mining operation with hosting and want expand it by scrypt devices - KnC looks most promising on market right now

jk_14

legendary

Activity: 1292

Merit: 1000

Hi,

Do you plan to host only one Titan or more? (in case of success this GB)

(I understand that VAT refund issue is on your company side)

Regards
JK (Jeden Krajan

)

medicine

hero member

Activity: 697

Merit: 501

Sounds cool. I am interested. How long will you continue to host the rigs after delivery? I assume your hosting service covers the electricity costs?
I will PM later when I'm off work.

vleroybrown

hero member

Activity: 1223

Merit: 506

This is who we are.

Wont KNC be offering hosted hashes like cex.io in the massive DataCenter they are building?
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2014/02/06/bitcoin-miners-building-10-megawatt-data-center-sweden/

pajak666

hero member

Activity: 746

Merit: 502

Looking for advertising deal

Continuation of ourprevious GB with hosting.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2714038
Running for over 7 months

Topic: [CLOSED] [EU-PL] KnC Titan - 100 Mh/s LTC Miner (100 shares per unit) (Read 5435 times)