Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 25. (Read 316434 times)

That's the statement of an idiot, just shut up. Regardless if I or anybody else has shares, did have them or wants to hold them in the future, valid criticism of what's going on with SD's current shambles of management is justified. What do you possibly have to gain from white knighting an issue you clearly have no understanding the context of. You can say rape is bad without having ever raped, been raped or known anyone who has. Just as you can say SD is acting badly without it really affecting you.

The people who got out when they did (for reasons far more varied than just the emerging display of poor business practice) did so because of whatever reasons they did. The people still with shares, have them because they believe SD still holds a very powerful position in the btc world, and if they actually were to use that leverage that they hold properly, Satoshi Dice could become the great thing it once was. It's like SD was the first living cell. Then time passed and all these other things evolved to a degree from it... You can't say that SD is still the best because it was first and therefor it doesn't need to improve or match the multi-celled organisms to compete.

On a side note, does anybody know what level or field of education Erik is in / has attained? We can rule out Business, CS/I.T and Communication for sure.

Sigh, I used to see him in such a good light..Thinking he was a great free market, libertarian-esqe thinker, no he's almost become one of the villains.

If you don't like what he is doing, sell your shares. The people that truly don't like getting jerked around if they so felt that way, did so a long time ago.

Some understanding from your side might be helpful here.  Shares were dumped at a bad time for shareholders, and people who invested during that time lost a great deal of opportunity cost; incidentally, that value was transferred to you, in a way, due to timing.  Additionally, there's been no attempt to even pretend you want to redeem shareholders.  Instead you're apparently asking for sympathy, poorly: "I have thousands of personal BTC [...]."  Really?  I'm told running a business is hard, but I'm not going to weep.  In fact, I (as a shareholder) feel like you used me as a cash grab, intentionally or not, for the sin of believing in you.

Holy shit, you reply within a little over 12 hours to ass kissing, yet still takes weeks to answer any questions (or give your PR the information to do so) ..And when you do 'answer' them, it's avoidant missing the point entirely or saying you'll answer later. What gives?

As Zebulon said, perhaps the tone of my (I strongly disagree with the substance part) has been increasingly 'out of line'. But please, if you will, refer back to where I made the original posts of the same few matters that I have been waiting for the addressal of. If all you or your PR are willing to inform about is generic half-truths and time biders  I'm afraid to expect anything different of escalating irritation with you and your business practices would be naive.

Well-reasoned, well-written commentary. Thank you for your comments Zebulon.

I think that a lot of Erik's points are good ones, and I certainly think that the tone, if not the substance, of a lot of the questions/criticisms on this board are out of line.  People can demand that SD take a more "mainstream" or "professional" approach to shareholder relations if they are unwilling to act in a courteous and "professional" manner as investors (who do not traditionally get to flame corporate CEOs directly in message boards).

That said, while obviously the exchange rate change made a huge difference, it is disingenuous to keep highlighting the 10x number with regards to valuation and dividends.  If this were the primary factor at play, then when the price dropped back down to 5x of what it was in February, then theoretically share price should have doubled from what it was at the peak of the exchange rate, which isn't what happened.

While I totally agree that both gamblers and investors still considering their decisions based on USD values rather than the BTC denominations of the bets/shares played a part in driving the price down, it's definitely only half of the story, as evidenced by the fact that there is not an inverse relationship between share value in BTC and BTC value in USD.  While share values dropped as BTC value rose, when BTC value fell, so did share price.  They are closer to non-correlated than negatively correlated.

Still holding my shares, and still interested to see what the future holds for SD, but let's make sure we are all thinking rationally about this.  Frankly, I think that Erik (thanks, Erik) has done a pretty good job of resisting the urge to get down in the muck with the trolls, for a guy whose job is not really PR.  Everyone, disgruntled investors especially, needs to realize that this isn't the NYSE.  We weren't buying into an established company, we were investing in what was essentially a start-up, and that can often mean taking losses for months or even a year or two before seeing profits.  If you are that risk-averse, or only interested in short-term gains, you shouldn't be in any Bitcoin company stocks most likely.

Oh looky, pedestrian antipositivism. You'll do exceptionally well in Bitcoin, for any values of well that equal amusing.

Hi Erik,

I'm sorry for all the crap you are getting from people. That must be frustrating for you.

I sometimes feel embarrassed by what I read here and am using the ignore button more and more.

I don't think you need to treat people better as they treat you. Shareholder or not.

I realize the great value you offer in so many ways to Satoshi Dice shareholders, players, and the bitcoin economy.

Thank you so much

So you joined last month and things are already obvious to "us", by which us you denote you and all the mice in your pocket(s)?

Try reading what I said again, this time coming from a place of "this person is probably a lot smarter than me and certainly better informed" rather than coming from your current "I imagine this person's regard of me isn't as high as my own and therefore measures must be urgently taken!". The results may astound you.

This is precisely the problem with all BTC denominated assets, as it can trip up even sophisticated investors who aren't familiar with currency risk. You might head off some of the criticism if you included reference currency statistics in footnotes to the monthly reports. I realize that including fiat based statistics might raise ideological objections, but the fact is, SD is not really a pure BTC play because betting is highly influenced by exchange rates.

Adding more frequent updates about progress toward the new site design and features would probably also reassure investors that the captain is still at the helm. The single post you made above is more forthright and reassuring than anything put out by the various PR agents involved.

For me, SD is a buy at these prices, but there is room for improvement with regard to shareholder communication.

Perhaps it is your "limited experience," or perhaps your spinning and dissembling have reached new levels of absurdity.

Of course price is considered when making ANY investment; it's integral to even the most basic calculations related to expected return on capital, such as net present value or internal rate of return. You must have started eavesdropping too late in those conversations you overheard because these analyses are done prior to making decisions about how to allocate capital.

It's painfully obvious to all of us lowly forum users, who aren't "actual investors," that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm sure it's standard PR procedure to apologize when you've needlessly and erroneously insulted people evaluating an asset you purport to represent.

You said the original I.T guy had a salary of 100 btc a month, capped at $5000 worth. This is not what correlated with the price. Is the new guy at 10k a month now?

Yes, it's the fault of SD. You can easily average the months fluctuations (or the past months) as long as you're CONSISTENT with how you do it...Not pick one day in the month where you cherry pick a good day to pay.

You could do it as all payments calc'd on the 4th, idgaf. The way you're doing it now is frankly, dumb as shit.

BTC, is what has gained value, you started this up in it's early days, Bitcoin has done well...This is a boat floating on that water.

It's not the share price that is the direct concern, it's the whole handling of the business (From what little you leak about it...But shit you take a lot of probing to get any real answer from...)

So again, I'll ask.
-Has there been any consistency with method of payment calculations, if so what exactly is that. (8th time asked now?)

-Will the 'big announment' be announced this month? Is there even one?

please answer these straightforwardly. It shouldn't need bullet points, colour, bolding and enlarged font... maybe when I get to the 10th ask I'll consider it.

evoorhees, when are you going to distance yourself from that arrogant megalomaniac and pervert aka Mircea Popescu and turn this dipshit's "one stock bazaar" in to a "0 stock bazaar"?

This guys shitty "aura" (LOL!) arrogance and pathological narcissism are not good for your little adventures image.
Honestly. Qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent.

I greatly appreciate all of this, I think its mostly the smaller and inexperienced investors that are being so vocal about their negative feelings. While a lot of bigger and long term investors keep quiet and keep having patience with the new things you are working on. It hasn't even been a year since the IPO! Yet people want to see +30% dividends every single month, otherwise they get irritated. I can understand them, it must be very hard to invest like that indeed!

Keep up the good work Erik!

Ahhhh early February... you mean right before BTC went up 10x?

This is a question to shareholders who are very critical of me. Do you realize that when the BTC exchange rate goes up 10x, it means site earnings measured in USD must go up 10x as well in order to maintain the same share price?

All else equal, the fact that the exchange rate went up 10x and the site earnings in BTC did not drop to 1/10th means the site is growing in real terms. The fact that such extreme BTC appreciation makes it nearly impossible for nominal share price to increase is unfortunate, but is this the fault of SD?  

You do realize that if measured in a more stable store of value like USD or gold, SD's earnings have consistently increased over time, despite hordes of competitors, despite PR smear campaigns, and despite now a US blockage.

I understand people are upset because they haven't seen any visible movement (no new site, new features, etc.), and this is reasonable criticism that will only be put to rest once you see the new site. However, increasing site earnings by 10x over the course of 2-3 months in tandem with the exchange rate is an impossible task.

The USD-measured valuation of the shares at IPO was reasonable, and the USD-measured valuation of the shares today is reasonable. Indeed, the USD-measured valuation of the shares since IPO has increased, not decreased. Yet... the BTC exchange rate went up 10x and so the nominal share price is down, and this is what people see, unfortunately.

What I'm saying is, I think the criticism here is out of hand. The site is growing, it has avoided hacks of all shapes and sizes, it has navigated legal waters that threaten its very existence, it has maintained its position despite throngs of competitors, and it has done all of this with extremely low overhead.

I do not take a salary from SD. I am paid dividends per share like every other shareholder here, and yet I front all money for development, I have thousands of personal BTC on zero-interest loan to SD, at risk every day, to provide depth for SD's betting pool which shareholders receive the benefit of for free. I've paid significant legal expense out of pocket, for which SD shareholders receives direct benefit for free.  Still, some shareholders seem to think I've "shitted on them" because the share price hasn't increased nominally along with a 10x exchange rate increase. Tough crowd.

I'm not asking for people to be happy with the fact that the nominal share price has fallen. I'm simply asking for people to consider the context in which this has occurred - crucially, a 10x increase in the exchange rate.

I don't know what you mean by "arbitrarily calculating payments."  I explained how I calculate them. On the day that the bill is paid, I use the current BTC exchange rate. For each expense listed, I mentioned the date and if USD then I mentioned the exchange rate used on that day. What's complicated about that?

lol, oh yea. And if you don't get ignored you'll get criticized by obnoxious know it alls, who actually argue like three year olds. Nothing supporting their counter statements.

...


So Erik, the comments in the report appear to suggest you pick a set date/time and pay the month wages in full then. This does notmatch any other payment, and as I suspected proves to show you're gaming the payments with an unjust bias...While also being very difficult to even get a comment on that..Why so evasive? If you're going to shit on us, at least don't tell us it's chocolate.

So are you willing to confirm that you have in fact been, arbitrarily calculating payments?

On another note...Whens the 'Big news' going to be announced. You said at the end of the month, not the start of the next. Can you not keep your word even once!?

Great counter, thanks. I'd just like to see the perception of SD itself look more like a business with a steady revenue stream, rather than a gambler itself. I think you're right - the long-term key is volume. Nonetheless, it does seem that SDice might be due for a good optimization.

The model here is to deliver long term value, not to cater to the Ponzi crowd.

Weekly dividends would increase the apparent variance not reduce it.

In terms of reducing the variance in general there's a few ways to do it :

1.  Increase the house edge.  Can't see this being a flyer.  A fairly low house edge is one of the best means SD has to make it hard for significant competition to arise.
2.  Reduce max bet size (variance is much lower on 100 bets of 1 BTC than 1 bet of 100 BTC).  This isn't viable for very similar reasons.  People who want to make a 100 BTC bet won't settle for making 100 1 BTC bets.
3.  Remove the higher-odds wagers.  Not a good idea - if SD doesn't provide them, other sites will.

Which leaves the ONLY viable way to reduce variance without losing market share - increase volume.  That's what efforts need to be focussed on, not analysis to establish very basic facts already known (e.g. to minimise variance you'd ony allow bets of exactly the same size on a single bet type).  You have work within the range of what those betting actually want - and, unfortunately for SD, people don't want to bet a fixed amount on a single bet.  They want to be able to try to design variations of Martingale and other betting systems.  Whilst none of those systems can work some DO add a lot of variance.  Variance is the price the house has to pay to get people to wager on an unfair game (by which I mean no more than a game where one party has an edge).  You beat variance with volume - and over the long-term - not by driving away customers to try to avoid short-term losses.