Gratz Erik and others involved (unfortunately not me).
The outcome is amazingly good, you're always going to have haters unfortunately (even if you cure all cancer/aids/world hunger, etc), you will still have haters.
Not to be a biatch, but people should look outside their box and see what happens in the real world and then look at what Erik's done, and realise he's been damn great about it.
Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 9. (Read 316363 times)
July 18, 2013, 04:52:21 AM
July 18, 2013, 04:50:51 AM
I highly value and respect the trust you have placed in me, and I hope this outcome reciprocates that respect.
It is important to keep in mind that, since the IPO, 73865 satoshi per share has been paid out - a 23% return for the first block of shares. All IPO shares will have at least broken even with this sale.
I can't imagine the sale was particularly easy to push through, so this is an impressive result overall. Considering the tight spot that SD has found itself in recently, the outcome is reasonably equitable.
For those who profited, bravo. To those who lost, know that we all have at some point - learn and move on with that knowledge; you'll be that much better in future dealings. I am glad to have witnessed another chapter in the Bitcoin saga come to a close.
Especially seeing how this'd be the first happy end in history.
Love how what has ended up as one of the biggest scams in bitcoin history, ends up with half the people applauding and saying 'well done'.
Love how when people act honestly, follow and even exceed the requirements of mutually agreed contracts, and take care of investors above themselves, there are still internet trolls to call it a scam.
If there weren't, would't you suspect you're on the wrong Internet?
July 18, 2013, 04:09:42 AM
Congrats 
July 18, 2013, 03:59:14 AM
Do you understand what the purpose of a numeraire is? Bitcoin is a horrible numeraire because, as stated earlier, the capital pools are so limited and the extreme volatility. Bitcoin is nowhere near being developed enough as a monetary instrument to be using it reliably as a numeraire. There is no other instrument comparable to the USD's or EUR's depth of capital pools.
Using USD or EUR as a base presentation currency for investments that operate only in crypto is not very difficult; just look at IAS 1. There are plenty of reasons people may invest in SD, mining operations, etc. instead of Bitcoin and that is because of the potential returns when using a solid numeriare like USD or EUR.
Using USD or EUR as a base presentation currency for investments that operate only in crypto is not very difficult; just look at IAS 1. There are plenty of reasons people may invest in SD, mining operations, etc. instead of Bitcoin and that is because of the potential returns when using a solid numeriare like USD or EUR.
I'm not saying that people didn't lose. I'm confused, are you saying that people who invested in Satoshi Dice expected/hoped to get a certain return in USD, despite the obvious volatility of bitcoin? Or are you just observing that if someone bought bitcoins with USD to purchase Satoshi Dice shares within a certain range of dates that would net them a loss in terms of USD.
I just don't see how someone could have invested in Satoshi Dice without realizing that their USD profits would be impacted by bitcoins' volatility.
I understand how people could invest in certain businesses/industries related to bitcoin and expecting return in USD. I also realize that depending on the business/industry they choose their profits with be impacted by volatility.
Edit : The point I'm trying to make is that the volatility of bitcoin has an effect on whether or not investing in Satoshi Dice was a good idea in the end. (this of course depends on how/when/at what price people acquired their bitcoin to invest in Satoshi Dice. However just because bitcoin is volatile does not mean that Erik has wronged anyone by forcing this buyback.
July 18, 2013, 03:23:01 AM
Why would people use USD as the numeraire for an investment in a service whose website cannot even be accessed from the United States? Why would people use Fiat as the numeraire for a website that only operates in crypto?
Why would people invest in Satoshi Dice when they cannot appreciate the volatility of bitcoin? The market forgives no one.
Why would people invest in Satoshi Dice when they cannot appreciate the volatility of bitcoin? The market forgives no one.
Do you understand what the purpose of a numeraire is? Bitcoin is a horrible numeraire because, as stated earlier, the capital pools are so limited and the extreme volatility. Bitcoin is nowhere near being developed enough as a monetary instrument to be using it reliably as a numeraire. There is no other instrument comparable to the USD's or EUR's depth of capital pools.
Using USD or EUR as a base presentation currency for investments that operate only in crypto is not very difficult; just look at IAS 1. There are plenty of reasons people may invest in SD, mining operations, etc. instead of Bitcoin and that is because of the potential returns when using a solid numeriare like USD or EUR.
July 18, 2013, 03:10:47 AM
What exactly was the point of the whole IPO then? No one would have put a penny into it if they knew this would be the result. At least admit that it was a total failure for everyone but yourself.
If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.
My god you are a sociopath.
SatoshiDice IPOed at 0.0032/0.0034/0.0037 per share
0.00073865 BTC per share where paid. 0.0035 will be paid for for the sale of SD.
0.0035 + 0.00073865 = 0.00423865 BTC per share returned vs IPO price. I fail to see the issue here. It was a great IPO and the stock performed well. Sure, it wasn't as good as it could have, but quite decent regardless. I sure would put a pretty penny into such an IPO again even if I knew it would be sold and shares bought back later.
July 18, 2013, 02:59:20 AM
Why would Erik have sold bitcoins while Satoshi Dice was/is operating?
I fail to see why that question is relevant to anything we are discussing.
see
From an investor's point of view I do not think it is very reasonable to use the BTC as numeraire due to its lack of capital pools and incredible volatility. Pretty much anyone who bought between April 2012 and March 2013 [would include all IPO investors and even many non-IPO investors] who have held for the long-term have had tremendous returns using the USD as numeraire.
Why would people use USD as the numeraire for an investment in a service whose website cannot even be accessed from the United States? Why would people use Fiat as the numeraire for a website that only operates in crypto?
Why would people invest in Satoshi Dice when they cannot appreciate the volatility of bitcoin? The market forgives no one.
July 18, 2013, 02:44:08 AM
Why would Erik have sold bitcoins while Satoshi Dice was/is operating?
I fail to see why that question is relevant to anything we are discussing.
July 18, 2013, 02:34:51 AM
What exactly was the point of the whole IPO then? No one would have put a penny into it if they knew this would be the result. At least admit that it was a total failure for everyone but yourself.
If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.
My god you are a sociopath.
Really now? He brought a profit to his investors. I'm sure some of them would liked to have stayed involved with Satoshi Dice, but it seems that he was sure to outline that he could pull shit like this off at his own discretion.
From an investor's point of view I do not think it is very reasonable to use the BTC as numeraire due to its lack of capital pools and incredible volatility. Pretty much anyone who bought between April 2012 and March 2013 [would include all IPO investors and even many non-IPO investors] who have held for the long-term have had tremendous returns using the USD as numeraire.
Why would Erik have sold bitcoins while Satoshi Dice was/is operating? If he had been regularly selling profits, then buying back shares at this rate would likely not be possible to begin with.
July 18, 2013, 02:21:28 AM
What exactly was the point of the whole IPO then? No one would have put a penny into it if they knew this would be the result. At least admit that it was a total failure for everyone but yourself.
If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.
My god you are a sociopath.
Really now? He brought a profit to his investors. I'm sure some of them would liked to have stayed involved with Satoshi Dice, but it seems that he was sure to outline that he could pull shit like this off at his own discretion.
From an investor's point of view I do not think it is very reasonable to use the BTC as numeraire due to its lack of capital pools and incredible volatility. Pretty much anyone who bought between April 2012 and March 2013 [would include all IPO investors and even many non-IPO investors] who have held for the long-term have had tremendous returns using the USD as numeraire.
July 18, 2013, 01:58:20 AM
What exactly was the point of the whole IPO then? No one would have put a penny into it if they knew this would be the result. At least admit that it was a total failure for everyone but yourself.
If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.
My god you are a sociopath.
Really now? He brought a profit to his investors. I'm sure some of them would liked to have stayed involved with Satoshi Dice, but it seems that he was sure to outline that he could pull shit like this off at his own discretion.
July 18, 2013, 01:38:11 AM
Reading this was a rollercoaster ride, especially at the 0.00126 BTC per share part 
It's a bit like if I wanted to kick you in the stomach, and I start by telling you instead I'm going to kick you in the balls, then you're relatively happy by the time it happens.
(in case it's not clear, that's a joke, I am not threatening mr. fortress with violence :p)
July 18, 2013, 01:31:06 AM
Reading this was a rollercoaster ride, especially at the 0.00126 BTC per share part
July 18, 2013, 01:28:03 AM
What exactly was the point of the whole IPO then? No one would have put a penny into it if they knew this would be the result. At least admit that it was a total failure for everyone but yourself.
If getting investors a 20% real return in 9 months and getting their original capital back despite 9x exchange rate increase is a "total failure" then I hope to have many more.
My god you are a sociopath.
July 18, 2013, 12:58:50 AM
Dear Asset Holders,
I have some very important news to share with you. Some of you will be pleased, and some upset, but I believe this to be a solid, desirable, and fair outcome for those who have put their trust in S.DICE.
SatoshiDice is being sold, in full, to a new company that will take over all ownership, operations, and management. The total sale price is 126,315 BTC, or 0.00126315 BTC per share.
According to the MPEX Agreement, MPEX holders are entitled to receive 0.00126315 BTC per share, alongside other private owners. However, for the good of the MPEX holders and for the sake of the general Bitcoin community, which the site always has intended to support and nurture, SatoshiDice has arranged to pay MPEX holders an additional .00223685 BTC per share bringing the total to 0.0035 BTC per share.
This is a 277% premium over the sale price and a roughly 175% premium over the current market price of S.DICE shares on MPEX. It is also roughly equivalent to the average price of S.DICE shares at IPO (though BTC was $12 back then, and over $90 today).
Note that the MPEX order book for S.DICE was cancelled just prior to this announcement in order to prevent anyone from taking advantage of standing orders.
While I know some S.DICE owners intended to hold for a long time, and will thus be dismayed by the buyout, it is my sincere hope that this compensation level will be amenable. It is substantially higher than the contract mandates, and it is almost 3x higher than all private owners are being paid. It has not been easy to negotiate to this level, but I believe it is the right thing to do.
Further, there will be an additional small amount added to compensate for the previously deducted costs of the new website development, as it did not feel right for S.DICE holders to have paid for development of a site they won’t have a stake in after the buyout.
This letter is being posted roughly 24 hours prior to the payout, at which point MPEX holders will receive .0035 BTC per share plus the small additional amounts mentioned above. MPEX will then de-list the asset and the S.DICE MPEX Agreement will be satisfied. The payout will occur in roughly 20 increments over a period of several hours and will arrive in S.DICE holders’ accounts (in the same manner as dividends). All passthrough operators are responsible for their own assets and customers, obviously.
As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company. Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.
I highly value and respect the trust you have placed in me, and I hope this outcome reciprocates that respect.
Kind regards,
-Erik Voorhees
I have some very important news to share with you. Some of you will be pleased, and some upset, but I believe this to be a solid, desirable, and fair outcome for those who have put their trust in S.DICE.
SatoshiDice is being sold, in full, to a new company that will take over all ownership, operations, and management. The total sale price is 126,315 BTC, or 0.00126315 BTC per share.
According to the MPEX Agreement, MPEX holders are entitled to receive 0.00126315 BTC per share, alongside other private owners. However, for the good of the MPEX holders and for the sake of the general Bitcoin community, which the site always has intended to support and nurture, SatoshiDice has arranged to pay MPEX holders an additional .00223685 BTC per share bringing the total to 0.0035 BTC per share.
This is a 277% premium over the sale price and a roughly 175% premium over the current market price of S.DICE shares on MPEX. It is also roughly equivalent to the average price of S.DICE shares at IPO (though BTC was $12 back then, and over $90 today).
Note that the MPEX order book for S.DICE was cancelled just prior to this announcement in order to prevent anyone from taking advantage of standing orders.
While I know some S.DICE owners intended to hold for a long time, and will thus be dismayed by the buyout, it is my sincere hope that this compensation level will be amenable. It is substantially higher than the contract mandates, and it is almost 3x higher than all private owners are being paid. It has not been easy to negotiate to this level, but I believe it is the right thing to do.
Further, there will be an additional small amount added to compensate for the previously deducted costs of the new website development, as it did not feel right for S.DICE holders to have paid for development of a site they won’t have a stake in after the buyout.
This letter is being posted roughly 24 hours prior to the payout, at which point MPEX holders will receive .0035 BTC per share plus the small additional amounts mentioned above. MPEX will then de-list the asset and the S.DICE MPEX Agreement will be satisfied. The payout will occur in roughly 20 increments over a period of several hours and will arrive in S.DICE holders’ accounts (in the same manner as dividends). All passthrough operators are responsible for their own assets and customers, obviously.
As per the S.DICE agreement, asset owners do not have voting rights to effect operational changes, nor any rights to negotiate nor block a full buyout of the company. Nevertheless, SatoshiDice has kept the interests of the asset holders in mind throughout this negotiation process, and has intended to treat these holders fairly, above and beyond contractual obligations.
I highly value and respect the trust you have placed in me, and I hope this outcome reciprocates that respect.
Kind regards,
-Erik Voorhees
Erik you can be proud of your part in Bitcoin's history so far. It was an exciting ride and I guess this is the right thing to do. Rock on!
July 18, 2013, 12:43:57 AM
winklevoss twins strike again!
July 18, 2013, 12:31:20 AM
How is the transfer of operations to proceed? What is the timeline on the transition of operations? Will the site remain functional through the transition, with advance notice on rate changes and address changes? If the site is to be taken offline, how will the inevitable bets made to the S.Dice addresses be handled? (I imagine if the site did go offline, there would be some functionality to simply return the bet, minus whatever transaction fee is incurred).
Good question - Site operations will not be affected during the transition in any way. No downtime will occur.
I guess this is a PR question who bought satoshidice or will there be an announcement on this at a later time.
This is private for now. It may be revealed in the future, however.
Roger that thanks for replying
(It can be a fun guessing game ^_^)
July 18, 2013, 12:30:45 AM
How is the transfer of operations to proceed? What is the timeline on the transition of operations? Will the site remain functional through the transition, with advance notice on rate changes and address changes? If the site is to be taken offline, how will the inevitable bets made to the S.Dice addresses be handled? (I imagine if the site did go offline, there would be some functionality to simply return the bet, minus whatever transaction fee is incurred).
Good question - Site operations will not be affected during the transition in any way. No downtime will occur.
I guess this is a PR question who bought satoshidice or will there be an announcement on this at a later time.
This is private for now. It may be revealed in the future, however.
July 18, 2013, 12:26:49 AM
Congratulations to SDICE and Erik! I recall Erik looking for a buyer for a long time, seems all shareholders are going to get a nice bonus. Curious to hear more about this in the coming days.
Invest that new money wisely!
Invest that new money wisely!
July 18, 2013, 12:15:37 AM
How is the transfer of operations to proceed? What is the timeline on the transition of operations? Will the site remain functional through the transition, with advance notice on rate changes and address changes? If the site is to be taken offline, how will the inevitable bets made to the S.Dice addresses be handled? (I imagine if the site did go offline, there would be some functionality to simply return the bet, minus whatever transaction fee is incurred).
Good question - Site operations will not be affected during the transition in any way. No downtime will occur.
I guess this is a PR question who bought satoshidice or will there be an announcement on this at a later time.
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