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Topic: Closed Thread - page 137. (Read 677703 times)

member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
January 02, 2015, 06:55:49 AM
Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.

I sent You PM.

As I said earlier, according to our calculations possibility of manipulation will disappear automatically with the growth of the network and capitalization.
If You send 10,000 (fee is 35) and gain highest PoA weight then You can get a profit only when the next block will be 35+1, - respectively, next transaction should be 10000+1. But it can be 10, 100 or even 1, - so then You get less than You give. In this case Your unnecessary transactions will bring You nothing but losses Smiley Now, on the initial stage of network forger's number is small and there is a high percentage of large transactions 490,000+ so You can get some profit sending money between own accounts, but the overall low level of capitalization will make it low.
So I repeat again: in the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount. Even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.

In the February release we try to make the PoA coefficient as open and transparent as possible.
rlh
hero member
Activity: 804
Merit: 1004
January 02, 2015, 05:22:32 AM
Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.

NodeClub/RealSilk, if you wouldn't mind, please PM me the mathematics of the algo.

A while ago I was working on a similar but rather sophisticated project.  The idea of PoA is novel but, IMHO, can be easy to manipulate.  Of course, your take on the solution could have solved many of the problems that I discovered.  Regardless, I think I could make a few suggestions that could improve the algo if I had a reasonable understanding of the process.

I understand that you guys are wanting to stay quiet on the details for fear of copycats but check my account-- I'm well invested in NODE, so it's success is quite important to me.

Thank you.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
January 02, 2015, 05:19:54 AM
PoA as a concept is ok.
The form that has should perhaps modified.
And what I said above - it seems to me to be a bug.

I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?

Today's algorithm isn't reset it immediately - if the weight of your activity was much higher than the others than works principle of "waves" - the bigger stone thrown into the water, the greater ripple You will get. In the future, we will change the coefficients and probably we will remove this feature, but to improve algorithm we need 2 things: 1) unit collecting statistics we are currently developing, and 2) Your activity to collect representative statistics.
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1012
January 02, 2015, 05:07:34 AM
Glad to see that 2 accounts can forge all blocks. that seems balanced and fair.
sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
January 02, 2015, 12:51:47 AM
PoA as a concept is ok.
The form that has should perhaps modified.
And what I said above - it seems to me to be a bug.

I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
January 01, 2015, 10:41:24 PM
Hence no one is keeping wallets open anymore.

Then it would be a big mistake, I have to say Smiley

Of course, excellence has no limits, but to date PoA algorithm has no alternative in terms of promoting the usage instead of promoting the crowdselling (PoW) or accumulation (PoS). This algorithm is the future - it will exist in improved form even in times when you'll forget the name of 90% of the existing coins Smiley

We are always working to improve the coefficients but the essence of PoA remains unchanged.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
January 01, 2015, 10:28:26 PM
So for now it is not POA, but POFA? Huh
^Proof of Fake Activity^  Grin

 Grin
Do You know what is common between the activity on the forum and activity in bed? In both places it's impossible to simulate it long Grin
This rule also applies fully to Node. I've to say You have a wonderful sense of humor, but if you read the topic a little closer you would see that this issue was discussed a couple of pages back.

Hello.
Tell please, there is a way of mining NODE?

node is POA (proof of activity)

speaking of, i noticed every other block is being forged by the same account. how is this possible? does more computing power effect odds of generating a block?

We checked it out, everything is OК. The Wallet is very active in the use of the network - it makes many transactions and generates many blocks respectively. It is fair.

http://nodemoney.com:19775/#/explorer/transaction/8972433069625705159

Is it possible to fake activity by sending coins to your own multiple wallets etc... ? Seems kind of broken to me

From a mathematical point of view, it can be profitable only in the initial stage of network activity and capitalization when there is a distance between weighted average size of large and small transactions and market value isn't high. Financial liability for the transaction will increase inevitably in proportion to the growth of capitalization and network activity. In addition, even now there is enough around 15-20 small & middle transactions per hour to overlap this possibility.
In the future this possibility will disappear automatically with increasing of total number of transactions and a decreasing in the average transaction amount.

legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
January 01, 2015, 06:56:15 PM
So for now it is not POA, but POFA? Huh
^Proof of Fake Activity^  Grin
Hence no one is keeping wallets open anymore.
legendary
Activity: 1367
Merit: 1000
January 01, 2015, 06:15:20 PM
So for now it is not POA, but POFA? Huh
^Proof of Fake Activity^  Grin
rlh
hero member
Activity: 804
Merit: 1004
January 01, 2015, 09:54:37 AM
I own the 9689 account.  Been steadily withdrawing from Bter for days.  So, I have a sizable balance and I have numerous (in bound) transactions on a node I never shut down.

There were a few days where I was hitting every other block.  I had assumed it was because I hadn't had to restart my node for near a week and I had millions of Nodes.  I don't mind if the algo needs to be tweaked but there is a chance that there is another whale, or two, whose just taking profits as they are available.  My hunch is that only 5-7% of all node is forging, at most and possibly as low as 3%.  It's not taking much to capture blocks.  In the future, with the assumed success of Node, I recommend being careful with current tweaks.  If 25-35% of Node ends up forging, you might hinder the network if you make tweaks for the current usecase of so few forgers.

Unrelated,  is their a roadmap of tasks that need to be completed before going open source?  I have no interest to fork, but I've been digging into crypto code for years.  It's always fun to see new projects and I've had little experience with Node.js.  I'd really like to check out this project when it's posted to Github. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 250
January 01, 2015, 09:25:09 AM
9 / 25 last transactions today forged  1855
9 / 25 last transactions today forged  9689

= 18 / 25 transactions goes to this two adresses and almost every day the same apportionment.

So this means from 1200 stakeholders only 2 are online / forging more than 1 transaction a day? Or better said this 2 accounts get 2/3 every day....  Strange.....

These accounts make transactions http://nodemoney.com:19775/#/explorer/transaction/
but we will revise the algorithm POA
legendary
Activity: 1310
Merit: 1000
January 01, 2015, 09:09:02 AM
9 / 25 last transactions today forged  1855
9 / 25 last transactions today forged  9689

= 18 / 25 transactions goes to this two adresses and almost every day the same apportionment.

So this means from 1200 stakeholders only 2 are online / forging more than 1 transaction a day? Or better said this 2 accounts get 2/3 every day....  Strange.....
sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
January 01, 2015, 09:02:26 AM
And I noticed what I wrote above related to forging.
sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
January 01, 2015, 09:00:56 AM
Are you 1855xxxxxxxxx ?? Last 2-3 days  forging seems strange to me, too. I send coins but only 1855xxxxxxxxxxxxx and 9689xxxxxxxxxxxx  are forging!?!

No, I'm not. Nor 1855xxxxxxxxx, nor 9689xxxxxxxxxxxx.
But really, someone take advantage of forging.
Has multiple accounts and send frequently between them.
The other day I tried to do that just to get my fee from some of my withdrawals from bter.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 1310
Merit: 1000
January 01, 2015, 08:51:59 AM
Are you 1855xxxxxxxxx ?? Last 2-3 days  forging seems strange to me, too. I send coins but only 1855xxxxxxxxxxxxx and 9689xxxxxxxxxxxx  are forging!?!
sr. member
Activity: 450
Merit: 250
January 01, 2015, 08:44:55 AM
I'm at the block x
send 10000 nodes
block x + 1 is forged by someone else, which is normal - I made a transaction so I can not forge
I forged block x + 2, which is somewhat normal - my nodeheight is high
but
without having to make any transaction
I forged further - block x + 4, x + 6, x + 8, ... , which is abnormal - my nodeheight should reset and another with greater nodeheight was supposed to forging.
what's wrong here ? or I misunderstood the mechanism?
rlh
hero member
Activity: 804
Merit: 1004
December 31, 2014, 11:57:45 PM
Put the block explorer in the application which allows you to explore block details and navigate to other accounts in a "Read Only" state.  You've mentioned improved details regarding forging, but I'd still like to mention that's a desirable feature.

It could be cool if there were statistic graphs for both the network and your account.  I'd also tighten up the whole UI because if currently takes up a lpt of space.  Multiple "themes" could be nice, but that's because I prefer high contrast, over light.

You already have a support section.  It would be nice to have a roadmap of future development posted within the client, as well as a change log.

Also, a minor bug is that the size of the inner screen is perpetually larger than the application window on the login screen.  This means there is always a scrollbar and you can scroll the window up or down an inch or so.  I see this on my Mac client and Windows.
hero member
Activity: 531
Merit: 500
December 31, 2014, 11:49:29 PM
Hi guys,

I transferred just 500k+ NODEs to my wallet. But I dont see any button for forging. Is it done automatically or should I something else? Btw , I logged out and entered my wallet after it reached 500k+.

Regards...

you dont have to press anything, forging automatically starts if you have 500k+ coins.

although it would be nice if you could see that you are forging and be able to turn it on and off. Maybe the devs could implement it?

Id love to see things like: forging status, probability of forging etc.

The new version of the client will be released most likely on Tuesday, Jan 6.
Now we are working on improving the UI for the next version where we plan to add some new useful information such as the amount of "forging" money, hot wallets etc. If you have good ideas that you would like to see in UI we will be happy to hear it.
Also, our lead programmer personally oversees the development of some revolutionary additions - a unique system of multi-signature which will allow to have unique and incredibly convenient types of accounts, which have no analogues in the modern banking system. These new types of accounts will be particularly useful for e-commerce, online auctions and even for couples which calculates their budget. This project will be released no earlier than in a Feb-March.


It would be nice to have some btc-eur, btc-usd, usd-eur, ru-eur, ru-yuan conversor. If we want to know the international price of these things would be really interesting to have it. I guess forex or some other should have an api with all this values constatly being updated. As this is gonna be a payment system it would be really good. Just an idea anyway.
And some kind of system where we can see if we are online or offline. And some statistics showing how many times our conection went down and our current amount of points in a format like X Secs + X transactions = Xtotal.
ANd probably some news feed system would be good.. not sure.

My 2 cents.

Happy new Year
member
Activity: 63
Merit: 10
December 31, 2014, 06:26:07 PM
Looks interesting, downloading the blockchain now. I'm up to 825, how high does it go?  I hate leaving currency in exchanges :\

#5784
http://nodemoney.com:19775/
any password (is http, not https)
good luck!

cool, thanks Smiley  basically an online wallet?

You can use the online wallet for safe access to the account, transactions and transfers, but if You want to forging money then You need to download the client 'cause in this case You support the network and the system rewards you for it. This is the essence of PoA.


Thanks for taking the time to PM me all that info- after losing a pretty big chunk of money on slimcoin it's nice to see a new coin with a committed and articulate developer.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
December 31, 2014, 05:57:40 PM
Looks interesting, downloading the blockchain now. I'm up to 825, how high does it go?  I hate leaving currency in exchanges :\

#5784
http://nodemoney.com:19775/
any password (is http, not https)
good luck!

cool, thanks Smiley  basically an online wallet?

You can use the online wallet for safe access to the account, transactions and transfers, but if You want to forging money then You need to download the client 'cause in this case You support the network and the system rewards you for it. This is the essence of PoA.
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