Topic: Coin Join and obfuscating identity, balances, privacy. Is it advisable? - page 2. (Read 453 times)

The problem is that this 'problem' rests with the third parties these coins might interact with and I doubt their policies are clear or fully formed and they might have them dictated to them by governments. It's still early days and everyone's current activities may come to bite them on the botty a long time down the line.

Ideally we'll reach a point where the need for third parties is way lower than it is now but until then either minimise contact with them, assume the worst or pile in now when things aren't set in stone.

@franky1

The origin isn't equal to the use. What about the bitcoins newly mined so? Any address used at least once is considered tainted but since it's all about a correlation between 2 addresses...

... With Coinjoin an observer can only argue there is an X.X% probability that it comes from the tainted address, BUT there is also an XX.xx% probability of no correlation.
It's like a judge saying: We're not 100% sure you're the guilty one, only 99%, but that's okay, you're still going to jail.

What about the privacy-centric cryptocurrencies? Why aren't they delisted from all exchange platforms where KYC/AML is required?.

In my own opinion using WASABI will mean more privacy on your behalf. According to the creator of wasabi, I have read in his tweet that wasabi provides more privacy since according to him the bitcoin blockchain is lacking in privacy. But this privacy is not free, when we use wasabi in exchange for privacy we pay additional transaction fees. In the end is more about making money for wasabi. So I guess if we are just a small holders and we dont engage on illegal activities we dont need wasabi. Instead of earning more we will be paying more.

In addition, you can browse this topic regarding Wasabi:

Wasabi Wallet 1.0 Is Released and the man behind this project, nopara73. And you can follow his official twitter account, https://twitter.com/nopara73

there are still legal issues and developers are not legal experts. when they throw around the word "fungible" they act as if having a fungible currency is some get out of jail fre card. its not.

let me explain
imagine your a basic protestor and want to reeceive anonymous donations so you can buy placards.
imagin you fear prosecution because insighting a protst in a country was a 30day jailterm and being put on a anarcist watchlist for rest of life
but separetely(ill get tio it later) bing paid to murder somone is life in prison

..
ok now then things like coinjoin need a central co-ordinator that receives funds from multiple people wanting to hide thier actions and redistributes it to multiple people wanting to hide their actions

in short. all the funds coinjoin play with are dogdy for multiple possible crimes

so you (A) want donations from pro-protest donators(a)
so someone else(B) is a hitman getting paid by a person that wants someone dead(b)
without coinjoin transactions look like
(a)->(A)
(b)->(B)

with coinjoin
(a)->(B)
(b)->(A)

so ok no on can see that you are getting paid to be a protestor. but what you dont realise is you received funds from someone that wants someon else killed.

why is this a problem.
well fiat(dollars/pounds) are fungible. yet people get their funds frozen, siezed, investigated. and people do go to jail on evidence like showing they received money to kill someone. same with any currency.

again what you dont realise is trying to hide a petty 30day crime could end up with you getting locked up for life for a bigger crime. such as murder or even for just money laundering by just wanting to be anonymous. sometimes its not the petty crime ur trying to hide that hurts you, but the cover up that ends up hurting you more.

coinjoin main stash of funds are not clean funds. so you have no idea what you could b getting yourself involved in. and if arrested its not a simple 'i dunno' that would be accepted it would be 'you recieved it, you spent it, that makes you an accessory of multiple crimes linked to the funds you received.'and ontop of that we also noticed you then used the funds to protest so lets add that crime ontop too

this is why many exchanges. without even investigating exactly what crime fund origins came from. if the funds show a pattern of being related to a money launder/mixer service. the funds are blacklisted.

here is one big funny thought to think about.
gmax helps develop coinjoin.
gmax also helps develop business tools for crypto and is paid by barry silbert (has portfolio of owning exchanges)

which the exchanges do blacklist mixers
these wallets that take in funds and mix and redistribute want innocent people who just want a cup of coffee to use them. not because a mixer is not a crime. not because there is no law. but its so that those receiving coins to do crimes receive clean coins from innocent people. .. the problem with that is innocent people just wanting to buy a lambo end up getting arrested for being linked to money laundering and paying a hitman even if they had no knowledge that their funds taint went to a hitman

fungible does not mean criminals cant get arrested, fungable does not mean innocent people cant be framed for a crime they did not commit. and mixers mean your atleast going to get in trouble for money laundering.
or at very best. if your not prosecuted for a crime you didnt commit. your still going to have to explain why cops knocked at your door, cuffed you and interviewed you about your innocent lambo and how it was funded.
sometimes just bing questioned by cops or just being put on bail while they decide if theres enough evidence scope to take you to court is more shameful then wanting to hide that you bought a lambo

I'm no legal expert either but from some research I don't think you'll be able to prove the origin of BTC when your purchasing from CoinJoin merchants.

The platform and technology was made for privacy issues and a lot of evidence you'd be able to gather up for a court case would likely be dismissed as circumstantial evidence.

The developers have the mindset that they won't face any legal issues so they might as well go full out.

Nice post, didn't learn about the new tech since now.

Thanks for that, although I still don't have all the knowledge needed to properly make an informed decision, I now have a great place to start my research.  Here, have a merit!

Let me quote it for you:


I'm no expert in legal ramifications about it, but as Theymos has pointed out, it would improved a lot of things specially our privacy.

edit: You can read everything here as well, CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world.

BTC bought from exchanges with KYC and AML can provably be traced back to its origins with buyer identity. I'm curious about coin joins such as wasabi. What would the implications of using such a service be if a person ever needed to prove origins of their BTC to a court, tax authority or similar?
What type of privacy does one receive for using such a service? Is it just that the exchange and anyone they've shared KYC info with cannot follow the trail and spending?

I'm rather hesitant to use such a service without knowing the full scope of ramifications that may come with it.
What are the benefits (examples would be great) of using one?
Personally I cannot imagine needing to hide my activities but I would prefer not to be followed all the same.